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Firing 2 guns and the Ambidextrous Trait

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Sat, 2010-01-23 23:11

Samyueru

I've just had a read over the combat rules, and come across a rule that says you can fire multiple guns at the same target, but each attack after the first suffers a cumulative -20 penalty, but that this is offset by the Ambidextrous trait. Does that mean that if I have the trait, I don't suffer any penalties to the second (and possibly third, fourth or even more) attacks, or does it mean that the penalties are all reduced by 20? Thanks for any help in advance.

Sun, 2010-01-24 17:28

Haxar

Re: Firing 2 guns and the Ambidextrous Trait

I would guess, if you have three hands, the first attack is normal, the second is -20 and the third is -40. If you have ambidextrous, the first and second are normal and the third is -20. If you have ambidextrous twice (which you need for multiple limbs p.145), all attacks are normal, but if you gain a fourth arm, an attack using that is -20.

Sun, 2010-01-24 18:12

Samyueru

Re: Firing 2 guns and the Ambidextrous Trait

Haxar wrote:
I would guess, if you have three hands, the first attack is normal, the second is -20 and the third is -40. If you have ambidextrous, the first and second are normal and the third is -20. If you have ambidextrous twice (which you need for multiple limbs p.145), all attacks are normal, but if you gain a fourth arm, an attack using that is -20.

Ah I see, that actually makes a lot of sense. Thank you :).

Wed, 2010-01-27 21:09

Sepherim

Re: Firing 2 guns and the Ambidextrous Trait

Which reminds me that I never understood clearly if you can attack more than once per round of action if you do so with multiple weapons. So, if you have two guns, for example, do you fire them both with the same action, or do they require sepparate actions? And if you do fire both, both with the same roll or do they require different ones?

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Mon, 2010-02-01 06:33

Re: Firing 2 guns and the Ambidextrous Trait

I particularly wondered how a reaper for instance would use its 4 weapons mount. Is the idea to shoot all of them at the same time or to have flexibility in the choice of your weapon ?

Tue, 2010-03-09 09:40

Decivre

Re: Firing 2 guns and the Ambidextrous Trait

Sepherim wrote:
Which reminds me that I never understood clearly if you can attack more than once per round of action if you do so with multiple weapons. So, if you have two guns, for example, do you fire them both with the same action, or do they require sepparate actions? And if you do fire both, both with the same roll or do they require different ones?

Iv wrote:
I particularly wondered how a reaper for instance would use its 4 weapons mount. Is the idea to shoot all of them at the same time or to have flexibility in the choice of your weapon ?

You only take ambidexterity penalties when trying to fire with multiple weapons in the same action. That would be the point of it. Each weapon requires a different roll, and each one after the first has a cumulative -20 off-hand penalty (which is offset by 20 for every ambidextrous trait you take). And yeah, a reaper with 4 mounted weapons gets to fire all of them, but still must take offhand penalties despite not using hands. If you take enough ambidextrous traits, that bad boy really becomes the king of the battlefield.

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Transhumans will one day be the Luddites of the posthuman age. [url=http://bit.ly/2p3wk7c]Help me get my gaming fix, if you want.[/url]

Wed, 2010-03-10 13:34

killj0y

Re: Firing 2 guns and the Ambidextrous Trait

this does make a good point between off-handed penalties and iterative attack penalties. Most systems i've seen use a different penalty for each but this one combines the two then removes some of them mods/traits, curious. Ambidexterity is generally the ability to use either hand equally well. Multidexterity would be the same ability applied to a morph with more than 2 arms since the human brain isn't naturally wired to do spider like limb control. There should also be something of an ability to alpha strike if you're running a morph with mounted weapons. I'd imagine that some form of targeting mesh might be necessary but then you'd have linked weapons instead of having to manually fire each of them. Of course if you take the penalty you could then shoot at different targets without having to aim all around you. What I would like to know is was the penalty created as a way to limit iterative attacks from two-gun mojo or is this simply a streamlined system to prevent iterative attacks from being overpowered?

Wed, 2010-03-10 13:57

Decivre

Re: Firing 2 guns and the Ambidextrous Trait

killj0y wrote:
this does make a good point between off-handed penalties and iterative attack penalties. Most systems i've seen use a different penalty for each but this one combines the two then removes some of them mods/traits, curious. Ambidexterity is generally the ability to use either hand equally well. Multidexterity would be the same ability applied to a morph with more than 2 arms since the human brain isn't naturally wired to do spider like limb control. There should also be something of an ability to alpha strike if you're running a morph with mounted weapons. I'd imagine that some form of targeting mesh might be necessary but then you'd have linked weapons instead of having to manually fire each of them. Of course if you take the penalty you could then shoot at different targets without having to aim all around you. What I would like to know is was the penalty created as a way to limit iterative attacks from two-gun mojo or is this simply a streamlined system to prevent iterative attacks from being overpowered?

I think it's just a streamlined system for any use of multiple weapons. Ambidexterity does not take into account your actual "main hand", or demand that players assign their off-hand to specific weapons. It simplifies it down to "second one on is off-hand", which is pretty functional. I doubt it really serves to make iterative attacks less powerful, since there are plenty of scenarios in which this wouldn't do much (using zero ammo as an octopus with multiple phases pretty much neutralizes all of these penalties, and then some, over the course of multiple phases of gunfire).

—

Transhumans will one day be the Luddites of the posthuman age. [url=http://bit.ly/2p3wk7c]Help me get my gaming fix, if you want.[/url]

Sat, 2010-04-03 17:16

Cloud and Water Cloud and Water's picture

Re: Firing 2 guns and the Ambidextrous Trait

So if you're using a pistol in each hand, can you fire each one twice in semi-auto mode without penalty or does the second shot from the offhand weapon accrue the -20 modifier? The portion on using 2 ranged weapons states each weapon is handled as a separate attack, and the semi auto description says they can fire twice with one complex action, but each shot is handled as a different attack.

Sun, 2010-04-04 02:24

#10

Decivre

Re: Firing 2 guns and the Ambidextrous Trait

Cloud and Water wrote:
So if you're using a pistol in each hand, can you fire each one twice in semi-auto mode without penalty or does the second shot from the offhand weapon accrue the -20 modifier? The portion on using 2 ranged weapons states each weapon is handled as a separate attack, and the semi auto description says they can fire twice with one complex action, but each shot is handled as a different attack.

If you have one ambidextrous trait and two hands, you are fine. The only time you may need more ambidextrous traits is if you acquire more hands, in which case you will always have cumulative penalties on every arm past the first (n+1, where n is the number of ambidextrous traits you have) arms. You may fire any given weapon without off-hand penalties as many times as you wish without penalty, as long as that weapon is not one of them that has exceeded your limit on ambidextrous hands.

—

Transhumans will one day be the Luddites of the posthuman age. [url=http://bit.ly/2p3wk7c]Help me get my gaming fix, if you want.[/url]

Sun, 2010-04-11 19:19

#11

UpliftedOctopi UpliftedOctopi's picture

Re: Firing 2 guns and the Ambidextrous Trait

I was going to houserule that, when using pistols, if the cost of two smartlinks are added to the guns and ambidexterity is taken then the attacks can be against different targets. But then I saw that when gun is SA or BF then they can attack separate targets anyways (just at a -20) since they get two shots(bursts) per complex action anyways. Has anyone used this mechanic and do you have any critique on its balance/effectiveness?

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Fri, 2010-07-02 03:24

#12

cenrae

Re: Firing 2 guns and the Ambidextrous Trait

How is everyone addressign the issue of targets with multiple ranged weapons? The rules say the SAME target. So if you are that octomorph with 8 arms and 4 assault rifle you fire all of the at the same target.

Fri, 2010-07-02 03:28

#13

cenrae

Re: Firing 2 guns and the Ambidextrous Trait

Well it does also say "may" in the same sentence. I’m still interested it others opinions.

Fri, 2010-07-02 08:46

#14

nezumi.hebereke nezumi.hebereke's picture

Re: Firing 2 guns and the Ambidextrous Trait

I would limit it to the same target, unless the character has some heavy modification to permit simultaneous processing and actions. You can't shoot two separate targets at the same time any more effectively than you can read two separate books at the same time. You read a little of one, then a little of the other. Ambidextrous just lets you put more lead downrange at your (single) selected target.

Fri, 2010-07-02 14:34

#15

cenrae

Re: Firing 2 guns and the Ambidextrous Trait

Thats how I feel too. Though in the movies you always see some pistol/SMG fool shooting to the left and right at the same time killing the fodder... :) I have a player or two that won't like the 'same' target ruling.

Fri, 2010-07-02 21:16

#16

Decivre

Re: Firing 2 guns and the Ambidextrous Trait

cenrae wrote:
How is everyone addressign the issue of targets with multiple ranged weapons? The rules say the SAME target. So if you are that octomorph with 8 arms and 4 assault rifle you fire all of the at the same target.

Off-hand and multiple target penalties stack. If you fire 4 guns at 8 targets, with 2 targets per gun, you take a 0 and -20 penalty with the first gun, -60 and -80 penalty with the second gun, -120 and -140 penalty with the third gun, and -180 and -200 penalty with the fourth.

—

Transhumans will one day be the Luddites of the posthuman age. [url=http://bit.ly/2p3wk7c]Help me get my gaming fix, if you want.[/url]

Mon, 2011-02-21 17:12

#17

Prime Mover Prime Mover's picture

Re: Firing 2 guns and the Ambidextrous Trait

Reaper with 4 weapon mounts, player and 3 AI's running the guns. Let's user designate targets and does away with penalties. Let's you be battlefield king without having to suck up cost of multiple ambidex's.

—

"The difference between truth and fiction, people expect fiction to make sense."

Mon, 2011-02-21 18:37

#18

sjmcc13

Re: Firing 2 guns and the Ambidextrous Trait

Prime Mover wrote:
Reaper with 4 weapon mounts, player and 3 AI's running the guns. Let's user designate targets and does away with penalties. Let's you be battlefield king without having to suck up cost of multiple ambidex's.

it would be fine, except that out of the AI's in the main book, only 2 have a weapon skill, and that is at 40. So you you are not going to get the same level of effect from an AI as you would from ambidexterity, assuming you have a maxed skill of 80, with 1 ambidexterity for 10 points (and not losable) you would have 4 attacks at 80/80/60/40, without ambidexterity the best you could get is 80/60/40/40 with 1 AI (high cost)

Tue, 2011-02-22 14:44

#19

Wyldknight Wyldknight's picture

Re: Firing 2 guns and the Ambidextrous Trait

Why make it a basic AI? You could do the same thing with a few modified ghost riders and some Beta Forks.

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