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Extropian Fabbers

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Erulastant Erulastant's picture
I will try to keep further
I will try to keep further posts strictly on the topic of DRM. That said, it's hard to discuss whether or not ancap Extropians would have DRM without discussing Extropian ancap. I'm inclined to believe there would not be DRM on privately owned fabbers. Presumably the fabber was purchased from somebody. And DRM-free fabbers are a) cheaper (less coding and updating of code required since it won't need to check for DRM violations) and b) more desirable (duh) than DRM'd ones. And all someone has to do to get into the fabber business is find a nearby an-col hab willing to hand out (Or exchange for) the occasional cornucopia machine as a thorn for the paw of the big bad fabber corporations trying to get a monopoly in Extropia.
You, too, were made by humans. The methods used were just cruder, imprecise. I guess that explains a lot.
Cerebrate Cerebrate's picture
For pretty much the same
For pretty much the same reason, if someone were to start Regulated Fabbers, Inc., in Extropia on Monday, with serious not-the-gentle-by-agreement-kind-I-was-talking-about DRM code embedded, I'm pretty sure some other entrepreneur will start Fabbers Without Borders, Inc., there on Tuesday that runs all the same recipes but ignores the DRM code and take their market share away, as it's an obviously preferable product. Hard to miss an opportunity like that unless RF have the law on their side, which they wouldn't in this scenario. Of course, FWB fabbers are nobbled to be unable to make more fabbers. It's all right to crush other people's business models, just not your own. :) -c
Erulastant Erulastant's picture
Except that Fabbers Without
Except that Fabbers Without Borders would have to be nonprofit. Because Regulated Fabbers, Inc is literally giving away fabbers. The product they're selling is regulation. The public fabbers are all produced at a loss. (And the private fabbers that they sell are of course DRM free) Oh, of course nobody on Extropia is ever going to sell a fabber that can make more fabbers. That would just be stupid. All fabber-making-fabbers have to either be made using cracked DRM or be imported from nearby an-cols. (Or of course made for personal use by someone with an imported or cracked fabber)
You, too, were made by humans. The methods used were just cruder, imprecise. I guess that explains a lot.
Cerebrate Cerebrate's picture
Ah, not so. The FR business
Ah, not so. The FR business model, then, is basically giving away DRMed fabbers and collecting from the guys who produce DRMed recipes? All FWB need to do in their advertising is point out that you'll spend a lot less buying one FWB fabber than you can expect to spend on all the stuff you want to churn out via your local public FR fabber, and they've got the market. (As long as they can undercut the price FR is charging for private DRM-free fabbers, but since that's presumably a high price so as not to bite into their public DRMed fabber business too much and make the DRM companies stop paying them, there's almost certainly room.) ...of course, in my version of Extropia, I'm pretty sure fabbers are practically, if not actually, given away with many other products. "Here's a free fabber and a free design library as a bonus for joining our premium customer program! (Now buy our state-of-the-art just-off-the-presses fashion recipes!)"
templariomaster templariomaster's picture
If something is hard to make
If something is hard to make from a fabber, like a simple gun or some explosives, there would be different fabbers trying to offer the same services but with different qualities. For instance, you can use this fabber during 30 minutes freely, so fabbers are limited by time(or the time limiit is defined under your reputation) everybody would agree to use such fabbers because they offer the basic services such as simple electronics or decoration and if you want something more complex you simply pay a fee. Or there would be fabbers which directly charges you on how much resources did you use, but they can give you a discount if you give to them the resources directly(like a block of salt or iron). Or, the fabber has free items which change day to day premium items and ubersuperpremium items for total access... have in mind that in an ancap society. And of course there would be charity, with fabbers destined in poor areas with big logos(so everybody knows which enterprise is giving a favor here) and completly free access, with fast making process by default(so they can be massively used and fast and enought imprecise to it to basic products). When you get to extropia or other ancaps societies(there are three in the game), think big and creatively entrepeneurs are highly rewarded in free market societies, and there would be as much busisines models as minds are trying to find a new way to win money.
templariomaster templariomaster's picture
If something is hard to make
If something is hard to make from a fabber, like a simple gun or some explosives, there would be different fabbers trying to offer the same services but with different qualities. For instance, you can use this fabber during 30 minutes freely, so fabbers are limited by time(or the time limiit is defined under your reputation) everybody would agree to use such fabbers because they offer the basic services such as simple electronics or decoration and if you want something more complex you simply pay a fee. Or there would be fabbers which directly charges you on how much resources did you use, but they can give you a discount if you give to them the resources directly(like a block of salt or iron). Or, the fabber has free items which change day to day premium items and ubersuperpremium items for total access... have in mind that in an ancap society. And of course there would be charity, with fabbers destined in poor areas with big logos(so everybody knows which enterprise is giving a favor here) and completly free access, with fast making process by default(so they can be massively used and fast and enought imprecise to it to basic products). When you get to extropia or other ancaps societies(there are three in the game), think big and creatively entrepeneurs are highly rewarded in free market societies, and there would be as much busisines models as minds are trying to find a new way to win money.
Hoarseman Hoarseman's picture
Optionally...
Just publish a list of "deadbeats", use whatever term is acceptable, for people who don't contribute back for blueprint use. This would effect Rep within Extropia and while they wouldn't be denied service people could very easily prioritize services towards those that are known to contribute back to them. Fabbers must necessarily prioritize based on a number of factors (material, time, emergency conditions, etc). If the owner of the blueprint has an individual listed as a low priority for their blueprint use that is simply a factor used to determine when that person can fab the blueprint. If you can get widespread buy-in for prioritization then those fabbers that don't will be overwhelmed by those that don't want to contribute. They will still be able to use it, they will simply have to wait longer or go to a fabber that isn't part of the priority system (likely also used by those that don't want to contribute, and so oversubscribed). This would help manage the "free ride" situation while reducing chances of ethically negative outcomes like people starving in the street etc. An-cap works better, I think, when the Rep system is added as that helps avoid some of the excesses associated with it. Also, people who did contribute, at different levels, could be given a higher priority for blue print use and simply use that as another fabber priority use. So you end up with a carrot and stick model to encourage, but not require, contributions for a persons work making a blueprint.
Cerebrate Cerebrate's picture
Firm agreement
Hoarseman wrote:
This would help manage the "free ride" situation while reducing chances of ethically negative outcomes like people starving in the street etc. An-cap works better, I think, when the Rep system is added as that helps avoid some of the excesses associated with it.
I, for one, am a great believer in the potential of reputation systems as part of an ancap economy. As long as people interact with each other at all, there's always going to be some information asymmetry risk, and rep networks strike me as a great way to offset/hedge those risks.
nick012000 nick012000's picture
Okay, speaking as someone who
Okay, speaking as someone who's political tendencies IRL lean towards AnCap, I'd say that the problem probably never comes up, because they never put DRM on their products to begin with. Why? Because DRM is a scheme associated with Copyright, and Copyright is a government-enforced monopoly (and if there's one thing AnCaps hate, it's government interference). Trying schemes to maintain your failing monopoly is corrupt and self-defeating, and those that rely on them are inevitably doomed to failure, as treating your customers like criminals drives away legitimate customers and rewards those who break your DRM.

+1 r-Rep , +1 @-rep

savanah savanah's picture
I think it would work as
I think it would work as Winrar, you can download and use the blueprints at will, but everytime you use them a small pop up would appear asking you to pay for the product, you can easily dismiss it and use it anyway or you can pay it and don't be bothered by it anymore.
ShadowDragon8685 ShadowDragon8685's picture
savanah wrote:I think it
savanah wrote:
I think it would work as Winrar, you can download and use the blueprints at will, but everytime you use them a small pop up would attempt to appear asking you to pay for the product, but your muse automatically blocked it and it never came to your conscious attention because you're (a) an anarchist and believe information should be completely free, and (b) an anarchist and thus don't have any money.
Fixed that for you.
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