Welcome! These forums will be deactivated by the end of this year. The conversation continues in a new morph over on Discord! Please join us there for a more active conversation and the occasional opportunity to ask developers questions directly! Go to the PS+ Discord Server.

The trouble with pods

21 posts / 0 new
Last post
Steel Accord Steel Accord's picture
The trouble with pods
It's repeatedly stated in the books that pods are low quality morphs. I'm somewhat confused as to why though. I mean, if they have a combination of synth and organic parts, shouldn't that make them the best of both worlds?
Your passion is power. Focus it. Your body is a tool. Hone it. Transhummanity is a pantheon. Exalt it!
ShadowDragon8685 ShadowDragon8685's picture
Steel Accord wrote:It's
Steel Accord wrote:
It's repeatedly stated in the books that pods are low quality morphs. I'm somewhat confused as to why though. I mean, if they have a combination of synth and organic parts, shouldn't that make them the best of both worlds?
Well, yes, but it would also give them the [i]worst[/i] of both worlds, too. The need to plug in for a periodic recharge [i]and[/i] the need to eat, for instance. The vulnerability to brainhacking [i]and[/i] to the kind of weapons a full synth would laugh of. I think a lot of it is due to their poor reputation socially, though, which personally, I don't get. Anybody with two neurons to fire together or the processing power to simulate them knows damn well that every body that could hold a transhuman mind was repurposed to do just that in the wake of the fall. So the body might once have been a dumb AI doing sex work, but now it's being occupied by a subatomic physicist doing Science. But then, folks aren't always rational. About anything, practically. Anyway, there were implications that pods tended to wear out their organic bits fairly fast and need to have them replaced, but I haven't seen that modeled in the rules anyway. Also, you missed an opportunity for added alliterative appeal by failing to title this thread "The Problem with Pods".
Skype and AIM names: Exactly the same as my forum name. [url=http://tinyurl.com/mfcapss]My EP Character Questionnaire[/url] [url=http://tinyurl.com/lbpsb93]Thread for my Questionnaire[/url] [url=http://tinyurl.com/obu5adp]The Five Orange Pips[/url]
ORCACommander ORCACommander's picture
I got the impression that
I got the impression that also their functioning brain power was highly limited and not quite capable of holding a full transhuman. I think who ever is in a pod might be at best a gamma grade ego
Urthdigger Urthdigger's picture
My pod's aptitude cap of 25
My pod's aptitude cap of 25 across the board says they don't limit brainpower. From what I recall from the books, they have a social stigma due to being once used by AGIs imitating people, but nowadays any body works for that, so it should properly only be implemented around folks both anti-AGI and ignorant. Or folks who also dislike synths. While it is true that pods require more maintenance, as mentioned above this is just an RP point for the most part. Anyway, I see pods as not so much low quality as economical. My own scurrier is pretty badass, but is grown cheaper and more suitable for transhuman inauguration than simple raising a sciurid off Haplopelma and sticking a cyberbrain into it.
Rallan Rallan's picture
It can be the best of both
It can be the best of both worlds if you're sporting a purpose-built body that was designed with performance in mind. A Shaper, for example, is a pretty swanky bod that's custom built for espionage, and if you're sporting a Whiplash then you aren't being cheap, you're making a bold (some would say crass) statement. The problem (as far as a lot of small minded NPCs are concerned) is that most Pods [i]aren't[/i] purpose-built bodies that were designed with performance in mind. They're cheap no-frills units that were designed for economy, using off-the-shelf robotics that can be easily mass produced without state of the art fabbers or medical facilities, combined with the bare minimum of pseudoorganic components to make them feel more natural to live in than a Synth morph. The Worker Pod is probably the most common Pod morph in the solar system, not because it's awesome but because there are millions and millions of former infugees in the Inner System who couldn't afford better (or weren't given better under the terms of their indenture). Plus another part of it is just plain old prejudice. The vast bulk of transhumanity isn't really transhuman by choice, and up until a decade ago they were living a comfortably middle class and very human existence on Earth. They never asked to leave everything behind and join an interplanetary culture whose inhabitants get new bodies the way folks back home used to get new cars, and they see their time as Infomorphs as a hardship they had to suffer durng a refuge crisis, not as an opportunity to redefine themselves or expand their boundaries. So when they finally save up enough to get a physical body they want something [i]normal[/i], even if its a lot fiddlier to make and it requres a lot of expensive life support and it can't survive extreme conditions. And since most societies (and especially most Hypercorp-ran societies) encourage normality as a way of maintaining stability, a Biomorph is seen as something to aspire to while a Pod Morph is seen as something to settle for until you can afford the real thing. And I just realised that the expense of maintaining Biomorphs is probably part of what gives them status. If you're human(ish) then you need a lot of food and water and oxygen. And you need access to protective gear that a lot of Pods and Case designs might not need for dangerous work. And you need room. You need room to sleep, room to work, room to socialise, and room to exercise, and all of it needs to be kept above freezing point (or below boiling point, which can be an even bigger hassle in some places), thoroughly radiation-shielded, and kept pressurised with an atmospheric mix that humans can breathe comfortably. And you need a place in the panic room for if there's ever a life support failure, and some sort of means of escape that can keep you alive if the whole settlement is evacuated. So if you're sleeved in a Biomorph, even if it's just something plain like a Splicer, you're basically saying that you can afford to pay for all the ongoing expenses of keeping eighty kilos of fragile warm-blooded human alive in space.
Urthdigger Urthdigger's picture
Pods have all the same needs
Pods have all the same needs and urges a biomorph does though so that's a moot point.
uwtartarus uwtartarus's picture
Aren't there penalties for
Aren't there penalties for sleeving into pods? Representing their sort of unnatural feeling to the transhuman mind. Most are stigmatized for being a poor, economic model, rather than swanky Olympian and Exalt bodies that the elite sleeve into. It is the whole Meritocracy model's dark side: "if we all get what we have earned and deserved, and you have crap, you must be worth crap." Sleeving into a Pod is less stressful than a Synth, but it is a poor person's choice, and the inner system is rife with prejudice.
Exhuman, and Humanitarian.
Chernoborg Chernoborg's picture
Near as I can tell, the
Near as I can tell, the primary reason pods are cheap is that their brains aren't fully developed - something to do with neural tissues not responding to accelerated growth procedures. Otherwise they're functionally a biomorph with all the frailties inherent to the type with some social stigma and a vulnerability to brainhacking thrown in for flavour! There's not much in the way of material to make a pod different or desirable. That's really too bad as there's room for a lot of fun stuff with pods. Here's a few ideas ! First , terminology..."pods" is a term applied to these morphs by outsiders, I think "synthorg" is a good technical name for the type. "Chimera" is for the typical anthropoid pods built out of cloned organs while "animus" could cover pods like the novacrab or scurrier where the original biological form couldn't support an ego .Since pods are combined biological and cybernetic systems they could take any enhancement option without penalty (or at a lower cost if you're feeling generous.) essentially being plug and play for any customization. Here are some pod specific traits or augmentations : Generic Genome- since many pods are assembled from ready to use "type O " organs their genetics are made to be as simple as possible, reducing the difficulty of genehacking for the pod. Mosaic - the pod is clearly built of mismatched components and cannot hide its nature for very long. Backup Organs - popular with combat pods this mod places several extra copies of critical organs in different locations throughout the morph, those organs that cannot be relocated(such as lungs) are subdivided into discreet sections to better manage trauma. You'd think I'd start a thread in Homebrew!
Current Status: Highly Distracted building Gatecrashing systems in Universe Sandbox!
Aldrich Aldrich's picture
Healing Vats
In my games the anti-pod stigma is purely a function of cost vs. the desire to have a squishy meat body. Pods are much easier to produce and can be produced much faster than any biomorph, therefore they are much less expensive. The only people who use pods are the ones who can't afford a real biomorph (or so the marketing department would tell you). This follows from a houserule in which I've nerfed healing vats extensively. Under the core rules, a healing vat can reconstruct you from just your head in what, 2 days? If they can do that, there is really no reason bio-morphs would be rare or valuable, and no need the concept of pods (as discrete from say, a biomorph with just a cyberbrain). By nerfing healing vats I've emphasized the "designer automobile" approach: biomorphs are expensive to design (2-3 years of design work), and take ~2 years to force grow to maturity (if they're not born naturally). Conversely, pods are heavily cybernetic and can be assembled from "off the shelf" organs that are grown individually. This also means that getting a custom-made pod is much easier than a custom-made biomorph. Semi-related, there have been good discussions about economics of the (magic) healing vats in other threads.
Jaberwo Jaberwo's picture
We play a pre fall campaing
We play a pre fall campaing at the moment and I am really trying to establish that in this society pods have been marked as such and treated as the slaves they were programmed and constructed to be for decades. This meme is deeply ingrained into the collective mind, because you can treat pods any way you want at that time as long as you know what they are. Hiding the nature of a pod is very rude, because it is basically a trick you play on anyone else to mistake them for a human. which would be quite embarassing. I could imagine that their facial expression and body language is not as good as in biomorphs. The same can of course be applied to synths. As a household item they are naturally less durable than the medical product biomorph.
Urthdigger Urthdigger's picture
First off, pods don't have
First off, pods don't have underdeveloped brains. Or, rather, every pod gets a cyberbrain to replace it with as part of the pod creation process. This is also where the "hacking vulnerability" comes in, though that's easily circumvented with good opsec scores or just simply turning off your mesh inserts (Ectos are cheap and retro, embrace them!) and making sure nobody plugs an ethernet cable into your skull. In exchange, we get an automatic mnemonic memory (If the DM tells you that you can't recall something, they are LYING!), and resistance to psi attacks. It should be noted that synthmorphs also have cyberbrains and the associated drawbacks.
Chernoborg Chernoborg's picture
Oh , I was talking about
Oh , I was talking about their biological brain. Which is mentioned to be "extremely undeveloped" on Pg. 142 of the main book. That wasn't saying pods are mentally deficient. And regarding the healing vats and nerfing (love that term!) .Maybe throw them an option to have a morph built in two days but it'll be a something like a splicer body with their head (and its relevant bonuses/augmentations) attached. Gotta justify having those extra organs laying around!
Current Status: Highly Distracted building Gatecrashing systems in Universe Sandbox!
ORCACommander ORCACommander's picture
pretty sure the rule book
pretty sure the rule book said making a biomorph took months but regeneration was a different ruleset. Meat is easy to fabricate. neural pathways not so much
Aldrich Aldrich's picture
ORCACommander wrote:pretty
ORCACommander wrote:
pretty sure the rule book said making a biomorph took months but regeneration was a different ruleset. Meat is easy to fabricate. neural pathways not so much
Sure, those are the core rules - but they make literally no sense. According to the same rules an ego-bridge wet-prints and rewires the entire brain every time someone sleeves into a biomorph. So not only can you fabricate the brain and neural structure, it's done in less than an hour, as the most common means of long distance travel!
ThatWhichNeverWas ThatWhichNeverWas's picture
Yes and no.
I imagine that the ego-bridge doesn't rewire the whole brain, just those sections concerning memory and personality. Otherwise you wouldn't be able to sleeve into, say, and Octomorph because the neuronal connections to the tentacles wouldn't be have anywhere to wire up to in the brain. Similarly, any enhancements your initial morph gave to Cog/Int due to it's enhanced neural structure would come with you when you resleeve.
In the past we've had to compensate for weaknesses, finding quick solutions that only benefit a few. But what if we never need to feel weak or morally conflicted again?
Xagroth Xagroth's picture
Aldrich wrote:According to
Aldrich wrote:
According to the same rules an ego-bridge wet-prints and rewires the entire brain every time someone sleeves into a biomorph. So not only can you fabricate the brain and neural structure, it's done in less than an hour, as the most common means of long distance travel!
It does not rewire the entire brain, it "creates" neuronal bridges (which are formed when a neuron "sends a tentacle" to a neighbouring neuron). The ego bridge injects and controls nanomachines that, in the end, do little more than pushing and pulling to create the "map", so it's not adding nor removing cells, but moving them. I believe the truly funny problem is not with pods per se, but with several options here and there that allow things like organic brains installed into synth bodies, or cyberbrains in biomorphs. Seeins as how the body carries the stigma, I'd say its just bigotry encouraged by the powers that be to promote a lifelstyle as close to the one we have today as possible, because it is easier to control people sleeved in flats than super-doped synths able to replace a limb in minutes with just a fabber, electricty, and some blueprints. Not to mention the synthmorph requires much less resources than a biomorph, thus discouraging consumism. And yeah, the weirdest thing about a pod is they can just replace limbs or damaged parts on the fly, and that is quite jarring to the average joe.
LatwPIAT LatwPIAT's picture
On pods:"Pods (from “pod
On pods: [i]"Pods (from “pod people”) are vat-grown, biological bodies with extremely undeveloped brains that are augmented with an implanted computer and cybernetics system. [...] Because pods underwent accelerated growth in their creation, and were mostly grown as separate parts and then assembled, [b]their biological design includes some shortcuts and limitations, offset with implants and regular maintenance.[/b]"[/i] This would seem to imply that part of the reason pods are cheap are because they're more expensive to maintain, and furthermore, when we look at their capabilities holistically, cyberbrains in EP tend to not be as advanced as biological brains in terms of capabilities. Part of the price you pay when making pods is forgoing the possibility for advanced neural architectures, since you're running large parts of the brain - especially the decision-making parts - on cyberbrain hardware and architecture. You could probably make a pod grown from Menton genes while using the cyberbrain parts of a Savant in order to create a pod with a powerful neural architecture, but then you're stuck with the task of integrating an underdeveloped Menton brain with the hardware solutions used in the Savant. That gives you a more technologically advanced solution to problem that already has two simple solutions. This probably offsets the cost benefits that pods have in general. On resleeving: [i]"Resleeving takes about an hour in a properly equipped clinic. In essence, the process works like uploading in reverse. The new sleeve is hooked up to an ego bridge which infiltrates the brain with nanobots that physically restructure the brain’s neural structure and connections according to the map provided by the backup.[/i] [i]Sleeving takes six times as long as uploading because the nanobot swarm working as a wet printer in the template brain needs to duplicate the entire physical structure of the ego’s neural network. For resleeving, a “wet” ego bridge is used, meaning that the sleeve and ego bridge are submerged in a vat filled with nanogel. [b]The resleeving process for pods takes only half an hour, as pods brains are half biological and half cyberbrain.[/b]"[/i] (Fun fact - this seems to imply that sleeving-time is proportional to brain volume...) The relevant parts on uploading: [i]"When activated, the ego bridge’s sensor array twists open like a morning glory blossom, revealing an enclosure with a neck rest that automatically adjusts itself to morphs with oddly-sized or -shaped heads. The neck rest deploys millions of specialized nanobots into the brain and central nervous system. The petals are full of sensors that image the brain using a combination of MRI, sonogram, and positional information broadcast by the nanobot swarm in the morph’s brain.[/i] [i][...] In the case of pods, the ego bridge scans the biological brain bits and also accesses the cyberbrain to copy the parts of the ego residing there.[/i]" This does say that resleeving process involves restructuring the entire brain of the morph to match the Ego's old neural architecture, but I'll note that it says nothing about creating the brain cells from scratch; it probably just does work with what's already there. Hence, you can't transfer the benefits of a Menton to a Flat, because the Flat doesn't have the fancy kind of brain cells, synapse cells and chemical glands that the Menton has to augment its intelligence. (Personally though, I'm far more a fan of the non-canonical "interpretation" that resleeving is less invasive, and rather than doing a grand restructuring of the brain, it instead translates the Ego's cognome map structure to the morph's brain's cognome map like a compiler translating higher-level code to run on a specific CPU architecture. This allows resleeving to take advantage of specific neural structures, as well as avoiding the problems that come with having magical nanomachines that can rewire 300 [i]billion[/i] synapses per second...)
@-rep +2 C-rep +1
Xagroth Xagroth's picture
LatwPIAT wrote:(Fun fact -
LatwPIAT wrote:
(Fun fact - this seems to imply that sleeving-time is proportional to brain volume...)
Yeah, the bigger the volume, the higher the number of cells. Incidentally, most of those are "memory" connections, implying that a pod brain with half cybernetic parts would store data like a pure cyberbrain. Now I don't remember right now if Asyncs could use their powers while sleeved in a Pod, but if they can that would give an interesting detail about the sleights... On an little off topic, I remember an old child's cartoon mentioning that placing all the neurons of a regular 20th century brain in a straight line would net a length similar to the distance between the Earth and the Moon...
Urthdigger Urthdigger's picture
Asyncs have trouble
Asyncs have trouble performing while in a pod. Conversely, pods resist sleights used on them.
Leng Plateau Leng Plateau's picture
Cyberbrains
Async and cyberbrains don't mix. On the other hand, biological brains can't be hacked.
At least with Lovecraft, nobody pretends the gods are nice. And wherever you end up, there is guaranteed to be tentacles.
Urthdigger Urthdigger's picture
It should be noted that
It should be noted that synthmorphs are fully immune to sleights. One could view it as a sliding scale of sleights versus hacking, though I don't believe pods are harder to hack than synths... but then, there's a lot a player can do to avoid hacking as well. Turn off meshinserts and you're basically safe unless someone jacks a cord into your skull, and even then you have you, your muse, and infosec.