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Pod Brothels vs Simulspace; why?

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uwtartarus uwtartarus's picture
Pod Brothels vs Simulspace; why?
Why are there physical brothels, staffed by pleasure pods and possibly Neotenics (squick!), when someone can make a living crafting better than life (BTL ala Shadowrun) digital constructs, id est Simulspace recreations. Paying a maintenance on a Pod is definitely more expensive than a bit of server space. So why do pod brothels exist in the setting?
Exhuman, and Humanitarian.
ShadowDragon8685 ShadowDragon8685's picture
For the same reason physical
For the same reason physical brothels still exist today in places where you can just order a fleshlight.
Skype and AIM names: Exactly the same as my forum name. [url=http://tinyurl.com/mfcapss]My EP Character Questionnaire[/url] [url=http://tinyurl.com/lbpsb93]Thread for my Questionnaire[/url] [url=http://tinyurl.com/obu5adp]The Five Orange Pips[/url]
Urthdigger Urthdigger's picture
There's plenty of other
There's plenty of other activities we do offline that could be recreated in simulspace: fine food, sports... Heck, the books make a point of saying that being stuck as an infomorph blows, and that living space and a body is something many save up for. It's possible that even in the future, VR just doesn't compare to real experiences.
Jaberwo Jaberwo's picture
I tend to say that a lifelike
I tend to say that a lifelike simulspace requires just as much effort as the real thing, maybe even more so but at less cost in physical resources. So it depends on your situation and preferences where you should go for your entertainment.
uwtartarus uwtartarus's picture
I suppose. With the
I suppose. With the prevalence of synthmorphs, I imagine that VR is used more. But without a clear explanation of how much effort is required to do what, psychosurgery makes the wireheas thing a possible way to bypass the dangers of brothels and all of it. I should just go with that explanation, Jaberwo. Good simulspaces require a real artistic knack and a lot of skill. And pod indentures are just cheaper.
Exhuman, and Humanitarian.
ORCACommander ORCACommander's picture
xp and simulspace programs
xp and simulspace programs can only capture so much detail. a bodies sensor net is defiantly more complex and sophisticated and dense than what the recorders or playback hardware can capture and recreate. With simspace the uncanny valley applies. i admit that sometimes i get completely absorbed in what i am doing that i try and use my cursor as my hand and try and scratch my back with it. then i realize it can't and the illusion is broken. now for those with bodies the orgasm would also not be the same. either they got something more sophisticated than real doll to play with their parts which will probably have the friction subtly off or they have nothing and they will feel that nothing even as their brain is telling them otherwise. a sensory dichotomy
nezumi.hebereke nezumi.hebereke's picture
Why do you play tabletop RPGs
Why do you play tabletop RPGs when it's more convenient and quicker to do CRPGs? Because you're still trapped within the designer's script.
uwtartarus uwtartarus's picture
As a huge proponent for
As a huge proponent for tabletop RPGs over MMOs, I have to admit you got a solid point, nezumi.hebereke.
Exhuman, and Humanitarian.
ShadowDragon8685 ShadowDragon8685's picture
I kind of feel obliged to
I kind of feel obliged to point out that with all the neural mapping that's been done, simulspace should be capable of simulating any real sensations, and there's nothing stopping you from using indentured infomorph sex slaves rather than AIs...
Skype and AIM names: Exactly the same as my forum name. [url=http://tinyurl.com/mfcapss]My EP Character Questionnaire[/url] [url=http://tinyurl.com/lbpsb93]Thread for my Questionnaire[/url] [url=http://tinyurl.com/obu5adp]The Five Orange Pips[/url]
uwtartarus uwtartarus's picture
That was whqt I thought,
That was what I thought, Shadowdragon, so I was confused by the setting stuff. It is sort of a toss up. The brothels exist and they fit my plots, I just wanted an explanation in case my players ask.
Exhuman, and Humanitarian.
ShadowDragon8685 ShadowDragon8685's picture
Simply put, because people
Simply put, because people can be traditional about these things sometimes. You're not just paying for an orgasm, you're paying to fuck a flesh and blood (and smart matter and electrons) [i]person[/i].
Skype and AIM names: Exactly the same as my forum name. [url=http://tinyurl.com/mfcapss]My EP Character Questionnaire[/url] [url=http://tinyurl.com/lbpsb93]Thread for my Questionnaire[/url] [url=http://tinyurl.com/obu5adp]The Five Orange Pips[/url]
Chernoborg Chernoborg's picture
Could be that a simulation
Could be that a simulation doesn't affect the patron' s physicality at all just their mind. In one of the old Cyberpunk books someone commented that they spent lots of time with "Virtual Vicki" and then could go home to their girlfriend still ..um...ready to go!
Current Status: Highly Distracted building Gatecrashing systems in Universe Sandbox!
uwtartarus uwtartarus's picture
In the Takeshi Kovacs series
In the Takeshi Kovacs series he spends time in a virtual reality and it does affect his physical state, so I bet they could go either way with simulations.
Exhuman, and Humanitarian.
DrewDavis DrewDavis's picture
Because...
... even though the simulation seems real and perfect you know at the end of the day it is not real. For some people that is a great reason to interact "in the flesh". For others that's a great reason to use a simulspace.
Noble Pigeon Noble Pigeon's picture
The same reason why
The same reason why restaurants and bars and such will always exist. Humans are social creatures, and while VR and XP can be as good as real life, in the flesh is preferable by instinct alone. Hell I'd even wager that things like movie theaters still exist in some form, although now it would be more focused on AR than a movie screen. I guarantee that if a transhuman future involves the extinction of honest to god bars and nightclubs in favor of entirely mesh-based social interactions because "we've evolved beyond such trivial matters", consider me a radical biocon in that future.
"Don't believe everything you read on the Internet.” -Abraham Lincoln, State of the Union address
Holy Holy's picture
A friend once told me: The
A friend once told me: The only thing that can fully simulate the world is the world; i. e. in order to simulate a system of a certain complexity you need a system of at least the same level of complexity to simulate it. I very much doubt that any simulation in the foreseeable future will be indistinguishable from the real thing.
Erulastant Erulastant's picture
But you don't need to
But you don't need to simulate above a certain resolution (Which is much higher than the Universe's resolution). You are also not simulating the whole world, just a nice room with a bed and some naked people.
You, too, were made by humans. The methods used were just cruder, imprecise. I guess that explains a lot.
ShadowDragon8685 ShadowDragon8685's picture
Noble Pigeon wrote:I
Noble Pigeon wrote:
I guarantee that if a transhuman future involves the extinction of honest to god bars and nightclubs in favor of entirely mesh-based social interactions because "we've evolved beyond such trivial matters", consider me a radical biocon in that future.
Considering that cities on Titan are notable for their [i]thriving[/i] night life, I wouldn't call you a radical biocon. Hell, Bibliophile has this great idea of a talented chef moving to an anarchist hab and quickly racing up the @-Rep simply by opening a kitchen and feeding everybody genuinely cooked meals. I think it's a great idea. (And his descriptions of the stuff on offer made me super-hungry.)
Skype and AIM names: Exactly the same as my forum name. [url=http://tinyurl.com/mfcapss]My EP Character Questionnaire[/url] [url=http://tinyurl.com/lbpsb93]Thread for my Questionnaire[/url] [url=http://tinyurl.com/obu5adp]The Five Orange Pips[/url]
Kremlin K.O.A. Kremlin K.O.A.'s picture
Because in simulspace, there
Because in simulspace, there is no real suffering being caused.
ORCACommander ORCACommander's picture
goes back to a bit on
goes back to a bit on psychology there kremlin about before a serial killer makes his first kill one can only fantasize for so long
Lorsa Lorsa's picture
The question might as well be
The question might as well be "why does anyone live outside of a simulspace at all?". Psychologically, many humans have a tendency to prefer the real over the fantasy, no matter how good the fantasy is. As for sex in specific, I guess that has to do with two things. First off due to how simulspace works it is possible that if you are simply accessing it but normally living in a biomorph you might experience all the sensations of an orgasm but due to your brain basically being hijacked your body might not respond accordingly. The game doesn't state anything either way, but perhaps simulspace sex doesn't come with real-world ejaculation, male or female alike or won't cause your body to produce the same extreme oxytocin release you get with normal sex. Thus a simulspace experience might help with a psychological need but not cure the physical need. The second reason is cost. Really good simulspaces are difficult to construct and maintain. According to the EP core, a simulspace account can be fairly costly whereas a quick session with a pleasure pod (which are very cheap to buy for the brothel) is most likely a trivial cost. Sure, in the long run it might add up and make the simulspace cheaper, but if you only look to scratch your itch a couple times per week then a brothel is probably just as cheap if not more so. Just because you can hijack a brain and build simulspaces, it doesn't mean you can build very GOOD simulspaces. Making pleasure pods is a tried and working way, AND it provides real physical sex and not just the sensation thereof. Nevertheless, I imagine there are plenty of people in the transhuman future of EP that prefers simulspace experiences to real ones. People are different so there are things that cater to everyone. In one of my campaigns, there was a brothel that offered you to experience "a day in the life of a pleasure pod" by sleeving into a ghostrider module of one of their workers for a day. A friendly but somewhat crazy hacker friend of the player got his morph stolen while he was spending a day with one such pleasure pod since he left it at home and forgot to lock his door. He was great with mesh security but unfortunately a bit absent-minded when it comes to physical world security.
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Xagroth Xagroth's picture
Physical brothels exists
Physical brothels exists because the need for them exists. This need can come from very different paths, like: Security: VR makes it easier to mess with your ego (egonapping, psychosurgery, etc...). Flesh & blood interactions are safer (unless you count Basilisk Hacks, wich are a rumor for most people, or boning a special ops sleeved ego with enough gear at hand to pull some sort of Inception move) and easier to control. Custom: they existed before, and so they are needed. Call it nostalgia for the pre-Fall era, a way to keep the masses at bay, or whatever you want: in the end they are there because they have always been there. Front: tons of people coming in and coming out? Tell me of a best place for spies, criminals and other people who want the anonimity a large group of people want with the privacy a room for sex includes. Hell on "Earth": too many infugees, too few bodies... and somplace where you can keep your enemies' egos suffering and desperate. People psychology: some people just want to "control" someone, at least for a little time (24/7 can be exhausting after all), and doing it in VR is not the same (Disconnection, or boning a VR construct designed to react in certain ways to certain stimuli, etc...). People's wants 'n needs: the same reason people keep living in the flesh. Those who want to live into VRs are already doing it a-la-brinker, and other people simply can't leave a playing field unattended (so as long as somebody works in the physical, some people will feel compelled to do the same). Also... What makes you all think that EP is not a huge simulspace inside a TITAN-controlled box, and the 96% of humanity that escaped are in fact those who managed to avoid being "head-hugged" by TITANspawn? And all the "transhumanity" is just a giant experiment one or more TITAN intelligences are fiddling with... or trying to understand humanity...
Leng Plateau Leng Plateau's picture
Xagroth wrote:What makes you
Xagroth wrote:
What makes you all think that EP is not a huge simulspace inside a TITAN-controlled box, and the 96% of humanity that escaped are in fact those who managed to avoid being "head-hugged" by TITANspawn? And all the "transhumanity" is just a giant experiment one or more TITAN intelligences are fiddling with... or trying to understand humanity...
Finally someone is listening to me! It's obvious when you think about it. Look around you, are most of those people really people or are they simulations? Don't trust the NPCs, they lie.
At least with Lovecraft, nobody pretends the gods are nice. And wherever you end up, there is guaranteed to be tentacles.
MAD Crab MAD Crab's picture
I knew it wouldn't be long
I knew it wouldn't be long before that drew Thule out...
Leng Plateau Leng Plateau's picture
Like a radioactive crab to a nuclear weapon
Just like a radioactive crab to a nuclear weapon...
At least with Lovecraft, nobody pretends the gods are nice. And wherever you end up, there is guaranteed to be tentacles.
uwtartarus uwtartarus's picture
That's a good list! Some of
That's a good list! Some of those should've been so obvious to me. Unsettling to think too much about the reality twist there at the end.
Exhuman, and Humanitarian.