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Psychosurgery Queries

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Wed, 2009-09-09 10:36

Skimble

Psychosurgery Queries

I was just reading over the Psychosurgery procedures and am slightly confused. I presume the PM listed is the Psychosurgery Modifier when performing a given procedure? I am also unsure how the Deep Learning procedure works. It lists as the time required the Skill Learning Time + 2, then goes on to say that it allows skills to be learned more quickly. The only way this makes sense is if this procedure is the only way in which the time dilation effects of VR can be utilised to allow the training of skills at enhanced rates - is this the case? Thanks in advance for your reply.

Wed, 2009-09-09 10:45

Admini

My guess is that Deep

My guess is that Deep Learning is supposed to read Skill Learning Time / 2, so that it halves the time.

Thu, 2009-09-10 03:33

RobBoyle

Yeah, that + is supposed to

Yeah, that + is supposed to be a division symbol. Noted for the errata.

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Rob Boyle :: Posthuman Studios

Thu, 2009-09-10 04:25

Skimble

Deep Learning

Thank you Rob.

I can see that this is a useful procedure, but halving the time taken to learn a skill pales into insignificance compared to the possibility of compressing time in VR and learning at a rate of 60 days per day.

Can these effects be stacked, thus allowing people under the effects of both VR time manipulation and psychosurgery to effectively learn 120 days' material per day, or is the intention of the system that psychosurgery is the only method by which learning can be accelerated, providing a maximum benefit of halving learning times?

I can't see a compelling reason in the setting as presented why both techniques cannot be combined, but it does seem to render learning times somewhat moot (as long as VR is available).

If characters take the route of both undergoing Deep Learning and time compression to learn vast amounts of material would you advocate doling out some stress to represent the strain of cramming, or would you leave it at the stress already caused by Deep Learning?

Thu, 2012-04-05 15:36

nerdnumber1 nerdnumber1's picture

Re: Deep Learning

I know I'm necro-ing a thread years dead, but I'm curious as to the effects of VR on skill training. I would assume that one could argue that training certain physical skill you might need real life experience that VR simulations can't quite teach, but I'm sure that a month of study (equivilent to half a day in the real world) would help toward learning a knowledge skill. If VR works then stacking would be the only way that this psychosurgical technique would be useful, if you can take the stress.

Sat, 2014-10-25 03:52

doublethink doublethink's picture

I found this thread after

I found this thread after wondering the same thing today. 1) Can you improve skills in VR with time acceleration? 2) If #1 is true, can you combine that with "Deep Learning"? I'm assuming #1 is true, else how would an infolife "grow" as an entity? You don't need a meatbag.

Sun, 2014-10-26 20:52

jackgraham jackgraham's picture

>1) Can you improve skills in

>1) Can you improve skills in VR with time acceleration? No. Honestly, I don't have an ironclad argument against it in terms of the fiction. But for reasons of not breaking the game, we don't allow it.

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Mon, 2014-10-27 05:16

Kremlin K.O.A. Kremlin K.O.A.'s picture

Notably, that would suggest

Notably, that would suggest the Lost exited their VR with no skills at all.

Mon, 2014-10-27 08:12

ShadowDragon8685 ShadowDragon8685's picture

jackgraham wrote:>1) Can you

jackgraham wrote:
>1) Can you improve skills in VR with time acceleration? No. Honestly, I don't have an ironclad argument against it in terms of the fiction. But for reasons of not breaking the game, we don't allow it.

If it doesn't make sense that it doesn't work that way, then just make it work that way, and damn any sense of game balance. Besides, even with 60x time acceleration, Rez is still the limiting factor, and if a simulspace environment is so realistic that you can spend ages in FPS sims and come out able to take headshots like most people take "I'll be glad to hit that guy anywhere" shots, then you can go into simulspace and take a VR engineering course and come out able to maintain a habitat or whatever.

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Mon, 2014-10-27 13:04

#10

Lorsa

Unless you simply want to

Unless you simply want to listen to one of the game creators (why shouldn't you?), when I GM, I do allow simulspaces to teach you skills. I see no reason why it wouldn't work that way. However, as mentioned, Rez Points is still a limiting factor, and there's nothing in the rules that says you should get them simply for time spent. I've always taken the "you can't increase your skill by more than X per week" with some large grains of salt anyway, so it's not like simulspace learning breaks anything for me. As long as the GM is in charge of Rez points, and they aren't given out simply due to time spent in simulspace, I don't see much of a problem. It does allow a character to learn a skill they might not be able to practice in their physical surroundings (like Pilot: Watercraft on a Scum barge), and it helps if you need characters to have a reason for "catching up" skillwise with the others.

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Mon, 2014-10-27 15:47

#11

uwtartarus uwtartarus's picture

Isn't there mental trauma for

Isn't there mental trauma for using accelerated VR time beyond the x6 stuff that the Lost project used (I presume part of their x6 speed choice was due to minimizing mental harm, though they apparently cut corners on the whole Empathy mapping software plus children developing thing)?

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Exhuman, and Humanitarian.

Tue, 2014-10-28 13:47

#12

ThatWhichNeverWas ThatWhichNeverWas's picture

Skillsofts are a thing, right?

I just assumed it was the standard, and used it as an explination for how buying skills works. If, however, you want a reason for it not to work, then I'd say that accelerated learning by necessity involves a simulspace setting which is a purely barebones learning environment, which would drive a normal transhuman mildly insane through pure boredom. Accelerated learning therefore is used via specially modified autistic forks with thier sense of time suppressed. At the end of the "course" the fork is reintegrated with the alpha personality. So accelerated learning , no. Merging with a fork of yourself with new skills, Yes!

uwtartarus wrote:
Isn't there mental trauma for using accelerated VR time beyond the x6 stuff that the Lost project used (I presume part of their x6 speed choice was due to minimizing mental harm, though they apparently cut corners on the whole Empathy mapping software plus children developing thing)?

I assumed it was because of Morph Fever/Being Async.

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In the past we've had to compensate for weaknesses, finding quick solutions that only benefit a few. But what if we never need to feel weak or morally conflicted again?

Tue, 2014-10-28 16:10

#13

uwtartarus uwtartarus's picture

ThatWhichNeverWas wrote

ThatWhichNeverWas wrote:
uwtartarus wrote:
Isn't there mental trauma for using accelerated VR time beyond the x6 stuff that the Lost project used (I presume part of their x6 speed choice was due to minimizing mental harm, though they apparently cut corners on the whole Empathy mapping software plus children developing thing)?
I assumed it was because of Morph Fever/Being Async.

Oh yeah! I never thought of that, because they said something something empathy mapping, but Morph Fever from being Asyncs would explain the weird and pervasive psychosis. This is interesting because it means that another Lost project could actually work! Haha... new plot seeds.

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Exhuman, and Humanitarian.

Fri, 2014-10-31 11:22

#14

ThatWhichNeverWas ThatWhichNeverWas's picture

Oh god, I can see the press release now...

uwtartarus wrote:
This is interesting because it means that another Lost project could actually work! Haha... new plot seeds.

Sure! I mean, what are the chances that the entire population gets infected with some form of the Exsurgent virus again, right? This seems like an entirely reasonable and safe idea where nothing can go horribly wrong at all.

—

In the past we've had to compensate for weaknesses, finding quick solutions that only benefit a few. But what if we never need to feel weak or morally conflicted again?