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Christmas (and birthdays) in Autonomist habs.

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ShadowDragon8685 ShadowDragon8685's picture
Christmas (and birthdays) in Autonomist habs.
So, for obvious reasons (check the date of this post if it isn't), the topic is on my mind. On the one hand, Christmas is by now a western cultural tradition that nearly transcends religion entirely. I can't see it not being carried offworld with transhumanity. On the other hand, most autonomist habitats are low on resources, and low on materialism/private property. Some exceptions exist (most places acknowledge you own your morph, especially if it's your original,) of course, but Christmas (and birthday) gift giving is kind of inextricably bound. On the other tentacle, it occurs to me that you can give gifts without using resources; you can lend your time and/or expertise to the endeavors of those you wish to give to. Or invoke your own favors on their behalf, etcetera. Or if they're lovers of simulspace games, in-game goods don't use physical resources. What do you all think? Christmas in autonomist habs - or in EP in general?
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ORCACommander ORCACommander's picture
I think there would be a rise
I think there would be a rise in hand made items. remember that hand or self created items as opposed to nano fabbed have risen astronomically in perceived value. Thus hand made gifts would be the norm of expressing affection
Panoptic Panoptic's picture
Not all gifts have to involve
Not all gifts have to involve extravagent amounts of materials or labour to create. And decorations can be fabbed and recycled as needed, no endless boxes of stuff to stuff in the non-existent attic. ;)
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Bursting Eagern... Bursting Eagerness Soul's picture
ORCACommander wrote:I think
ORCACommander wrote:
I think there would be a rise in hand made items. remember that hand or self created items as opposed to nano fabbed have risen astronomically in perceived value. Thus hand made gifts would be the norm of expressing affection
Basically this. If someone takes the time to (in game terms) use their Art skill for you, that would induce a lot of the warm fuzzies that gift giving in general does.
In other words, firing off a laser with a sufficient TWR for the recoil to be noticeable would require a post-miracle-tech laser weighing less than a disposable plastic spoon and powerful enough to shoot down Death Stars? -- ShadowDragon8685
ShadowDragon8685 ShadowDragon8685's picture
I don't imagine that everyone
I don't imagine that everyone has an Art skill, though. Although, if you have a cyberbrain, you can always grab an appropriate Art: [Hard Vacuum Basket Weaving] skillware, but given the nature of art and skillware, I expect it would be pretty obvious. Though they are still taking the time to make it themselves, which is something.
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Bursting Eagern... Bursting Eagerness Soul's picture
ShadowDragon8685 wrote:I don
ShadowDragon8685 wrote:
I don't imagine that everyone has an Art skill, though. Although, if you have a cyberbrain, you can always grab an appropriate Art: [Hard Vacuum Basket Weaving] skillware, but given the nature of art and skillware, I expect it would be pretty obvious. Though they are still taking the time to make it themselves, which is something.
Taking the time to make whatever it is is probably the most important part of it. It could be making someone an awesome simulspace garden with your Programming skill or putting together a new creepie with your Hardware: Robotics. All that matters is that you took the time out of your day to make them something that they might like.
In other words, firing off a laser with a sufficient TWR for the recoil to be noticeable would require a post-miracle-tech laser weighing less than a disposable plastic spoon and powerful enough to shoot down Death Stars? -- ShadowDragon8685
Trappedinwikipedia Trappedinwikipedia's picture
I would guess that
I would guess that practically anywhere in system with fabber access gifts aren't likely to be any kind of functional physical object, as transhumans are generally pretty unconcerned with the kinds of physical trinkets which most modern gifts are. Artistic items, either physical or virtual probably still exist, but are the minority. I would guess that most gifts are in the form of experiences, whether in the form of date-night vouchers or similar, or even something like cleaned up XP of two friends first meeting, so some such.
Bursting Eagern... Bursting Eagerness Soul's picture
In response to the "not a
In response to the "not a functional physical object" objection, I bring you this. What if one of your friends or family members is a tech wiz, and they decide to upgrade the everloving shit out of your vacsuit or personal servitor bot for your birthday? Would you consider that an acceptable present? I do agree with the "experiential gift" thing though. Sharing memories in the literal sense would be an awesome use of XP technology.
In other words, firing off a laser with a sufficient TWR for the recoil to be noticeable would require a post-miracle-tech laser weighing less than a disposable plastic spoon and powerful enough to shoot down Death Stars? -- ShadowDragon8685
Lorsa Lorsa's picture
Creative gift giving is
Creative gift giving is usually more enjoyable for everyone involved. I imagine in an autonomist habitat you could give away favors or rep as well. As in, I could do you a favor without getting any rep dings, or I could do a favor for someone else and ask them to ding your rep instead of mine. This "doing a service for someone 'for free'" seems very suitable for christmas. For birthdays, I imagine the party itself is gift enough. Host a party for your friend, gather people you know they like, bonus points for guests from off habitat or personal idols and the like. Or maybe hire some scum to help you organise the party!
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kindalas kindalas's picture
An Idea
Something to consider when running games. I would imagine that a large number of holidays post Fall have been tinted by the loss of so many friends and loved ones. I can see birthdays especially taking on a sombre tone as the birthday person takes time to mourn the people who used to celebrate with them. The same goes for xmas, Valentines, Mother's Day, Father's Day Family Day and Remembrance Day (Veterans day in the US, I think) especially. It is the small things that you can throw in to festive times to remind the players that most populations are still traumatised by the Fall.
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ShadowDragon8685 ShadowDragon8685's picture
Oooooh, that's a good one. I
Oooooh, that's a good one. I can see a lot of Scrooges who don't want to be reminded that it's Christmas because Christmas reminds them of the family who are all dead and assimilated by the TITANs.
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UnitOmega UnitOmega's picture
I imagine birthdays are
I imagine birthdays are probably a very weird, hodgepodge of cultures, and many polities or cultures probably don't celebrate them the way that the modern West does. Especially if they don't use the calendar system you were "born" under. It's noted that if you resleeve, it's common to throw a little party to let your friends get used to your new face and if you've been dead maybe help you recoup some items. Depending on how frequently you sleeve, it may be much more common to celebrate milestones since your last physical instancing (especially among Re-Instantiated or Indenture cultures/sub-cultures) with a little celebration. Especially if you're in a place where Earth days or years don't have a lot of context (and may be a sad reminder, as kindalas said). I have no idea what kinds of holidays Rimward habs would celebrate, especially with the large amount of variance and even neoculturalisms in their cultures and cultural groups. Classical Earth holidays (western or otherwise) probably don't have nearly as much context out in the black, and the Autonomist Alliance as a whole seems less somber about the Fall than, say, JR or LLA. An AGI, for instance, might not place a lot of stock in the same things as humans or uplifts. Being born to them is not necessarily as complex as many other transhuman "births" and a birthday isn't as huge a milestone for an entity which starts life with its full capabilities, if not its full experience. In general though, Christmas is kind of a big cultural touchstone for lots of groups, and I can't see the Planetary Consortium not grabbing onto the usual marketing explosion and encourage the purchasing of expensive gifts for the people you care about in your life. I imagine a lot of the "Hallmark" holidays are the same, at least in the PC, and maybe on Venus. Luna has a lot stronger asian influence, and is also a lot more somber about the Fall, so they probably tend to treat touchstone holidays as a more quiet affairs of "hey, remember what that stuff was like on Earth? Let's have a quiet get-together to talk about how cool Earth was."
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ShadowDragon8685 ShadowDragon8685's picture
UnitOmega...
UnitOmega... Um. Lots of stuff, lots of good points, but one thing I want to bring up: Calendars. Specifically, literally approximately everybody has a computer in their head that is almost certainly capable of converting the present time and date to any system of time and date you wish to use, whether the (still almost certain to be the standard) calendar we use today, or in dates A.F./B.F., adjusted one way or another whether you're still using the standard calendar or that godawful Martian calendar, or in, I dunno, Mayan dates or whatever you feel like using. But really, no matter what calendar you're using, Christmas is probably only gonna come once a year. Unless you're using that retarded Martian calendar, in which case Christmas comes twice a year. (And it's also only 5 AF.) And your muse will be able to tell you, when upon whichever arbitrary time-keeping standard you use, it commences, and has past.
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UnitOmega UnitOmega's picture
Well, I'll fight you on
Well, I'll fight you on "literally approximately everybody". Just because we like to ignore zeroes and other Flats doesn't mean they don't exist. However, just because you can have whatever calendars you want up and running (or have your muse manage them) doesn't mean you actually do that. I have multiple computer devices, and my mother still buys me wall calendars to use because I'm really bad at performing what constitutes going out of my way to set up digital calendar tracking of events and so on. My point was that, unless you're in the LLA, the standard Terran calendar (while a great benchmark for Transhumanity) doesn't necessarily hold a lot of direct context to you. Especially when transhumans have a different sleep cycle requirements thanks to basic biomods. As such, counting and handling days based on an earth date may or may not be normal or typical for transhumans out on the Rim. You could cross reference any time you like, thanks Mesh, but if you don't take the time to do so, I could easily see people loosing track of of the distance from the Earth day on which they were born out in the black somewhere, where things aren't in context as much. Especially if you don't choose to share that date with lots of people and it's optional information on your social networking profile. But time since you last resleeved is just static time counting up, and you never have to worry about "well, I was in cold storage for 2 standard years, and now I'm in a pod that's only 5 years old, technically...". Basically, Eclipse Phase makes the standard measure of the birthday a little weird, which given the neoculturalism in plenty of outer system places, probably means Transhumans have made their lives easier by doing some stuff different.
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ShadowDragon8685 ShadowDragon8685's picture
UnitOmega wrote:Well, I'll
UnitOmega wrote:
Well, I'll fight you on "literally approximately everybody". Just because we like to ignore zeroes and other Flats doesn't mean they don't exist.
That was why I used the fudge-factor that is "approximately." Also, Flats can have mesh inserts, and I'd imagine that most remaining ones outside of Jovian space or awful Zero slave-habs do.
Quote:
However, just because you can have whatever calendars you want up and running (or have your muse manage them) doesn't mean you actually do that. I have multiple computer devices, and my mother still buys me wall calendars to use because I'm really bad at performing what constitutes going out of my way to set up digital calendar tracking of events and so on.
That's what a muse is for. You don't have to even remember to set up your calendar, your muse does it automatically, and reminds you of upcoming events you may be interested in. I'm also sure it has access to a [i]wide[/i] variety of dates you have no interest in, which it won't show you or remind you of, unless you ask it to. So, for instance, on December 20th, by Universal Time, if you're particularly forgetful, or you're using the Martian calendar and it's currently Rishaba 26th, your muse will tell you that Christmas is in ~5 days, and probably apply some snowflake themes to your UI. If you're coming up on your birthday, or a friend's birthday, or the anniversary of your wedding, your muse will remind you. But probably won't remind you of the anniversary of a friend's wedding, unless you choose to look at the low-priority upcoming events.
Quote:
My point was that, unless you're in the LLA, the standard Terran calendar (while a great benchmark for Transhumanity) doesn't necessarily hold a lot of direct context to you. Especially when transhumans have a different sleep cycle requirements thanks to basic biomods. As such, counting and handling days based on an earth date may or may not be normal or typical for transhumans out on the Rim. You could cross reference any time you like, thanks Mesh, but if you don't take the time to do so, I could easily see people loosing track of of the distance from the Earth day on which they were born out in the black somewhere, where things aren't in context as much. Especially if you don't choose to share that date with lots of people and it's optional information on your social networking profile. But time since you last resleeved is just static time counting up, and you never have to worry about "well, I was in cold storage for 2 standard years, and now I'm in a pod that's only 5 years old, technically...".
Timekeeping is a very, very complex thing. That's why humanity invented a standard for it a long, long time ago. It only gets [i]more[/i] complex when distance comes into effect, but fortunately that can be mathematically compensated for. Folks will still be using the Universal Time clock - it even says so on Sunward pg. 103. They may have local adjustments to it, but even then, the standard that everybody's muses are going to be built on is Universal Time, based on the time of day and day of month in Greenwich, England, nevermind that Greenwich itself is ass-deep in TITAN refuse. Standards are like that, and frankly the current calendar and clock have too much momentum. They're going to stick around precisely [i]because[/i] of that momentum, meaning that they're the only standard everybody can agree on. If the LLA, Consortium, Morningstar, Junta, Commonwealth, Locus and Extropia all have different standards for calendars, even basic diplomatic communications are going to be a nightmare. So they're going to fall back on the old standard to talk to one another, and do any conversions necessary in-house. Same goes for all those independent and corporate habitats. No new standard is going to get enough "market share" to overcome the inertia of UT being the calendar and clock everybody knows, and most people are going to take the path of least resistance.
Quote:
Basically, Eclipse Phase makes the standard measure of the birthday a little weird, which given the neoculturalism in plenty of outer system places, probably means Transhumans have made their lives easier by doing some stuff different.
Oh, undoubtedly, there will be many who are going to choose to celebrate entirely different milestones, or celebrate new milestones in conjunction with the old. But even that said, the anniversary of the date when you went from being a potential form of life to an actual form of life, is probably going to hold relevance for most. For those who were born as biomorphs, it's going to be their birthday. For AGIs, it's probably going to be Runday or Compiling Day. But most folks will probably adjust their age downward to account for time they can't account for - time spent in cold storage, time spent dead, etc, but that won't change their birthday. [e]Something I've just recalled: On the topic of the importance standardizing calendars, allow me to use an example. Waaay back in ancient times, pre-Roman Empire times, when Greece was a land of city-states who could barely stand to look at one another without running each other through (unless Persians were invading, in which case it was all Grecian Unity up in this hizz-house,) every city-state had its own calendar. [i]Every[/i] one of the bastards. They had their own dates for observances, even in cases where you nominally had the same religions in different cities, they had their own dates for everything. It was, in short, a nightmare for historians. But fortunately, there was one event whose date everyone could agree on, even if they wrote it down differently. So, historians started to write of events as having taken place X years after the Yth Olympiad. Because everybody knew about the Olympic games. So, folks will probably still cleave to the old standard, because it's the only one everybody knows. Even the silly A.F./B.F denomination is using the same calendar, it's just changing the marker-post from the alleged birth of Christ in 0 A.D., which later was de-religionized into BCE and CE, to the year when the Titans rose up and wrecked Earth... Though even that's having a hard time taking hold. Whether or not the A.F./B.F. nomenclature will supplant Common Era/Anno Domini nomenclature or not, it's still going to be the same calendar, just with a different 0 point.
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Chernoborg Chernoborg's picture
I agree that a universal time
I agree that a universal time would be pretty much required for anyone living in the outer system. The time scales are simply too big to be really useful or even perceivable. I'm pretty sure the age of majority on Titan isn't in 25 Saturnian years! :) That said, I do think transhumanity would adapt holidays to their needs. On a personal level there are things like birthdays (inception days for AGI' s?), resleeving anniversaries, and other significant events to pepper the year with. On top of that are cultural events like Fall day, Founding day for specific habitats, and religious holidays - where applicable. Then there could be events unique to a location, like equinoxes or Peri/aphelion. The equinoxes on Saturn would be something since that's when everyone gets full ecilpses! The changing over to winter on Uranus may be dreaded by most but I bet they'll throw a hell of a midwinter festival!
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