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Old Core Books?

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Tue, 2014-09-02 17:13
#1
Erulastant Erulastant's picture
Old Core Books?
Are digital copies of the older printings (2nd, 3rd, maybe even 1st because I'm curious) of the Core book available somewhere? I'd like to take a look at them but for some reason I only have the 4th printing... (Which is odd because I started playing before the 4th printing came out) Sorry if this has been answered elsewhere, I wasn't able to find it.
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You, too, were made by humans. The methods used were just cruder, imprecise. I guess that explains a lot.
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Tue, 2014-09-02 18:35
jackgraham jackgraham's picture
There are probably still
There are probably still torrents out there. We ourselves won't distribute the first (Catalyst) printing ever again, though, because it contains illos by artists who weren't comfortable doing CC.
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J A C K   G R A H A M :: Hooray for Earth!   http://eclipsephase.com :: twitter @jackgraham @faketsr :: Google+Jack Graham
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Fri, 2014-09-05 08:53
nezumi.hebereke nezumi.hebereke's picture
As a note, the differences
As a note, the differences between printings (they aren't editions; there's only the one edition) are minor, and I don't think there are any which anyone has said isn't a good change. I haven't done a side-by-side for the art though. That would be interesting.
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Fri, 2014-09-05 11:34
obsidian razor obsidian razor's picture
@jackgraham
@jackgraham I actually own a first edition EP that I bought when the printed version first became available (started playing when it was just still a pdf. Yes, I know, I'm a fucking hipster). Since then, I've never checked one of the newer books and I've never noticed any incoherences rules-wise between my book and any further supplement, asides from what's on the errata. Have there been any big changes to the system since then that would warrant a new paper copy? Also, what do you mean by "not comfortable doing CC", what does CC stand for? Is the artwork very different in the new printings? All of these questions just popped into my head when I saw this post!
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Fri, 2014-09-05 11:57
ORCACommander ORCACommander's picture
CC is short hand for Creative
CC is short hand for Creative Commons and it is a very much you hate it or you love it license. Its great for amateurs and hobbyists but professionals tend to chafe under it because it hurts royalty and licensing opportunities.
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Fri, 2014-09-05 11:58
obsidian razor obsidian razor's picture
Thanks! That makes sense :)
Thanks! That makes sense :) How is the latest (4th printing manual) different from a 1st edition? Asides from correcting things from the errata and such?
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Fri, 2014-09-05 15:02
AdamJury AdamJury's picture
obsidian razor wrote:Thanks!
obsidian razor wrote:
Thanks! That makes sense :) How is the latest (4th printing manual) different from a 1st edition? Asides from correcting things from the errata and such?
There are some layout touchups (mostly stuff that you'd have to set both books side-by-side to notice), and a few pieces (less than 10) of art were replaced. Some as we simply weren't happy enough with the original pieces, and some because one artist wasn't comfortable with the Creative Commons license. Even though the artist had sold us all rights and we could have simply licensed his work under the CC license anyway, we chose to replace it with work from an artist that was comfortable with it.
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Fri, 2014-09-05 15:18
AdamJury AdamJury's picture
ORCACommander wrote:CC is
ORCACommander wrote:
CC is short hand for Creative Commons and it is a very much you hate it or you love it license. Its great for amateurs and hobbyists but professionals tend to chafe under it because it hurts royalty and licensing opportunities.
I think you're making a giant sweeping statement here about something that has a lot more nuance. Of course, for starters, there isn't one Creative Commons license -- there are several. So under the license we use (BY-NC-SA), someone can't take art from Eclipse Phase and sell it somehow. The artist's rights in that respect are protected just much as they would have been if we had released Eclipse Phase under a traditional copyright license. The other thing to bear in mind is that most RPG art contracts are "Work for Hire" contracts; the publisher usually pays a one-time fee to the artist and then the publisher owns the work. The artist usually doesn't have a lot of flexibility in how they can use the work -- if they want to put it into an art book they're making, or if some other publication wishes to use it, they have to deal with the publisher for rights. Our contracts allow artists to make and sell prints, and we're wide open to artists doing their own merch with their EP art, including art books. We want to enable that stuff, and it's the traditional RPG artist contract that usually gets in the way of it -- not the Creative Commons license that applies to the works that we distribute.
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Fri, 2014-09-05 16:09
Gardensnake Gardensnake's picture
AdamJury wrote:obsidian razor
AdamJury wrote:
obsidian razor wrote:
Thanks! That makes sense :) How is the latest (4th printing manual) different from a 1st edition? Asides from correcting things from the errata and such?
There are some layout touchups (mostly stuff that you'd have to set both books side-by-side to notice), and a few pieces (less than 10) of art were replaced. Some as we simply weren't happy enough with the original pieces, and some because one artist wasn't comfortable with the Creative Commons license. Even though the artist had sold us all rights and we could have simply licensed his work under the CC license anyway, we chose to replace it with work from an artist that was comfortable with it.
I would think volunteering to switch the art like that would also endear the artist to you a bit and make sure there are no hard feelings. William
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Han didn't shoot first. He was the only one to shoot.
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Fri, 2014-09-05 16:12
Erulastant Erulastant's picture
Mainly I was interested
Mainly I was interested because of some of the rules changes, and a lot of the errata just has the new text rather than a before/after. (What had initially prompted me to look for my 3rd printing was the change w/r/t teleoperating, I wanted to check on what the previous rules had been)
—
You, too, were made by humans. The methods used were just cruder, imprecise. I guess that explains a lot.
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Sat, 2014-09-06 00:09
ORCACommander ORCACommander's picture
AdamJury wrote:ORCACommander
AdamJury wrote:
ORCACommander wrote:
CC is short hand for Creative Commons and it is a very much you hate it or you love it license. Its great for amateurs and hobbyists but professionals tend to chafe under it because it hurts royalty and licensing opportunities.
I think you're making a giant sweeping statement here about something that has a lot more nuance. Of course, for starters, there isn't one Creative Commons license -- there are several. So under the license we use (BY-NC-SA), someone can't take art from Eclipse Phase and sell it somehow. The artist's rights in that respect are protected just much as they would have been if we had released Eclipse Phase under a traditional copyright license. The other thing to bear in mind is that most RPG art contracts are "Work for Hire" contracts; the publisher usually pays a one-time fee to the artist and then the publisher owns the work. The artist usually doesn't have a lot of flexibility in how they can use the work -- if they want to put it into an art book they're making, or if some other publication wishes to use it, they have to deal with the publisher for rights. Our contracts allow artists to make and sell prints, and we're wide open to artists doing their own merch with their EP art, including art books. We want to enable that stuff, and it's the traditional RPG artist contract that usually gets in the way of it -- not the Creative Commons license that applies to the works that we distribute.
Ya i know i am broadly generalizing but i was trying to avoid dissecting legaleeze. I was also juxtaposing my experience with software and video game industry over into the tabletop area
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Sat, 2014-09-06 11:25
AdamJury AdamJury's picture
Fan, freelancer, and business
Fan, freelancer, and business reaction to us using a Creative Commons license has been almost entirely positive. There have been points where we've had to educate different people about it, but we knew that would be the case going in!
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Sat, 2014-09-06 14:52
kindalas kindalas's picture
obsidian razor wrote:Thanks!
obsidian razor wrote:
Thanks! That makes sense :) How is the latest (4th printing manual) different from a 1st edition? Asides from correcting things from the errata and such?
I'll add to Adam's answer to point out that the physical quality of the 3rd and 4th printing is a number of steps above the 1st and 2nd print run. The paper is much thicker. There are two bookmarks (in the 3rd and I assume the 4th) And the book feels awesome to use. The game table books are my 1st and 2nd printings. The "I'm introducing you to Eclipse Phase" is my copy of the 3rd printing. Kindalas
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Sat, 2014-09-06 20:05
jackgraham jackgraham's picture
The rules changes between
The rules changes between printings are relatively minor -- mostly errata, as you said. Probably the biggest thing that was changed were skill rolls, but this can be summed up pretty quickly. In 1p, skill rolls for most things outside of combat were roll under & roll as low as possible. At some point we changed it to, "roll under, and the number you roll if successful is then your MoS." Streamlines things a lot.
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J A C K   G R A H A M :: Hooray for Earth!   http://eclipsephase.com :: twitter @jackgraham @faketsr :: Google+Jack Graham
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Sat, 2014-09-06 20:27
ORCACommander ORCACommander's picture
Erulastant if you want i can
Erulastant if you want i can provide you with a copy of the third printing
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Sun, 2014-09-07 01:30
Erulastant Erulastant's picture
I got one, thanks.
I got one, thanks.
—
You, too, were made by humans. The methods used were just cruder, imprecise. I guess that explains a lot.
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