I intend to lead party of Eclipse Phase player characters into Virtual Reality MMORPG run by Titan's authorities where they'll have to prove themselves as valid to become citizens of Commonwealth. It would be like RPG in RPG - partly intended to advance the plot, partly to provide distraction from usual EP's conspiracy & horror theme.
However, I need advice how to do it practically. To immerse into VR they'll need avatars. Should they make another character sheet just for that VR? It is just for one story, is it worth the hassle of character creation?
Also, I envision possibility that players could want to pursue some EP NPC in VR game or undermine him by destroing his VR assets or could just wreak havoc in some popular VR game to provide distraction. It means that they should create some avatar for this specific VR game. So, in a middle of regular game players should make avatar sheets, possibly several times if they need to hop between VR games. But we'd prefer to use the game time for game not for constant character creation.
Are there any helpful methods for avatar creation? Should I go for some simplified character sheet? Some simplified rules? Do you have any experience in such "game in a game"? And how you award players for successes in VR games? Do their characters gain Rez? Reputation?
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VR subgames
Mon, 2015-02-09 08:30
#1
Forseti
VR subgames
Mon, 2015-02-09 09:12
#2
ShadowDragon8685
Um...
Um...
I really, [i]really[/i] don't think that Titan has any qualifications for citizenship beyond "are you willing to put in three years civil service to prove your commitment to the Commonwealth."
That would be, well, kind of ridiculously dystopian, and probably not the thing you can get millions of people to vote in favor of, no matter how much they love them some [i]Galaxy of Starcraft[/i].
That said, you may find some of the answers to your questions already at your disposal, in EP Core, page 262.
If you're hell-bent on the idea, I would say you've got a job ahead of you - figuring out what kind of simulspace it is, writing down its rules, etc, and then making character sheets to fit the bill. In-game characters would progress via whatever means were programmed into the game, the players would progress by Rez. And it would be really shitty to mandate, from on high, that they have to participate in the VR game, then spend large amounts of actual-game focusing on that game, and [i]not[/i] award them Rez.
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[url=http://tinyurl.com/mfcapss]My EP Character Questionnaire[/url]
[url=http://tinyurl.com/lbpsb93]Thread for my Questionnaire[/url]
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Mon, 2015-02-09 10:42
#3
Forseti
Well, actually characters
Well, actually characters would be accepted more easily into Commonwealth if they weren't beta forks that fled from a site of TITANs activity. In Inner System they'd be outright deleted, Titanians seem to have more mercy and set up this diagnostic VR game to ascertain that characters won't show psychopathic tendencies and will integrate with society nicely enough. That said I'm not a fan of sweet and bright depiction of Titanian Commonwealth. While I think that SpaceCynic's take is too much and makes them cartoon evil, I do think that Janteloven is least of their problems. Political correctness, near-obligatory participation in Pluralitet, forced psychosurgical treatment of criminals (for their good), "helpful" and knowing-better social welfare authorities, Muses reporting misconducts of their users to authorities, virtually independent and pretty unchecked Fleet and "let's have a group discussion" public attitude as a facade of hidden forces running things are my take. Plus consequences - presence of triads and tongs is for a reason.
As for VR game though. This VR will be a test for characters. If they play it well and "lawful good" they'd be granted citizenship and given some help for such promising citizens to take place in the society. Standard conduct will grant them citizenship and they'd be left for their own devices - they will spend some time as infomorphs waiting for their Hazers. If their conduct will be suboptimal though, they will be given counseling Muse or perhaps even mandatory psychosurgery.
As this would be due part of the story, I do feel they should be given Rez but I'm uncertain if using standard rules. Also I'm uncertain about Reputation: should they gain it, would it be @-rep or some VR game-specific rep or should I make some separate rep network for VR-gamers?
Unfortunately, I don't find this quote helpful. It is RPG within RPG so players should be able to make *any* character, irrespectible their Ego stats. They should be able to get any attributes, skills and powers as fit for given game.
Now, book says it's up to GM to make up some stats. OK, I know, now I ask more experienced EP players how best to do it. Practically, to avoid unnecessary fuss and maximize fun.
The VR game will be nWoD story for mortals, for future I have "Kirinyaga"/"Seven views on Olduvai Gorge"-like story in iZulu. Also, at some point I want to employ a trick I've seen at "Line of resistance" by Jacek Dukaj where some BSDM-type "master of puppets" guy gets hold on main hero's ex-girlfriend and hero gathers a party and enters a VR game set up in the innards of ancient dragon. The BSDM guy possessed the mind of this dragon and now effectively rules the VR realm. The hero leads his party against BSDM guy to evict him from dragon's mind. In final battle he threatens to ruin BSDM guy's hard-won in-game position if he won't release the girl... I like the idea how real and virtual world intertwines and I'd like to explore it in EP game.
Despite such a diverse plans I'd like to have some general, consistent, easy to use system that will allow to quickly make avatar's mini-sheet and to GM the VR game. I'm unsure though what system and stat-set I should use. I thought about using FUDGE but I know there are some micro-RPGs (I have no experience with them though), perhaps one of them would be better?
What's your advice?
Mon, 2015-02-09 11:11
#4
ShadowDragon8685
As a form of psychological
As a form of psychological profiling, an MMORPG is going to be worse than useless, it's going to be outright misleading.
Psychologically speaking, the actions of just about any RPG character read as sociopathic, especially MMORPG characters, because "kill things and take their stuff" is the core gameplay mechanic.
—
Skype and AIM names: Exactly the same as my forum name.
[url=http://tinyurl.com/mfcapss]My EP Character Questionnaire[/url]
[url=http://tinyurl.com/lbpsb93]Thread for my Questionnaire[/url]
[url=http://tinyurl.com/obu5adp]The Five Orange Pips[/url]
Mon, 2015-02-09 13:46
#5
TranshumanMarina
But they may have accounted
But they may have accounted for in game behavior vs "real" behavior. I don't think they will throw people into a mmorpg and dock them for acting like they are playing an mmorpg. (besides, OP keeps saying 'rpg' not 'mmorpg.' Important disticntion.)--Edit:Ah, now I see the mmorpg bit. That does kind or squelch what I said just there. hue. My apologies.--
I suspect they probably would look for stuff like harassment, jerkish behavior, (because there is, even in an mmorpg setting, a diffrence between being a jerk to an npc and a fellow player.) Or whatever else have you. ESPECIALLY if its made clear that this is an assement, and the characters still feel the need to act poorly with others.
Its just a matter of the people overseeing this knowing the differences between the mediums, and then accounting for them when making an assesment, what is considered 'bad' behavior may be different, but its not difficult to look for warning signs, or otherwise assess the Ego while its playing. ("See the way his mind lights up when he kills those enemies? thats maybe too excited for violence then we like, compared to the baseline we see on average it is approximately 630% higher..")
—
During the fall, humanity received a grim reminder, We lived in fear of the T.I.T.A.N.S and were disgraced to live in these cages we called Habitats.
Mon, 2015-02-09 21:01
#6
Trappedinwikipedia
For the sake of avoiding
For the sake of avoiding system drag, I would probably run VR stuff in a simpler system, like simple D6 or maybe Risus. It really speeds of character creation and resolution, which in the variable-on-a-whim world of VR is probably better than hard rules. I might vary system based on what kind of VR, as just using the EC system with unchanged skills and such could work well in a world which mimics the real world well.
There's a decent fan made writeup for gaming cultures and subgroups for EC kicking around the internet as well, but I don't know of an easy to find host.
Mon, 2015-02-09 21:23
#7
UnitOmega
Trappedinwikipedia wrote:
Assuming you're thinking of the same thing I am, this mediafire link should suffice. And even if it wasn't, it's probably applicable.
http://www.mediafire.com/view/oferz6anbe4h4tp/GamerSocialNetwork.pdf
—
H-Rep: An EP Homebrew Blog
http://ephrep.blogspot.com/
Tue, 2015-02-10 08:12
#8
Lorsa
VR stuff can certainly be fun
VR stuff can certainly be fun, and if you feel the TC would do this sort of thing, then go for it! It's your game, so you should be free to alter the world however you see fit.
To try and answer your specific questions.
In a simulspace, the big "freedom" mostly comes from being able to have any kind of physics rules you want, and any kind of morph you want. The base skills and ego aptitudes are still the same, so you don't have to go through character creation for your avatars. All you really need to do is to apply some morph bonuses (which do not necessarily need to follow the normal rules). For this, it is quite easy to have another set of character sheets.
You could of course let these avatars come with a VR version of the Skillsoft augmentation, thus providing an extra skill or two that the characters doesn't already have. It is also possible, I imagine, to have the avatar being able to perform awesome stunts and feats that the character couldn't (like simulated kung fu moves) given certain specific input from the avatar's controller. The ability to do this correctly would then fall under something like Pilot: Simulspace avatar which is what the characters would roll to do all those fancy tricks (similar to Sword Art Online).
After spending time in a simulspace, it is quite natural that the character's egos would get Rez points to spend. There is no reason why they shouldn't.
If their actions in the game is known and thought to be impressive, or if they earn the respect from their TC supervisors, it is quite possible they'd get @-rep as well. Maybe even f-rep, or r-rep, or even x-rep depending on what they do.
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Mon, 2015-02-23 04:02
#9
Pyrite
If you want to spend some
If you want to spend some serious time in a particular game, then frankly you should consider doing that part in a different system. You've mentioned that the setting of the game is based on NWoD, so use that.
Are they aware that they are being tested?
—
'No language is justly studied merely as an aid to other purposes. It will in fact better serve other purposes, philological or historical, when it is studied for love, for itself.' --J.R.R. Tolkien
Tue, 2015-02-24 15:25
#10
Madwand
If your PCs are immigrating
If your PCs are immigrating from a quarantine zone and are suspected of infection, an MMORPG is not a good way to determine if they are infected. In fact, there is a time-honored method that is even canon in-setting: quarantine. That can mean a lot of things. If your PCs are infomorphs, perhaps it means they are instantiated on an isolated server running at 60x speed (so that the quarantine doesn't take long in real time), and given a chance to interact with NPCs (who will not be distinguishable from real people due to advanced AI) as well as various (fake) opportunities to misbehave. The PCs would be monitored, and if sociopathic or infected behavior is detected, deleted or stored in long-term memory for later examination as appropriate. There are a lot of interesting moral tests that can be given in this situation, and none of them require inventing a new set of MMORPG rules. Just roleplay out a realistic quarantine scenario. Keep the moral tests fairly simple, any sane person should be able to pass them.
When I ran this quarantine scenario for an infomorph PC, he "woke up" in (he thought) his normal body in a healing tank, and found himself in a Firewall research facility. Everything was simulated, but he didn't know that. He was told that he was under quarantine and he was not supposed to leave the facility. He was given opportunities to escape (like walking out the front door), break into an armory, and interact with NPC researchers and clinicians. He passed the tests just fine, and then actually DID get to wake up in his real body. An Exsurgent would have tried something... escape, infecting NPCs, hacking computers, obtaining and using weapons, stealing various valuables.
Wed, 2015-02-25 04:49
#11
Forseti
@Madwand
OK, that's sensible that characters that could be infected shouldn't be exposed to general population in MMORPG game. So I'd stick with just hi-fi VR sim with NPC characters. It still will be an nWoD adventure presented as test for their mental stability and ability to interact with society. I know, I know... realistically it would be better to test interaction with actual contemporary society not the simulation of one 150 years old but:
1. I have nWoD adventure ready
2. I want to give players some pause from uncaring cosmos and weird transhumanism themes
3. Incidentally, one player character just have got infected with McLeod virus. That player's character for VR game will be given some psionic powers so that game reality, VR and reality again will mesh nicely.
In game explanation could be that:
1. Inferring characters' traits and tendencies is easier in simplified, simulated fantasy reality with some aspects (like superhuman powers) providing exaggeration needed to discern more subtle hints at troublesome antisocial tendencies and possible disorders.
2. Providing superhuman powers is a trap for persons infected with McLeod's to weed them out more easily.
Unfortunately, using VR sim with NPCs instead of MMORPG precludes the use of such adventure hooks like in-MMORPG player contacting player characters over some in-real matters (like some journo hunting for their story before anyone else could get it). But it's ok, I'll save it for later.
I'll reply to others comments later, thanks and take care.
Wed, 2015-02-25 13:43
#12
Forseti
@ShadowDragon
I don't believe that Eclipse Phase's MMORPGs are just like present day ones. Actually, I think that while our MMORPGs become increasingly visually appealing over the years, they are still crude as it comes to world simulation and immersion. They allow us to lead our character through game theater but it's still not much different from moving the pawn on the gaming board. Also plots and mechanics are still pretty simple that leads to predictable and - well - antisocial behavior. For true immersion we play pen-and-paper RPG where plot complication can be arbitrary, just like players' interaction with game world.
EP's MMORPG are played in VR providing total immersion. You are inside your avatar. I think that just that would stop some players from mindless hack&slash for experience. Also, you are surrounded by hyper-real world also and thanks to AI it can live and NPCs can behave convincingly not like scripted automatons. That would encourage interaction not just using them to pass the quest or try to exploit them. Overall, rich world would encourage taking part of it, many players would treat it like real world carving their niches in it. Some cold even take roles reserved for NPCs: merchants, crafters, shopkeepers - out of escapism. Overall the players would create virtual society and live within the game. That's an end of that "kill&plunder" attitude, prevalent in current games.
So IMO, VR MMORPG could be used to gauge character's traits and tendencies or as a form of therapy (to carefully reintroduce person to society). As Madwand commented though, for patients with harder cases VR sims would be better.
Wed, 2015-02-25 16:14
#13
UnitOmega
That's something actually
That's something actually discussed in the thing I linked earlier. In VR, if you have a sufficiently quality simulspace your "virtual" experiences are indistinguishable from "real life" ones - so hypothetically you would not treat a virtual experience any different than a real one. A lot of commentary on antisocial internet behaviors comes from that combination of (relative) anonymity and depersonalized nature of the interaction - which doesn't set off our conventional social norms about interaction. A completely immersive experience would not have quite those same factors, especially with the properly adjusted sensorium.
—
H-Rep: An EP Homebrew Blog
http://ephrep.blogspot.com/
Wed, 2015-02-25 16:52
#14
uwtartarus
I regularly remind my players
I regularly remind my players in my non-Eclipse Phase games that they could at any moment "...you all wake up from simulspace."
—
Exhuman, and Humanitarian.
