Any Transhuman morph designer with the inclination could make Xenomorphs using current tech. They'd have to be pods instead (or synthmorphs) but it is definitely manageable. I'd say the main Alien would have a DUR of 40 Unarmed of 70 or 80 Freefall 50 Freerunning 50 Perception 40 Fray 50 Claw Attacks for 1d10 +3 Tail Attack of 2d10 + 3 Bite of 1d10 +3 And make it cause LUC damage when seen.

I wouldn't give them an SV, Kindalas. The fear, suspense, and terror of the Alien movies comes primarily from the fact that in the first movie, the protagonists are all unarmed civilians, living peaceful, sedate, civilian lives free from gruesome things and the unknown, and from danger. They also have basically no equipment, and the xenomorph is very good at using terrain to its advantage and moving unseen. Oh, and the ship has approximately one-eighth as much illumination as it should have had. Now, that was a 1980s vision of the future - the crew of the Nostromo were basically 1980s truckers, or at best, 1980s cargo ship crew. Their technology was, frankly, primitive compared to Eclipse Phase. Now, let's think about the Xenomorph in the context of Eclipse Phase... No, really. Xenomorphs are scary because they're physically much mightier than a human, lurk in dark places, can move very fast via vectors that humans are unused to thinking of (IE, through vents, on ceilings, etc,) and thus they can close quickly to melee range where they're dangerous. But you also have to remember: everyone that a Xenomorph killed in an Aliens movie? Was a Flat. And the soldiers were idiots, being ordered around by a madman. The xenomorph was a big, scary, physically intimidating monster. [IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v323/ShadowDragon8685/Alien%20vs%20Ecl... Big, scary, physically intimidating, and monstrous by comparison to a flat, that is. Transhumanity on the other hand has made things that should terrify a xenomorph. [IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v323/ShadowDragon8685/Alien%20vs%20Ecl... Even a Neo-Gorilla would be a reasonable match for a xenomorph one-on-one. They're bloody strong and durable. Sure, they don't have acid for blood, nor do they have a number of extra natural weapons, so they'd be at a disadvantage naked (but don't count them out, a skilled martial artist could still win,) but they have the advantage of being able to craft augmentations, tools, and armor for themselves. Wearing armor and wielding weapons, this match goes poorly for the alien. And this was probably its best match-up on my list. [IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v323/ShadowDragon8685/Alien%20vs%20Ecl... The Novacrab. As strong as a gorilla, as durable, but gifted with significant natural armor (Remember: Xenomorphs are [i]not[/i] that durable. Their exoskeletons are not that tough,) and possessing natural weapons. This goes poorly for the xenomorph, even fighting naked. The novacrab's claws are easily a match for its own, and the novacrab can go pretty much anywhere the xenomorph can go, including underwater and into the vacuum of space. Its only real hope is its acidic blood here - but, as with the neo-gorilla, the novacrab has the ability to craft for itself arms and armor. Granted that for some inexplicable reason carapace armor does not stack with worn armor (the way a synthmorph's built-in armor does, which is funny,) but the novacrab is still capable of getting better than 11/11 with some fairly common armor layering. And, of course, it can wield [i]guns[/i]. [IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v323/ShadowDragon8685/Alien%20vs%20Ecl... The Takko doesn't look like a great monster at first. But really, it's an eight-armed, thrust-vectoring robotic morph. It's durable, decently armored by default, and it can relatively easily immobilize all of a xenomorph's limbs and still retain plenty of limbs of its own with which to do damage. The Takko can grapple on and just crush the damn thing, or twist its head off. And, being a synthmorph, it can easily upgrade itself to simply unfair levels of WTF. A xenomorph might win a fight with a non-combatant in a Takko. A combatant ego with military armor and integrated weapons will not be a contest. [IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v323/ShadowDragon8685/Alien%20vs%20Ecl... The humble arachnoid, the morph that everybody knows somebody who's sleeved into one. The dockworker, the maintenance unit, the EVA guy. It's strong, heavy metal, and like the Takko - like all synths -, can easily incorporate augs that make this crazy. Again, a xenomorph [i]might[/i] win a fight if a non-combatant, entirely unprepared for melee, is forced to fight it, but it's going to have a hell of a fight on its exoskeletal hands. [IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v323/ShadowDragon8685/Alien%20vs%20Ecl... Here is where the xenomorph starts to lose, [i]badly[/i]. At first glance, the Rover doesn't seem that dangerous. It's not very durable compared to other morphs on this list. But it's heavily armored for a small unit; its small size makes it harder to hit, which is noteworthy. It has thrust-vectoring, so it can fly in microgravity, it's small, which means the xenomorph is incapable of escaping it, while it [i]is[/i] capable of fitting into places the xenomorph can't easily fit into. Most of all, though, it is [i]armed[/i]. A heavy railpistol feeding from a 200-round hopper is going to chew through xenomorphs, plural. Even if it runs out of ammo, the laser can do significant amounts of hurt on Cook mode. Even if the xenomorph gets up close, it has an arm equipped with claws, so the xenomorph can't simply declare an uncontested victory. (Plus, I'd have to give the Rover a bonus to its Fray rolls against melee attacks, simply because a perfect sphere of metal is a bitch and a half to try and damage with the stuff you'd use to rend and tear flesh.) [IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v323/ShadowDragon8685/Alien%20vs%20Ecl... Here's where things go from "bad news" to "brutal" for the xenomorphs. The Diatya is three meters tall, a one-ton, hard-forged industrial [i]wrecking machine[/i]. Unlike Ripley's power loader, it doesn't have any squishy pilot in an unprotected, open cage cockpit that it could theoretically kill to win; it's going to have to try to dig through 100 points of DUR, with a default armor rating of 20/20. If the Daitya has its armor upgraded with the hydrophobic coating that makes liquids slide off, nothing the Xenomorph has is going to hurt this beast. The reverse, however, is not remotely true; the Daitya can, at its liesure, crush or rip apart xenomorphs, and that's only half of its "Disassembly Tools". The others could be such fun devices as plasma cutters, gigantic fucking circular saws, or what-have-you; and that's [i]before[/i] the Diatya gets an upgrade and mounts a flamethrower or a minigun to its arms. It's basically a titan of industry that you could be forgiven for thinking was purpose-built to destroy xenomorphs. [IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v323/ShadowDragon8685/Alien%20vs%20Ecl... This thing is a tank. No, [i]literally[/i], this thing is an armored fighting vehicle on legs piloted by 1d6 transhuman egos. The Fenrir is, quite [i]literally[/i], beyond the xenomorphs. All of them. Granted, its large size makes it difficult for it to pursue xenormorphs into tunnels and the like, but park one of these anywhere you like, and everywhere in its line of sight is its domain. With 32/32 armor, there's no way in hell the xenomorphs are capable of hurting it, and while it may be lacking for melee capability, that won't really matter. At worst, the xenomorph might force the pilot ego to do something silly like roll over to crush it, but far more likely is the many, many articulated weapon mounts simply shredding it before it gets close. Which brings me to the biggest monster transhumanity has to throw at the xenomorphs. [IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v323/ShadowDragon8685/Alien%20vs%20Ecl... You had to know the Reaper was going to top this list. At transhuman size, it can go anywhere the xenomorph can; they can't hide, which they'll want to do. With a default armor rating of 16/16, it's not the most heavily-armored on this list, but still beyond a xenomorph's ability to damage, and that's before upgrades. With four flexible arms equipped with cyberclaws, the Reaper is not lacking in the melee department - indeed, it's on the advantage, but it has something far more important; four articulated weapon mounts. It has 360-degree vision on all of its sensors, which include T-Rays and radar. It has a Speed-boosted nature, so it's faster, too. Xenomorphs can't run from it, they can't hide from it. They can't get clever and sneak above or below, because it sees everywhere, and they can't conceal themselves behind light cover/in vents, because it sees through them. The Reaper will slaughter them with its claws if they get into melee, and if they stay away (or get caught outside melee range,) it has everything in those weapon mounts, which could be anything from a light pistol (hahaha,) to machine guns or plasma rifles. Frankly, xenomorphs just aren't scary compared to a lot of stuff transhumanity has made. Even your everyday Fury with light armor and a few good augs and arms is going to be more than a match for them. Put the Fury in something heavy, like a battlesuit or a maximally-layered heavy armor with all the trimmings, and the xenomorph can't hurt it. So, no. I wouldn't give them a stress value just for seeing them.

well yeah, you can make something effectively similar within the rules. I just meant that I dont know if EP tech can engineer a lifeform that uses molecular acid for blood -- to carry nutrients and remove toxins and do the other things that blood does. I'm pretty sure that EP tech can engineer some organisms from the ground up, but this is a bit exotic even for the kinds of superscience that is littering the EP universe. edit: though I'll concede that if they can make living quartz morphs for venus and whatever crazy nonsense the suryas are made from, maybe acid blood isnt so much of an obstacle.

btw do not take molecular acid too literally. ALL acid is molecular. Hydrochloric acid is HCl a 2 atom molecule, the script writers used the term molecular to make it sound extra potent without actually having to research potent acids and name one specifically.

kindalas wrote:

ShadowDragon8685 wrote:

I wouldn't give them an SV, Kindalas.

Who says I woudn't call for a WILx3 roll when somone meets one of those morphs for the first time?

Would you call for a WILx3 roll the first time they see a novacrab, or a Reaper?

kindalas wrote:

I was working under the idea that the xenomorph would be an ultra-complex "simulation" of the fictional xenomorph. I have a new player joining my group. So I think "aliens" will be his introductory story. That way combat, and mystery solving to expose the exhuman/asshole who created these weapons.

Don't forget to call for any history-related or Science-Fiction-related or even cinematography-related Academics or Interest rolls to identify the thing off the bat. Frankly, though, an [i]awful[/i] lot of our science-fiction and horror is predicated on humans being comparatively squishy, slow, and lacking in sensory acumen compared to the monsters, and those facets just are not true in Eclipse Phase. That's whyEP tends to go for the low blows of "you looked at it? Now you're a manchurian candidate."

kindalas wrote:

If the character was sheltered I would.

That's the rub, though, Kindalas. Almost no player characters are going to be [i]that[/i] sheltered. Sure, theXenomorph is a big, scary, exoskeletal monster, but so is a novacrab. There's a lot of morphs which are sufficiently freaky and deviant from transhuman norms as to be alien in appearance. But hell, Eclipse Phase is a setting where extraterrestrial life is confirmed, and there are folks who go exploring places where it is to be found. Hell, Eclipse Phase is a setting where we were [i]so disappointed[/i] by the lack of little grey aliens that we went and made our own. Xenomorphs are just one more exotic and alien-looking creature among the pack. The real frightening thing about them is that they have so much capability and they're either animals or feral sapients. That's a problem that can be resolved with the liberal application of gunfire.

ShadowDragon8685 wrote:

Would you call for a WILx3 roll the first time they see a novacrab, or a Reaper?

Oh man, I'd need a willx3 roll if I met a Reaper. Maybe not if it was just riding a segway in the airport or floating around the gate of an embassy or some shit like that, but if I was just walking down the street and a Reaper came screaming past with weapons out, I'd probably need new pants. If a helicopter gunship came down the street at rooftop level, I'd be a liar if I said my heart wouldn't jump a bit. If I lived somewhere with a greater risk of state sponsored violence, I'd probably have an even more visceral reaction. There used to be air shows over the city where I lived each year. Some people loved them, others hated the noise. But there are parts of the world where the sound of those jets flying over means you might not have a home or family to go back to. I can imagine the instinctual gut-wrenching discomfort (fear, anger, indignation) that sound must cause, even if you pass your willx3 So yes, I think seeing anything that looks like it is designed specifically for killing you should raise your emotional stress levels. Maybe not a novacrab, that should just make you crave lots of butter. But when I see normal people who dress or comport themselves in such a way that romanticizes the notion of violence, I become more wary. I'm not a non-violent person, I don't live in fear of things -- but we do all have situational awareness and hind-brain reactions to danger and predators. Some people move towards danger, some people move away from it, others might freeze. But we all react to it. Seeing something like the Alien should trigger peoples' instinctual danger sense, especially if it was moving like a predator and not like a cosplayer.

And the cat hoarder is bad, but things get even worse when local children decide the xenomorphs are simple AIs and start collecting and fighting them like pokemon. Sure, they're no threat to heavy industrial morphs, but your average citizen in a splicer on a hab that has weapons lock down is going to have difficulties fighting those things. Especially if they think it's just some weird fad. Hmmm... where would they store the morphs they've collected though?

Imo, the primary difference between a Xenomorph and a Novacrab is that (because it's a movie monster) Xenomorphs are designed to be scary. The concept is saturated with threat indicators – the skeletonized aspect with arachnid and serpentine overtones combine with the cobra-hiss to provide an audio-visual cocktail that reaches deep down into the amygdala and hits the switch marked “I Am Going To Have A Bad Day”. As such, stress on contact would be pretty legit, in exactly the same way as being hit by a splash grenade full of spiders should cause stress tests. The actual physical threat is ultimately irrelevent. Moreover, this means is that there's already a morph which plays the role of the EP-Xeno – The Samsa. Even the description reads like a Xenomorph, except these Xenomorphs can use plasma weaponry. And have 8 limbs. Because Spiders. If a Xenomorph-inspired hostile is needed for a combat scenario, then the swarm behavior from Aliens combined with an acid-blood substitute could provide for a compelling survival encounter. Stat wise, I'd tend towards making them oversized Creepys (with increased movement) armed with Cyberclaws, and filled with pressurized Scrapper’s Gel. And somewhere there's a nest, where the Queen spawns more through her Protean “Nanotoxin” implants...

ShadowDragon8685 wrote:

You'll notice how no scary monster movies take place entirely in well-lit areas

Ah, be fair: a major part of this is to make it easier on the props department. This even happens in literature. How often did Lovecraft /actually/ describe something rather than just alluding to it or saying it was too horrible to describe? Of course you're right though. The human brain is wired this way, to be cautious in the face of incomplete information. There was that time when I was four and I thought a pile of laundry in my room was a monster. I laid perfectly still until it got bright enough to see clearly. Haha.

hello i am that weird guy :P

Well on Tuesday I'm running my we have a new player session where I try and include a crash course on combat, hacking and setting. So I think the xenomorph will make an appearance. I'm taking it's the product of an unimaginative exhuman who has set itself up as queen of a hive. Which means I can initially ramp up the horror. With exsurgent threat. And then ramp it right down as the mystery resolves itself and it becomes a game of shoot the fish in the barrel. Because I like the idea that the Alien moves have survived the fall as part of the historical archive.

In the novels, and comics the Aliens had psychic powers. Made people worship them and end up as volunteer incubators.

further the entire xenomorph and plot design of alien was imply man rape. which is particularly unsettling to the average male psyche since its deluded to think that it is male therefore this can not happen to me.

geckopirateship, you ought to check out the result of 77-78 on a 1d100 roll on the random contents table of Firewall Scratch site. Relevant to your interests and on-topic, even. And I pity the fool who opens that locker without a full military helmet.

Or from the Jovian Republic. I've had a character from there who wound up stuck on a scum barge roll various difficulty stress tests when encountering more exotic examples of a transhumanity. Like the first time she had a real conversation with a Takko, or meeting the de facto "head" of the barge who was in a biocore and composed of the merged egos of the last several elected leaders. You could probably rule that anyone who's spent their whole life in one habitat (especially more Sunward), maybe brinkers, definitely born-and-raised out'sters, and anyone with the naive trait should roll whenever the GM feels its appropriate to their situation. Of course, that's all pretty fucking mundane compared to encountering any xenos, let alone one that's actively hunting you.

ShadowDragon8685 wrote:

I know this game! It's called "Cat and Mouse." There's only one way to win... Don't be the mouse.

Twice in one lifetime? When you're hot you're hot! So the one detail I've been noticing the stats-guys have been missing out on, look at dual wielding rules for Melee combat. Notice something interesting? If it's "don't use ambidexterity, and add +1d10 per weapon" then you're right. So your Alien has a bite (beak?) attack, 2 claws, and the tail spur. That's +3d10 damage to whatever attack you choose as your leading one. EP melee combat is an extrapolation of parry, riposte, repositioning, and attacks of opportunity. If a Flat dodges out of the way of a tail strike but straight into a waiting pair of claws, it's going to hurt! Re: subtype: There is no way the Xeno is going to be anything but a Biomorph. Because otherwise, you'd be able to hack it. The only caveat being, if you made a synthmorph that had the Brain Case mod, that would also be an acceptable method. That said, Xenos have flexibility, stealth, rapid healing, and numbers going for them - not durability. Hence, even less likely to be synth, just something with carapace armor, vacuum sealing, and the benefits of Medichines. Also worth noting: Xenos are capable of surviving in vacuum, but they do not *live* there. So Vacuum Seal and Respirocytes works just fine. Re: acid blood The acid blood doesn't have to be blood. Ever had a really nasty pimple? Fill it with acid, give it the acid resistance of stomach lining, and them make them high pressure pustules distributed across the entire body. You now have projectile vomit from hell, but more than that you have a viable ranged weapon for a critter that relies on melee (which is a dangerous proposition). Re: facehuggers This is where I think the Exsurgent Virus route actually comes in handy. There are mutagenic virus strains (and I believe they had this in mind at the time). Part of the scare of the original critter was not knowing how many there were, where they were, and when they would come next. If you mix in a little zombie plague threat in there (contact risks exposure) and remove proper scanning methods, then you sprint straight past Alien jump scares and into the best parts of the Doom movie - who watches the watchmen; what better hunter than the huntsman? So you start them all off in an overgrown previously-abandoned habitat or inhabited exoplanet where a single critter was found. Party goes through a bug hunt after it geeks a couple villagers, injures a few others. Party kills one critter. But wait, why is it still around? And where did Old Woman Josie and the Erika forks go?