Welcome! These forums will be deactivated by the end of this year. The conversation continues in a new morph over on Discord! Please join us there for a more active conversation and the occasional opportunity to ask developers questions directly! Go to the PS+ Discord Server.

Other flexbot questions

8 posts / 0 new

Last post

Sun, 2014-08-31 01:58

ticktock

Other flexbot questions

So my questions about grimoire modules have been answered pretty well by now, but I'm still unclear on a few other things about flexbots. Unfortunately, I can only think of one of them right now, but here it is with the rest to follow later: Transhuman, pg. 209: Extend Limb: A flexbot can extend its limbs long enough to counter the reach advantage of an opponent one size larger without penalty. Similarly, a flexbot can extend far enough to gain a reach advantage against a same-sized opponent without penalty. Added limb length from the telescoping limbs modification is cumulative with an extension from shape adjusting. For each increment of length beyond 33% of volume that a limb is extended, add a −10 penalty to SOM-based tests using that limb, to a maximum of −30.
These penalties are halved for flexbots with the telescoping limbs modification and ignored entirely by bots with pneumatic limbs. What the hell does the bit I emphasized in the middle of the description mean? How do you measure length as a portion of volume? A standard flexbot module is 75 cm x 75 cm x 25 cm. How far can it extend a limb before the penalty kicks in? I guess I could just sidestep the issue by buying pneumatic limbs for all modules I ever use, but I want answers, dammit!

Sun, 2014-08-31 21:52

Hoarseman

Another Question

Applying the human model the arm span is normally about equal to your height. If you assume about 1/4 of the distance is the width of the torso then (75cm * .75)/2 (for the two arms) = 28.125cm which is 11.07 inches. Obviously not all modules will follow the human pattern and I'm making some major approximations but saying about a foot would probably fit for one module. What I'm curious about is the "Right at Home" trait (Eclipse Phase p.147) and how it interacts with the flex bot. If you buy it for "flex bot" then it seems extraordinarily powerful in that it nullifies many of the limitations on adding and removing modules. If it's limited to only one module then it becomes nearly useless unless bought many times. Would a possible solution be to buy it for a particular module and receive the bonus (no integ. or alienat. checks) only as long as the module the trait applies to is functional and part of the flex bot? Are their other options?

Mon, 2014-09-01 06:24

DivineWrath DivineWrath's picture

The utility of the "Right at

The utility of the "Right at Home" trait is questionable at times. Aside from finding a worth while morph to pick it for, there is also the problem of how it applies to morph variants and how it applies to flexbots. One might argue that a rewrite of it is needed. One could also argue that a rewrite of the modifiers to the resleeving table is needed. Of course, a total rewrite could be put off for a while if a bunch of traits suited for flexbots were made available. Some ideas: Exotic Morph Familiarity - This person is quite familiar with a type of exotic morphs, like flexbots, swarmarioids, or alien morphs. When selecting this trait, pick one type of exotic morph. The penalty for all alienation and integration for that kind of morph is reduced to -20 from -30. Cost 5 CP. Multi-Module User - This person is accustomed to using multiple modules in its flexbot forms. The integration penalty for having 4 or more flexbot modules is reduced by 10. Cost 10 CP.

Tue, 2014-09-02 00:09

ticktock

Hoarseman wrote:Applying the

Hoarseman wrote:
Applying the human model the arm span is normally about equal to your height. If you assume about 1/4 of the distance is the width of the torso then (75cm * .75)/2 (for the two arms) = 28.125cm which is 11.07 inches. Obviously not all modules will follow the human pattern and I'm making some major approximations but saying about a foot would probably fit for one module.

Hmm. I don't think that really answers my question. I'm not looking for the default length of a flexbot arm (well, not entirely); I'm wondering how to interpret RAW on how far they can extend before the SOM penalty kicks in. What is an "increment of length beyond 33% of volume"? I can't see how this is intended to be calculated.

Tue, 2014-09-02 00:13

ticktock

Double post

Dammit.

Wed, 2014-09-03 05:01

ubik2

33% of volume maybe should be 33% of length

I suspect this is just an incorrect word (volume). On page 208, there is a mention of compression of 33% in any dimension (reducing length from 75cm to 50cm). A similar 33% extension in any dimension would allow for a 25cm reach. I'd assume that the increment of length beyond 33% (or beyond 25cm) in this case is a multiple of that length. At 25cm, there would be no penalty, but at 50cm there would be a -10 and by 100cm, you would be at -30. Unfortunately, I'm not confident this is the way it was meant to be read. I based these numbers on the longest dimension (75cm), and they are still fairly small. Certainly a 100cm reach is impressive for a 75cm creature, but a 25cm reach seems typical for a 75cm creature, and a flexbot is supposed to have a reach advantage against such an opponent without penalty. Perhaps we're intended to assume the base limb is 25cm, and it can stretch another 25cm (to 50cm) without penalty, but at 75cm, there is a -10 penalty, and at 125cm, there is a -30 penalty.

Thu, 2014-09-04 09:59

Alan Wiggs Alan Wiggs's picture

I want my time back

I just spent the better part of an hour reading rules and plugging numbers until I realized that I simply don't care about RAW this much. Rule of fractal digit: A dog-sized flexbot can extend two arms and two legs long enough to match a human's without penalty, or one limb super long (say 75cm). If it tries to extend multiple extra limbs to human length, or one limb to, say, a full meter, it gets a -10 penalty. Extending four limbs to 75cm or one limb to 1.5m gets a -20 penalty. That's completely eyeballed and probably doesn't match up with the relevant volume numbers, but how often are you getting out the meter stick during play? I'd take the general idea of "are you spreading yourself thin? Here, have penalties or add modules" rather than trying to measure the volume of the total flexbot every time the player takes 5 action turns to change shape.

Tue, 2014-09-09 23:33

ticktock

Fair enough

I appreciate the effort. Looks like the consensus here is that RAW just doesn't work and I should handle the issue some other way if it ever arises. Next question - are there any character creators to be found online that include flexbot modules as morph options? Every one I've found so far has all the new morphs from Transhuman but only the original flexbot as found in the corebook.