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Bioship creation

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templariomaster templariomaster's picture
Bioship creation
So, I will say that the idea of bioships can follow to ways: An asteroid, nature its efficient, not intelligent but energy efficient and we`re talking about constructing a capital ship with organic materials, what would nature do to create such a monster? The answer is simple, a big experiment, because it would be a true advance to have ships that can autorrepair and grow themselves without much effort. You should start by building tunnels, or better EAT the asteroid to use its energy and materials to construct your ship. And when you are done, the ship should start making important organs, a hearth it code for "energy and material distribution system" which is basic for every ship and at the same time you would need to start taking energy, and for that out monster will have to make biological structures outside, these structures will have to be outside to take the energy so they will have to resist the stellar radiation(or use it as a fount of energy) And here comes the artistic option, vegetalia its the solution to the problem since it can support giant doses of radiation, but not just green vegetalia since we need to take all the light spectrum to our energy collector. The player should have the option to place roots on the asteroid surface which ends in colorful solar energy collectors, almost like flowers or mushrooms or maybe both, but if you are looking for a more brutal aesthetic put lots of and lots of roots which ends un spikes that glows with the bacteria they have inside, For the engines there are options, like chemical chambers that produces gases to use them as giant thrusters, since there is no friction in space you can accelerate forever with this system. There are other ways, like a giant organic solar sail with the appearance of the wing of a fly, on this part I cant see much difference between a tech and a bio ship except for the aesthetics. For sensors its easier, in space you can see everything with thermal vision which is something that enters in our known biological world. There could be a part of the asteroid with a giant orb that acts like an actual sensor, or an orb filled with eyes always watching(its a bit creepy) and of course there could be even more sensors, like radiation sensors to detect how "far" is the ship from the nearest sun and the it will use his giant eye to see if that sun have asteroid or other important resources, to create a sensor in a biological way its relatively easy take something that reacts in the presence of another something, then optimize it to a certain function... and there you go, you only have to think it in a chemical way with all the entropy and elements involved. For weapons, we cant have mass drivers, maybe chemical lasers but a laser has the problem of cooling which can be mortal for a bioship. So I see two options here, pods and hive pods. The pods will be charged with inorganic eaters like bacteria or fungus they will act as hull eaters making damage over time, first they will make the ship inefficient or inaccurate and then they will disabled it for the final step of a wonderful explosion. Hive pods are just like the others but these would act as MIRV or small carriers for other creatures specifically engineered to throw into the enemy defenses. To limit the pod making there should be a resource counter so making a pod should consume the resources of the bioship on this way the player should eat their dead enemies on a very natural and savage way to survive. For defenses... well when the bioships feels danger all external energy structures should contract themselves to the interior before they suffer much damage, and then the ship will function with reserves during all the battle, when the enemies are disabled it can pop up again and start eating them or absorbing all they can. Against physical damage we still have the asteroid, it will have to be penetrated, but once penetrated the space radiation will cause mayhem on the delicate systems of the bioship, of course the bio-ship will have defenses against this like a fast repair of the breach and a posterior reinforcement of the breach. For communications, the bioship can use light pulses to communicate, or even messengers pods, to receive messages from radio its possible to make certain organs that can react with precision to radio signals the problem is the translation of such signals, but as long as you can "install" the communication protocols and a direct understanding of digital information And now, the part that should be specifically story driven. The command center, it should be positioned on the center of the asteroid heavily protected, if we`re talking about a pure alien race of bioships it should be a big condensation and complex organization of something similar to a brain, but if we`re talking about a s designed by humans, the "brain" of the ship can be anywhere and can be peripheral because there are humans controlling it behind the console, for their everyday living the "lounge", "medical center" and everything should be in stasis pods that covers all of this necessities on one big room leaving the rest of the space to the living creature. The second way its the way that we al know, the space whales,,, ok not whales, they would be much more like tortoises or in a more aesthetically way giant hammer sharks, but even in this way it would be a very sophisticated environment of pluricelular organism working together just like in the asteroid. For the last part I would add interesting things for biological ships; evolving, repair and reproduction. 1-Evolve its a Basic thing in every organism, but since we`re talking an eternal living bioship, the ship had to improve and adapt on his way so it makes sense that it can evolve while floating in space or even in combat (but in combat it should be in a very violent and spontaneous way.) and to evolve it should use these mecanics. Or it was designed to improved himself by genehackers, adapting with the human help or by giving hum learning capacities. -Assimilation: Simple, eat enemy ships and the total tonelage of the ship will be converted to evolution points, the bigger the haunt the bigger the bounty. -Environment: Some evolutions just need pressure, and since the ship can repair itself you can say that every damage suffered activates certain mutations. That would mean that if you almost died during a battle and you repair the damage, your bioship will have created stronger defenses working like human bones or scars(which is tissue that becomes more resistant to damage when damaged) making you tougher to kill. -Interaction: A bioship don't need to stay in battle every single second, it might need to act as a freighter or as an exploration ship. So, by lamarckism the more you use it in a certain way the more it will improve to accomplish such way efficiently. Of course, if you stay inactive in a certain activity for too long the bioship will have to "train" itself again(but it will be easier) 2-Repair: I mean, ITS BIOLOGICAL, that word has implicit regeneration on it so a bioship should repair all the damaged taken over time and at the same time reinforce the damaged areas as every biothing would do on his place. For repair, there should be logical drawbacks, like you have to divert all your energy on repairs and if they are big they can disable your bioship for a long time, so you cant defend and all your energy structures will be exposed . But the good news is that at certain point the energy used to repairs can be diverted to other areas and the more your evolve such point will come sooner and sooner. 3-Reproduction, ok so you are a biological entity and, which is your main objective in life? Exactly, make copies of yourself. This could be handled at some point when you evolve enough to make seeds of yourself or build a big womb for children and then you will have a potential newman machine. This can be handled in various ways, for example a Hive of asteroids united by strong strings all adding more power to the original bioship that made them. O Have in mind that reproduction don't always mean that the numbers increase, there could be a very dramatic moment when your little asteroid thinggie/whallie has to die because you`re in danger and eating your spawn its the only way to survive. But of course a fleet of interconnected bioships, means that you can specialize your members like this one is for energy, this one is for attack, this one is a matter and energy storage...
nezumi.hebereke nezumi.hebereke's picture
My big issue here is how one
My big issue here is how one derives energy from 'eating' the asteroid. Most asteroids are made up of iron or other elements which don't provide a lot of energy. Energy would have to come from solar power (possibly using reflectors to concentrate it) or chemical energy brought in from elsewhere. Have you read the Swarm by Bruce Sterling? Seems like it would be right up your alley.
templariomaster templariomaster's picture
nezumi.hebereke wrote:My big
nezumi.hebereke wrote:
My big issue here is how one derives energy from 'eating' the asteroid. Most asteroids are made up of iron or other elements which don't provide a lot of energy. Energy would have to come from solar power (possibly using reflectors to concentrate it) or chemical energy brought in from elsewhere. Have you read the Swarm by Bruce Sterling? Seems like it would be right up your alley.
An asteroid can have carbon, but most of the inorganic material can be converted into ions, such ions with the right biochemical route can be converted into energy of high grade.
bibliophile20 bibliophile20's picture
templariomaster wrote:An
templariomaster wrote:
An asteroid can have carbon, but most of the inorganic material can be converted into ions, such ions with the right biochemical route can be converted into energy of high grade.
Converted by what means, though? The energy to do that conversion has to come from somewhere, and there's a finite and limited amount of chemical energy in even the most carbon-rich asteroid or comet, especially when compared with the metabolic needs of a biological entity capable of consuming said asteroid or comet.

"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote." -Benjamin Franklin

templariomaster templariomaster's picture
bibliophile20 wrote
bibliophile20 wrote:
templariomaster wrote:
An asteroid can have carbon, but most of the inorganic material can be converted into ions, such ions with the right biochemical route can be converted into energy of high grade.
Converted by what means, though? The energy to do that conversion has to come from somewhere, and there's a finite and limited amount of chemical energy in even the most carbon-rich asteroid or comet, especially when compared with the metabolic needs of a biological entity capable of consuming said asteroid or comet.
In certain Sci-fi proposed that to end the problem of big ships with big fuel deposits. They used a hydrogen collector, so you can collect energy from space. If the first is posible, then you can extract energy from radiation. So for now we have solar winds and free hydrogen, that could start the reaction. Then, you can accumulate that energy with chemical bonds on a starting carbon deposit. So now, we have, sol, free hydrogen and first access materials from the asteroid, from the you can start extracting ions like Fe, that has a bigger energetic potential. And from there the machine could go on and on... We're talking about space optimized lifeforms. Their repair and energy collection mechanisms should be some of the most developed system.
Armoured Armoured's picture
Bioships hate hard-scifi...
While I'm a fan of the bioship concept, and think they can be pretty cool, they have plenty of issues in real life that challenge their use. The main ones are energy, as bibliophile20 noted, and the second is resources. Energy does exist in atoms and molecules, it is true. Atoms alone are not usable by organic constructs though; either you need a fission or fusion reactor, which are hard to make out of meat. Fusion requires massive energy to initiate and sustain, and iron actually gives you nothing in return. This is due to its binding energy of its nuclei; iron is more stable than any other element (this is why it is so common, as stars fuse elements during their lifespan until they reach iron. Supernovae are required to produce any elements heavier than that.). Fission is only possible if you find an asteroid with a lot of radioactive elements, and then you have the problem that organic cells really don't do well in a high-rad environment. Its possible that high-carbon asteroids may have a lot of their carbon locked up in hydrocarbon molecules, though. These are very high-energy and an organism could very well use them as an energy source, though you would be limited by the amount of hydrocarbons per asteroid you find. I feel I should also mention that free hydrogen from the solar wind is pretty thin, and still useless unless you are going to use it in a fusion reactor. Your electromagnetic scoops would have to be thousands of square kilometers in area.. and again, organic structures are not great at producing powerful magnetic fields. Despite this you could still grow bioships and stations. A writer who used the ideas extensively is Peter F. Hamilton in his Night's Dawn trilogy, to the point where such designs are now commonly called Hamilton cylinders. A tubular habitat, growing from one end which eats asteroids, and spinning to allow internal simulated gravity. However they would require vast amounts of energy to survive, and Hamilton suggests placing them in orbit around gas giants, to harvest energy by rotating conductive cables though their powerful magnetospheres. Without these you would need gargantuan solar collectors to get the power required to keep your living ship alive. The setting already has a Hamilton cylinder habitat in fact- Meathab! Though its inhabited by Scum and weird cultists (though is it really so weird to worship a two kilometer long slab of bacon?) mostly, and certainly isn't going anywhere. Jupiter would be a better place to grow them, with its stronger magnetic field and greater solar exposure, but the Jovians are likely to object strenuously if you start growing one in their backyard. Through a Pandora gate though, well, you could do anything out there.
nezumi.hebereke nezumi.hebereke's picture
I like Dyson's idea; you
I like Dyson's idea; you 'grow' highly reflective petals which work like directed concave mirrors. You aim that as a 'pistil' which contains a fluid. The directed heat heats the fluid. That imbalance can be used to generate energy for biological purposes. This works at distances where even conventional solar cells are not effective. It can also be used like a solar sail to help guide the asteroid.
Jaberwo Jaberwo's picture
I am afraid your propulsion
I am afraid your propulsion system is not up to the task. :( Whether you meant to use a compressed gas thruster (terrible at everything a rocket engine can be terrible at I would say) or a chemical rocket (still absolutely too weak in terms of Isp and other things) you won't get anywhere. A massive rock needs an incredible drive system with lots and lots of propellant, prohibitive amounts if you were to use chemical fuel/propellant. It would still be terribly slow in any case. Even if you use high energy nuclear/fusion/antimatter drives with the best available propellant (hydrogen) your ship is made mostly out of propellant. And your model based on "conventional" biological things will have terrible difficulty to get any of this. Certainly you won't find enough hydrogen on your rock, or oxidizer and hydrocarbons for chemical propellant (because you just need so much). If you want to create an artificial life form in the form of a ship don't limit yourself to this organics vs. synthetics thing (like mass effect). There is no such thing, just machines made of different stuff. They all have to follow the same rules, and some are simply better than others. ;) Try atomic rockets, it's the page for designing rockets :D http://www.projectrho.com/public_html/rocket/ (I don't want to rain on your parade though, if it works for you try it. Just presenting my "as scientifically accurate as possible" EP world view here, because I don't like using space magic.)