A friends and I are scratching our heads over the subversion table.
So you hack way into the system. If you want to be able to do security-y things you probably want a security account. "Apply a –20 modifier if the user has security account privileges, –30 if they have admin rights." We're inside a security account and finished the mission but want to erase the logs, so now we're looking at Subversion.
"Engaging in any sort of activity for which you don’t have access rights is more difficult and requires hacking the system. This typically requires an Infosec Success Test, modified by the difficulty of the action as noted on the Subversion Difficulties table." So it lists a huge table.
My main question is as follows: If all the table is are examples of what can be done at a given privilege level, couldn't this table have been removed by saying "Engaging in any sort of activity for which you don’t have access rights requires an Infosec Success Test, modified by the difference in privilege level (Advanced User, Security Account, and Admin Account)." ?
It seems so much easier, and uses terms and penalties that are already established. So why didn't they do it this way? Since they're separate from privileges are these penalties intended to be stacked with the privilege penalties (IE being a normal user and attempting to alter the logs is a -60 penalty)? If I have a Security Account and want to do something that requires Admin Rights is it still a -30 or is it only a -10 penalty?
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Burning Subversion Question
Thu, 2014-09-18 03:42
#1
PoisonAlchemist
Burning Subversion Question
Thu, 2014-09-25 19:27
#2
PoisonAlchemist
Really? No one?
Really? No one?
Thu, 2014-09-25 21:20
#3
ShadowDragon8685
I'm really not sure what the
I'm really not sure what the problem is, honestly.
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Thu, 2014-09-25 22:56
#4
PoisonAlchemist
Simplification:
Simplification:
There are subversion penalties.
There are user privilege penalties.
Subversion penalties correlate with user penalties.
Why are they separate if they are the same thing?
Are they supposed to stack?
Are you supposed to take the full penalty for admin activities (-30) if you have a security account?
Thu, 2014-09-25 23:35
#5
ORCACommander
my impression is that they
my impression is that they are supposed to stack and a security account should get that penalty for admin only activities
Tue, 2014-09-30 19:07
#6
Darn_the_Vargr
Hey Alchemist!
Hey Alchemist!
I would say you could either take the difference between user levels or apply a single modifier. I wouldn't stack Security + Admin if you're at user level, being from the same table. However, I could definitely see if you as a GM could rationalize linking a mod from the Accounts table and then a single difficulty from the subversion chart.
As a second way to interpret it, you could simply apply one of the three levels as it correlates to the modifier table. I can see why you got confused with those.
I hope the designers decide to post soon. I would like this answered myself!
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Fri, 2014-11-07 01:10
#7
Justin Alexander
PoisonAlchemist wrote:So you
The rule you're quoting here is for Spoofing Authentication. Once you've successfully spoofed the authentication, you've spoofed it: You don't need to keep making the check. So if you've already secured an account (through spoofing) that allows you to take the action you want to take, you don't need to use a subversion action.
Pg. 259: "If their access rights allow it, the activity is handled like that of a legitimate user and no test is called for..."
Note that spoofing is not the only way to gain access to an account. And, in some cases, it may not be possible to spoof an account. (You need specific software and you also need to locate an active user so that you can monitor their network traffic.)
First, the table you appear to be talking about is explicitly titled Subversion Examples (emphasis added). The generic guidelines for subversion difficulties are given on the same page and it's not a "huge table": It's got four lines.
Second, you've misinterpreted how account types work. It's not a strict hierarchy like you seem to be assuming. Notably, user accounts are given specific access privileges: Those specific privileges could include actions which would have a -0, -10, -20, or even -30 penalty if you were to attempt them without having access to an account that has permission to take that action.
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