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Eclipse Phase -> Traveller Conversion

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Tue, 2014-07-29 11:05

Ataraxzy

Eclipse Phase -> Traveller Conversion

Thought there might be someone out there who would be interested in a conversion of EP's rules to Traveller. I'm still working on how I want to model morphs, but the basic rules are in place to get started. Major upcoming updates: Morphs (got several 'done' already, but the rules for them are a bit in flux) Modeling Stress EDIT: New Site: https://sites.google.com/site/transmigrationfactor/ MUCH better. Dropbox was giving me fits. EDIT2: Major update.

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Tue, 2014-07-29 12:22

OneTrikPony OneTrikPony's picture

I was realy excited until I

I was realy excited until I realized which direction you were going. Which traveler mechanics are you using? Out of curiosity; can I ask why you like that 2d6 system over the EP d100?

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Mea Culpa: My mode of speech can make others feel uninvited to argue or participate. This is the EXACT opposite of what I intend when I post.

Tue, 2014-07-29 12:48

Ataraxzy

It's EP's Mechanics.

The 2d6 system is simple, and fast, EP's system is, IMO, overly fiddly. By converting from a complicated and monolithic d100 system, where the GM's time is taken up with system mastery, to a simple and heterogeneous 2d6 system, I can take advantage of what I like about EP and marry it with what I like about Traveller. For EP it's the excellent trope of separating ego from body and its explicit dealing with the mental aspects of being a transhuman. For Traveller, it's the non-monolithic systems design: every system has a separate mechanic, which makes them optional, as opposed to (in the extreme case) something like 4e D&D where you could break the whole system with an ill advised house rule. As well, there's the unbelievable amount of usable stuff available for Traveller, several decades' worth; it's simply more efficient to convert EP to Traveller than to attempt to go the other way 'round.

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Tue, 2014-07-29 15:32

GenUGenics GenUGenics's picture

Ataraxzy wrote:The 2d6 system

Ataraxzy wrote:
The 2d6 system is simple, and fast, EP's system is, IMO, overly fiddly.

I felt similar about it (there's, what, ten different combat skills?). Love the setting, but was having a difficult time—for example—understanding how COG was conceptually and intuitively different from INT or how each was different from SAV. IMO, the trouble with Trav is there just not enough boost or dimension on the d6 probability curve, and then you've got to factor all those dice modifiers, which DO require conversion. I think the mechanic would be a bit "cramped" to really model the morph characteristics with a dimension that did them justice. Could be wrong. FWIW, I did a cross to BRP/CoC, which is nice in that most of the d100 stats come right over without much conversion.

Tue, 2014-07-29 17:20

Ataraxzy

GenUGenics wrote:...was

GenUGenics wrote:
...was having a difficult time—for example—understanding how COG was conceptually and intuitively different from INT or how each was different from SAV.

My experience matches yours.

GenUGenics wrote:
IMO, the trouble with Trav is there just not enough boost or dimension on the d6 probability curve, and then you've got to factor all those dice modifiers, which DO require conversion. I think the mechanic would be a bit "cramped" to really model the morph characteristics with a dimension that did them justice. Could be wrong.

Nailed it. Right now, this is exactly the challenge I'm facing. EP has human average Aptitudes at 15/30. Traveller's are 7/12. So far so good. The problem I'm running into is that FLATS in EP and 'Human Being' in Traveller are modeled very differently. Flats in EP have an Aptitude max of 20. If I made Flats in Traveller have an Attribute max of 9 (something roughly statistically equivalent), I've fundamentally changed what it means to be 'human' in Traveller (because a 'human' in Traveller can have a STR of B(12) easy) and, while I could do that without breaking the system, I'd break compatibility with the rest of Traveller, which goes against one of the design goals, which is "Provide a Drop-In system for Traveller so people can play Eclipse Phase without so much as a moderately long glance at the rules - either of them'. It's a tough problem.

GenUGenics wrote:
FWIW, I did a cross to BRP/CoC, which is nice in that most of the d100 stats come right over without much conversion.

Ooooh, nice! I wish my conversion were that easy.

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Tue, 2014-07-29 18:04

GenUGenics GenUGenics's picture

Ataraxzy wrote:It's a tough

Ataraxzy wrote:
It's a tough problem.

Yes; I think you'll need a bit more "run out" at the far end of the range to model the advantages certain brands of morphs confer to egos. With a BRP/CoC conversion you can easily bolt on those "nickel and dime" morph advantages right out of the book and they're still pretty balanced for play. Unconverted weapons are a bit hellish: You die. But that seems to be my experience with EP RAW quite a bit of the time. :) It's not a deal breaker by any means, but Trav IIRC does not have a clean way to model the sanity damage of exurgent threats. Easy enough to address, I reckon.

Tue, 2014-07-29 21:11

Ataraxzy

GenUGenics wrote:Ataraxzy

GenUGenics wrote:
Yes; I think you'll need a bit more "run out" at the far end of the range to model the advantages certain brands of morphs confer to egos.

Yup. I don't mind bumping things up to an occasional STR H(17).

Quote:
With a BRP/CoC conversion you can easily bolt on those "nickel and dime" morph advantages right out of the book and they're still pretty balanced for play. Unconverted weapons are a bit hellish: You die. But that seems to be my experience with EP RAW quite a bit of the time. :)

One of the things I love about Traveller, deadly combat, even with cortical stacks.

Quote:
It's not a deal breaker by any means, but Trav IIRC does not have a clean way to model the sanity damage of exurgent threats. Easy enough to address, I reckon.

I'm using that as an excuse to try out a new mechanic. If physical combat damages mental stats, horror and social combat should damage the mental ones. Traveller's Stats-as-HP is genius: as you lose HP, your abilities degrade naturally, it's a crime that they never detailed a social combat system.

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Wed, 2014-07-30 02:06

Jay Dugger Jay Dugger's picture

"FWIW, I did a cross to BRP

"FWIW, I did a cross to BRP/CoC, which is nice in that most of the d100 stats come right over without much conversion." Have you made this available to the public? I would like to see it, please.

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Wed, 2014-07-30 02:08

Jay Dugger Jay Dugger's picture

Woo-hoo! Emacs and Org!

Woo-hoo! Emacs and Org! Which version of Traveller does this use?

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Wed, 2014-07-30 12:44

#10

GenUGenics GenUGenics's picture

Have you made this available

Jay Dugger wrote:
Have you made this available to the public? I would like to see it, please.

No, I’ve not made it available. I’m not a game designer, although I understand them mechanically. I feel like offering a white paper on it would be a bit presumptuous and disrespectful; I really do love the setting but my brain favors a simpler mechanic for fast-n-loose narration. That said, and at the risk of hijacking this great thread, it’s a pretty straight forward and not at all difficult conversion: COG = INTelligence (2d6+6) SAV = CHArisma (3d6) WIL = POWer (3d6) REF = DEXterity (3d6) These represent attributes innate to the ego. DEX is there because it determines initiative even for infomorphs. To these I add EDUcation, mostly to give another dimension to a personality and personal history (academics vs streetwise). Relevant skills base off the higher of INT or EDU. A little clumsier, the morph aptitudes break down: COO = STRength (3d6), due to the way STR+DEX define the base of most combat skills. SOM = CONstitution (3d6) SIZ = 2d6+6 for baseline humans (CON + SIZ)/2 = hit points, and you can see how powerfully these can get augmented by the morph bonuses. (INT + POW) = SAN. These are basically hit points for your ego. Unlike CoC, they don’t drain inevitably and can be restored through Psychosurgery. POW governs the Moxie points and helps shape the Psi powers. (POW is magic in BRP). Equipment more or less transfers straight across from the rules without issue. Morph bonuses can be brought straight across and applied without breaking anything. If you run up over 100% on anything, it just increases your capacity to crit. Your Muse is INT DEX and POW (the last to define its SAN points and other “intangibles.”) The other ego attributes seem a little “personal” to me. YMMV. From here, you should be able to use nearly any BRP-ish system. Skills are factored from their bases, and bought up with points—just like EP, but around 275 rather than 1,000 (spread across a smaller number of more generalized skills). I actually use the OpenQuest SRD because I like the stripped down skills sets and simplified combat rules. There’s a ton of free or low cost ($1) supplements out there on all manner of weapons to please any gun bunny, but I’ve found you can use the EP weapons as written... combat just becomes extraordinarily non-survivable for biomorphs. SPEED is one thing that vexes me, and the only way it seems to address it is to treat the Dodge skill like Fray. Speed seems like it is an issue in any version of EP because it tends to be inflationary... everyone wants it, and at the max. Modeling the hacking sequence (and jamming) has been another challenge, because it is such an important part of EP, but the BRP/OQ way would be to gloss it. I’ve ‘ported over some specialized Networking skills to boost its importance in play. I allow almost anything straight out of the books—try hard not to modify— except weapons, which are tuned for BRP. Because I love the setting, I am pretty darn loose about allowing just about everything out of the books and enforcing the post-scarcity, post-singularity concepts.

Wed, 2014-07-30 14:14

#11

Ataraxzy

Jay Dugger wrote:Woo-hoo!

Jay Dugger wrote:
Woo-hoo! Emacs and Org!

I know, right!? If people only knew how bloody powerful Org was...

Jay Dugger wrote:
Which version of Traveller does this use?

MgT is my base system, but given the heterogeneous nature of Traveller rules in general, you should be able to drop them in anywhere, CT especially.

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Wed, 2014-07-30 14:28

#12

Ataraxzy

GenUGenics wrote:but I’ve

GenUGenics wrote:
but I’ve found you can use the EP weapons as written... combat just becomes extraordinarily non-survivable for biomorphs.

As it should be. :D Well, IMO.

Quote:
SPEED is one thing that vexes me, and the only way it seems to address it is to treat the Dodge skill like Fray. Speed seems like it is an issue in any version of EP because it tends to be inflationary... everyone wants it, and at the max.

Speed-as-more-actions is almost universally a mistake in RPGs.

Quote:
Modeling the hacking sequence (and jamming) has been another challenge, because it is such an important part of EP, but the BRP/OQ way would be to gloss it. I’ve ‘ported over some specialized Networking skills to boost its importance in play.

Design from effect, not from causes. What does the character want to do? Black out the lights in a section of a ship? Then the design should model that, not the link type or the network topography. If you like, give them access to equipment to make things easier/harder for them, that way the deckers can have their Techno-porn too. That way, from the player's perspective, everything they want is modeled - cool actions, cool toys. And from the GM's perspective, everything you don't want isn't modeled: Figuring out a 'complete' network topography for every damn location the PC's visit, or worse, having to come up with one on the fly because, as usual, the PCs are off the reservation.

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Wed, 2014-07-30 15:04

#13

GenUGenics GenUGenics's picture

Design from effect, not from causes

Ataraxzy wrote:
Design from effect, not from causes. ... give them access to equipment to make things easier/harder for them... That way, from the player's perspective, everything they want is modeled - cool actions, cool toys.

Good advice; but in EP world the groovy tools are just as easy to lay hands on as anything. Just fab ‘em up. The real issue is trying to do anything at all under duress or time constraints. Given enough time and resources, any attempt to do anything will succeed, particularly in a world filled with ubiquitous and helpful AIs. The BRP/OQ way is that skills come into play “when it is dramatically appropriate and raises tension within the game... or “where there are definite consequences to a failed skill test.” Traveller is like this, too. To its credit, EP RAW advises this as well (p. 115), but the abundance of skills and all the teeny-tiny stacking multipliers seem IMO to argue against fast-n-loose play. Good luck with your project. I played and played and played Traveller back in the day, but I don't find the +/-DMs as immediately intuitive as other systems. :)

Thu, 2014-07-31 21:14

#14

Ataraxzy

Major Updates

Got a bunch of morphs in. Got a bunch of augments in. Split the rules into two pages: General rules & Morph rules. Added sidebar navigation.

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Thu, 2014-07-31 23:06

#15

Ataraxzy

GenUGenics wrote:Ataraxzy

GenUGenics wrote:
Ataraxzy wrote:
Design from effect, not from causes. ... give them access to equipment to make things easier/harder for them... That way, from the player's perspective, everything they want is modeled - cool actions, cool toys.
Good advice; but in EP world the groovy tools are just as easy to lay hands on as anything. Just fab ‘em up.

I think that the trick here is to make things better horizontally, not vertically: give different pieces of equipment different capabilities and drawbacks, not just better hacking capabilities.

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Sat, 2014-08-09 01:30

#16

Chrontius

GenUGenics wrote:Ataraxzy

GenUGenics wrote:
Ataraxzy wrote:
Design from effect, not from causes. ... give them access to equipment to make things easier/harder for them... That way, from the player's perspective, everything they want is modeled - cool actions, cool toys.
Good advice; but in EP world the groovy tools are just as easy to lay hands on as anything. Just fab ‘em up. The real issue is trying to do anything at all under duress or time constraints. Given enough time and resources, any attempt to do anything will succeed, particularly in a world filled with ubiquitous and helpful AIs. The BRP/OQ way is that skills come into play “when it is dramatically appropriate and raises tension within the game... or “where there are definite consequences to a failed skill test.” Traveller is like this, too. To its credit, EP RAW advises this as well (p. 115), but the abundance of skills and all the teeny-tiny stacking multipliers seem IMO to argue against fast-n-loose play. Good luck with your project. I played and played and played Traveller back in the day, but I don't find the +/-DMs as immediately intuitive as other systems. :)

Firewall: An organization dedicated to diving head-first into duress, on short notice, to deal with problems that have had plenty of time to prepare. ;)