DivineWrath wrote:

No, it seems that you have to buy these as normal. I see nothing to suggest that they get to be an exception. Fortunately, because you are designing a morphs with them, you get to pay 1/4 the normal rate for them (see step 10 and step 13). Not free, but not full price either.

Thanks. Rounding-up, the cost is usually only about 1CP and 1000 credits. I was more curious about how to interpret or apply the core rulebook's references that Standard Augmentations are included free in most morphs. Considering the price, they are simply very, very cheap in relation to the total cost of a morph (but do use up 3-4 Moderate cost augmentation slots).

ShadowDragon8685 wrote:

What really bugs me is the implication that you have to buy the mandatory extras. Bio-mods, cortical stack, mesh inserts, those are understandable. But when you buy a cyberbrain, it should include, at neither extra charge nor extra slot cost, the things inherent in a cyberbrain - access jacks, mnemonic enhancements... Those are all part and parcel of the nature of it being a [i]cyber[/i]brain.

I do not believe that you have to separately buy the cited augmentations when purchasing a cyberbrain. As per the text in the core rulebook, the items appear to be included in the cost of the cyberbrain, but simply listed separably on the character sheet to denote their availability. EP, p. 300-1 (emphasis added)

Quote:

CYBERBRAIN Cybernetic brains are where the ego (or controlling AI) resides in synthmorphs and pods. Modeled on biological brains, cyberbrains have a holistic architecture and serve as the command node and central processing point for sensory input and decision-making. Only one ego or AI may “inhabit” a cyberbrain at a time; to accommodate extras, mesh inserts (p. 300) or aghostrider module (p. 307)must be used. Since cyberbrains store memories digitally, they have the equivalent of mnemonic augmentation (p. 307). They also have a built-in puppet sock (p. 307) and may be remote-controlled, though this option may be removed by those who value their security. Cyberbrains are vulnerable to cyberbrain hacking (p. 261)and other forms of electronic infiltration/ attack. Cyberbrains come equipped with two or more pairs of external access jacks (p. 306), usually located at the base of the skull, which allow for direct wired connections. [Moderate, but included for free in all synthetic morphs and pods]

DivineWrath wrote:

Well, the morph creation rules don't seem to support that either. Since I'm kinda working on an improved version of the rules, I could set aside a rule that says that standard gear (like mesh inserts and cyberbrains) is either free or 1 cp covers them all.

I'm a little confused by your response? Do you believe that items such as mnemonic augmentation, access jacks and puppet socks need to be purchased separately from the cyberbrain under the Morph Creation rules? That not only seems inconsistent with the cyberbrain text, but would add demonstrable cost to pods and synths under the morph creation system.

DivineWrath wrote:

I don't believe they are free. The morph creation rules don't explicitly say that they are free, so I'm assuming that they are not. If they were free, then the rules should have covered such a fact. Also, the cost to add a cyberbrain, Mnemonic Augmentation, Access Jacks, and Puppet Sock using morph creation rules works out to be 1 cp or 1000 cr. That is the same price as buying a cyberbrain as an after market modification. The only thing you are losing out on is augmentation slots during morph design.

That would be pretty significant, particularly for a pod that would need to buy: Basic Biomods Basic Mesh Inserts Cortical Stack Cyberbrain -Mnemonic Augmentation -Access Jacks -Puppet Sock Apart from credit and CP costs, that's five moderate and two low priced augmentation slots before you really even begin! I believe that you are correct that Standard Augmentations need to be purchased, but I'm less certain about need to separately purchase the individual items that are explicitly included in a cyberbrain. Another question: Is there any additional cost to have additional limbs on a biomorph or pod? For instance, under Advantages, octomorphs have 8 arms under and novacrabs have 10 legs, but I do not see any Traits (or even bioware or cyberware) to represent the purported advantage of the extra limbs. Conversely, synths must purchase Extra Limbs (EP, p.310-11) for even a single limb.

DivineWrath wrote:

branford wrote:

Apart from credit and CP costs, that's five moderate and two low priced augmentation slots before you really even begin!

You forget. The morph creation rules makes most augmentations cost 1/4 the normal price. Likewise, pods are required to take a negative trait, Social Stigma (Pods), which would give more cp to than those augments take.

branford wrote:

Is there any additional cost to have additional limbs on a biomorph or pod? For instance, under Advantages, octomorphs have 8 arms under and novacrabs have 10 legs, but I do not see any Traits (or even bioware or cyberware) to represent the purported advantage of the extra limbs. Conversely, synths must purchase Extra Limbs (EP, p.310-11) for even a single limb.

Not covered either. The closest you get is natural weapons, but I don't recall octopus tentacles having a price...

Thanks. Also, I would only think the Octomorphs "six additional" tentacles might have a Trait cost. :)