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First time. Could use some feedback!

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Mithror Mithror's picture
First time. Could use some feedback!
[b]*** Warning. Contains spoilers for the scenario in the Quickstarter for Eclipse Phase. ***[/b] Hello everybody! I've been reading this forum for quite some time and having just recently finished our first mission for Eclipse Phase, I had some questions/remarks I'd like to post here, if you don't mind. Our group is fairly new to tabletop RPG. We come from a background of boardgame players, but my interest in RPGs and especially the Eclipse Phase universe drove me to try it out! I love what you guys are doing so much, I bought all the books and I think they tell an interesting universe. The group seemed really interested in trying Eclipse Phase out as well, so I started reading and preparing and I decided to give the quickstarter mission "Mind The WMD" a try. The first session went really well and everyone liked it. They ended up blowing the Anora Arabella to pieces, with one of them sacrificing himself to do so. The second part though, specifically the Ebb 6 part, was a different matter. The thing is, I like the combat system, but some people in the group did not like the downtime. I've read that people call the combat in Eclipse Phase relatively quick, especially compared to other systems, but coming from a boardgaming background where downtime is often a huge no-no, we felt that combat in Eclipse Phase had a little bit too much downtime. We were 5 PCs (I was the GM fyi) and there are 5 NPCs in the final battle. That meant that every person had to wait at least 9 turns before they could act again (ignoring the speed 2+). Of course, being first time players furthers slow this down and definitely creates a bias towards believing it is slow, but even then I don't really see how I can alleviate the feeling of downtime (i.e. nothing to do), so I decided to come to the experienced: you guys! How do you guys handle combat? Do you think there is a lot of downtime and if so, can something be done about it? Or is it inherent to the system? My group seems to favor more story oriented content, so I assume as a GM I should just avoid combat as much as possible (though my GF likes it. She likes to blow stuff up!). I don't plan on given up just yet, like I said, it could also be beginner issues and once people get more familiar with it, they might like it more. But remember, they're used to throwing your own and enemy dice into a dice tower and whoever has the most dice coming out wins (Wallenstein), so fairly quick combat. Here's what we did for combat: For every PC and NPC [indent]Move to X and do Y.[/indent][indent]Roll the dice.[/indent][indent](Add some fluff to the outcome).[/indent] Which actually brings me to another question: how do you handle the tactical aspect of it? Do you use the maps that are given or created. Do you actually have them divided in the squares (or hexes) to check movement and tactical positions? Or do you just do everything more in a free flow manner? Like no maps or anything, just the GM's description and the players asking: Can I reach him this turn? Or how long does it take me to get into firing range? Is there cover? And so on... Given my group, I would assume the latter favors them a bit more, though it gets complicated for the GM to track everything. Other than that, we really like it though! I even like the combat a lot personally. And I'm not that bothered by the downtime, but I'm not the one playing, so it's not my decision what to like and not like. I already enjoy knowing what (evil?) things lurk the players :)
ORCACommander ORCACommander's picture
I find downtime grows more
I find downtime grows more exceptionally with the number of players involved. In my opinion you are curtiling the maximum amount of PC's you should have in an rpg group. As for optimization, most speed up will happen in time. the speed variables is not like a standard d20 game like dnd. it is giving you an extra turn under (possible) different initiative order. your more impatient players you can steer toward high speed character. A little trick i have done myself as a player is roll a bit ahead for certain actions. Such as complex maneuvering checks or attack rolls on top of arcane magic failure. this can give them something to do and can increase speed by them just telling you the results when it comes around to them but you will need to be able to trust your players not to fudge things the second is hopefully your friends will be quick to realize that unlike a board game rpg's are not competitive in the normal sense. its player vs dm not pvp and thus they can relax a bit more in how they approach things.
Mithror Mithror's picture
Thanks for your insights :)
I indeed will try to roll some more things in advance so I can cut time on NPC behavior. I also like the suggestion to steer them to higher speed characters. That might indeed alleviate some of the downtime they are sensing. And yeah, 5 PCs might a bit much maybe. Perhaps this could be offset by having encounters with fewer enemies but stronger ones instead. Or craftier ones. Perhaps I can add another small question to the thread: I noticed that almost all the Kinetic Weapons have firing modes from SA,BF,FA, but not SS. Does that mean they can't fire a single shot (i.e. just use one ammo)? I suppose you can choose to only fire on shot in SA mode, but then that'd just be SS of course, so I was a bit confused as to why SS was omitted from the fire modes.
ORCACommander ORCACommander's picture
Single-shot is something that
Single-shot is something that even today we are not seeing very often anymore. SS is really only limited to certain things like zip guns or bolt action rifles. essentially if you can count to three by the time the weapon is capable of being fired again you have a SS weapon. encounter balance is one of the hardest things to do as a dm. no matter what you will have to make the npc's a bit beefier to deal with the extra speed as speed is a huge balance factor in this game.
Mithror Mithror's picture
I see.
I'm no weapons expert, but that makes sense! Another question, if you'll allow me: What is the purpose of knockdown in Eclipse Phase. The rulebook says you can knock someone down when you call for it and have an MoS of 30+ or someone can be knocked down when they fail a SOMx3 test when receiving 2+ wounds. It also mentions that it takes a quick action to get back up, but what are the effects of a knockdown? Is there something the knocked down person can't do? Like defend? It seems like knockdown can (and do) happen a lot, especially with the smaller grunts, so I'm curious what it accomplishes. Again, thanks a lot for the insights!
ORCACommander ORCACommander's picture
might be a bit of a legacy
might be a bit of a legacy carry over from other systems because in dnd 3.5/pathfinder it would make you use your flat footed ac which makes you ridiculously easier to hit. the knock down reduces movement options in a gravity environment. and under the right circumstances can prompt the ability for a Coup de Grace essentially allowing a person to perform an execution
Undocking Undocking's picture
Whatever system I use, we
Whatever system I use, we never play with tokens or minis on graphs. The GM generally has a map or blueprint of the area and either shows us (if we find it in game) or relays the dimensions. Your players, all from boardgames, should know to take their time between turns to plan their actions. Since there are more actions in EP than 'move and shoot' it adds a lot to contimplate your turn. Speed, again, is gained with experience. Knowing what to roll when and the modifers all come with time. My first game of Twilight Imperium and Terra Mystica took ages, but now the core group has it down and they take nearly half the original time. Generally in my groups, rpg turns in combat for games we know are quick affairs. If you fire semi-automatic, you can always elect to shoot once. And knocking someone down means they are no longer standing up. One, they are prone and harder to shoot at from a range. Two, anybody beside them has an easier time stabbing, shooting or leaping on them. Something to think about: not having to fight in Eclipse Phase means you have done everything right.