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Mercurial AND Bioconservative

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Tue, 2015-01-13 02:35

uwtartarus uwtartarus's picture

Mercurial AND Bioconservative

I have a player who is looking to build some sort of AGI character who is both bioconservative and mercurial. The counter to Mercurial is Sapient, so theoretically, they could do that? Figured I would poll the forafolk for their thoughts on how the bioconservative ideology and the mercurial philosophy could mesh together or how they wouldn't work. He intends to do some research on it, but I thought I would see if anyone has some quick links to materials or insight on the idea. I am fascinated by how it would play out.

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Exhuman, and Humanitarian.

Tue, 2015-01-13 07:06

jasonbrisbane jasonbrisbane's picture

Fro my understanding

From my understanding Mercurials - supporting the cause of uplifts and expanded to now include AGI's, etc Bioconservative - supporting the use of the un modified bodies (primarily human) and restriction on any modifications (nanobots, cyberware, etc). I see no reason that you couldnt have an uplift orangutang who believes that uplifts should keep their own bodies, and AGI's be resolved to computers or synths...

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Regards, Jason Brisbane

Tue, 2015-01-13 21:58

thepedant

"The Rules"

It's a little tough for an AGI, since generally they're programmed, and it's hard to be against manipulating the stuff of life if that's where you came from, but for a particularly precocious emergent AGI or one that's been around for decades, it might feel that it existed almost as much out of natural processes as human evolution. The AGI probably would also have a lot of other weirdly socially conservative views as it would see rules in transhuman nature that most other people would just consider conventions.

Wed, 2015-01-14 01:40

kindalas

As long as the player

As long as your player can explain the contradiction of it then I say go for it. But I am all about giving players as much agency over their characters as possible.

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Wed, 2015-01-14 02:30

uwtartarus uwtartarus's picture

I tend to agree, Kindalas,

I tend to agree, Kindalas, but I also have players who don't know the setting very well, and worry a repeat of "I am the ultimate slinkie sex-pot so that makes me Ultimate faction, right?" and while the biofascist ubermensches probably respect an expert in the 'being sexy' field, I think they'd be more impressed by a more well-rounded renaissance person. Hence, figured I would check the forum to check if BioCon & Mercurial/Exhuman fit together for an emergent AGI who says "AGI should be as inhuman as they need to be, and humans should stay human." Checking to see what folks think. He has made some decent clarifications:

Quote:
General premise is that it's an AI that knows it's a complicated piece of code tweeked in the image of transhumanity and wants a bit more than to be an emulation dictated by it's creators. Is decent at faking at playing well with others. Believes that humans should be humans and stop playing God by uplifting other species entirely, leave that to their own kind sorta deal. +AGI rights, -Assimilation, (+Biocon?), +Personal Development

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Exhuman, and Humanitarian.

Wed, 2015-01-14 10:18

Rallan

I dunno if what the player's

I dunno if what the player's describing is bioconservatism so much as pro-AGI anti-human racism. For starters his reason for opposing radical human augmentation sounds like it's motivated purely by wanting to ensure humans don't grow to rival the potential of AGIs, where regular bioconservatives oppose radical human augmentation because they're worried that a) it increases the risk of TITAN infection/exploitation and that b) we might end up losing the quintessentially human traits that make us us. Meanwhile bioconservatives also tend to frown on AGI for similar security-based reasons (y'know, what with the previous lot of AGIs without any bounds on their evolution turning into godlike intelligences and destroying Earth and all that), while his PC's views on AGI evolution would make everyone in the room choke on their drinks if he mentioned them to a gathering of bioconservatives anywhere in the Solar system. All in all I'd say he's more a straight Mercurial (possibly with a dash of Singularity Seeker or Exhuman, although he probably thinks any self-declared inheritor of the galaxy that used to have 46 chromosomes is a poseur) rather than a blend of Mercurial and Bioconservative.

Wed, 2015-01-14 13:05

kindalas

uwtartarus wrote:I tend to

uwtartarus wrote:
I tend to agree, Kindalas, but I also have players who don't know the setting very well, and worry a repeat of "I am the ultimate slinkie sex-pot so that makes me Ultimate faction, right?" and while the biofascist ubermensches probably respect an expert in the 'being sexy' field, I think they'd be more impressed by a more well-rounded renaissance person. Hence, figured I would check the forum to check if BioCon & Mercurial/Exhuman fit together for an emergent AGI who says "AGI should be as inhuman as they need to be, and humans should stay human." Checking to see what folks think. He has made some decent clarifications:
Quote:
General premise is that it's an AI that knows it's a complicated piece of code tweeked in the image of transhumanity and wants a bit more than to be an emulation dictated by it's creators. Is decent at faking at playing well with others. Believes that humans should be humans and stop playing God by uplifting other species entirely, leave that to their own kind sorta deal. +AGI rights, -Assimilation, (+Biocon?), +Personal Development

I think that the player is missing the intent of bioconservatism, they want to exceed their character's design intent without interference from other groups. I would say exhuman or sigularity seeker or mercurial would be the best choices. Definitely AGI (one of the many backgrounds) and Mercurial. Then the player can play up the PCs distaste at transhumanity imposing so much on AGI and uplfits.

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Thu, 2015-01-15 18:41

DivineWrath DivineWrath's picture

Well, a bioconservative AGI

Well, a bioconservative AGI wouldn't need to be bioconservative on all points. You could try to find points that you're typically AGI wouldn't have problems with, and points that are somewhat against AGIs. It might be interesting to see what how the AGI can adapt bioconservative views to mesh with its own, or to be more accepting of AGIs. Alternatively, you shouldn't rule out the possibility that the bioconservatives might seek out or try to create a bioconservative AGI to make their group more welcoming and less hostile. To better improve their image. It is much like how in the last American election, the Republicans tried show casing their homosexual, black, and female politicians, to make it look like they were the progressive party. Much like how a politician would love to be photographed shaking hands with famous and well respected people. Such an AGI might be treated very nicely, possibly unusually or superficially so, maybe with someone often around to be controlling or pushy. If you play around with how sincere the bioconservative are, you could get some very different experiences and characters as a result.