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Double-earth

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Arenamontanus Arenamontanus's picture
Double-earth
Mainly developed due to a discussion on a mailing list and reading Stross' "Neptune's Brood", but also pretty useful as an exoplanet setting: http://www.aleph.se/andart/archives/2013/11/greetings_from_doubleearth.html Basically Dry and Wet double-earth are two ocean worlds, one with high gravity and one with less gravity and a thick high pressure ice crust. Note the variation acid-Dry with sulfuric acid oceans - comfy! In EP, an issue might be gate locations: if the gates are on the solid surface they will be in high pressure oceans. Of course, as a GM one might wimp out and place it on the surface (either magically hanging there, or on top of a floating raft of vegetation).
Extropian
Holy Holy's picture
Salninity
I really liked your text. It was a pleasure to read. What I was thinking about: You speculate that the salinity on both worlds would be lower than in earths oceans. In the textbook Fundamentals of Geology (German: Grundlagen der Geologie, p. 108-110, Bahlburg H, Breitkreuz C, Springer, 2008 - 3. Edition) the authors state that the salt content of earths oceans remained rather constant during geological time spans. This is surprising as large freezing events withdrew vast ammounts of fresh water from the oceans and large evaporation events and consecutive salt precipitation withdrew large ammounts of salt from the oceans. As you also pointed out salts are also leached from the land surfaces into the oceans. So one would expect the salinity of our oceans to have changed over long periods. Bahlburg and Breitkreuz highlight the role of the midlle oceanic ridge to answer this. If the salt content of the oceans rises Albitisation (Albite) will increas and withdraw Na+ from the water whereas Cl- will recombine with other cations, keeping salinity stable. If the salt content goes down Albitisation will slow down and again keep salinity stable. At hte middle oceanic ridge there is a conatant supply on which Albitisation can occur resulting in the salinity found in our oceans. If this is true your two double-earths should have salinities governed by the parent rock material and not controlled by absence of land masses or the mixing speed of the oceans. Unfortunately Bahlburg and Breitkreuz give no citation for their claim. Only suggestions for further reading at the end of the chapter. edit: Clarified the role of the oceanic ridge. edit: Replaced Albitisation link, which needed registration with a free access (and actually even better explaining) link.
Arenamontanus Arenamontanus's picture
Awesome point, I will need to
Awesome point, I will need to read up more about this. Especially since I might be able to use some of the double-earth calculations for a real academic exobiology paper.
Extropian
thezombiekat thezombiekat's picture
I would have thought the
I would have thought the amount of salt buffer would be limited. Consider the ratio of [rock area available to interact with water ~ surface aria of rocky planet] : [volume of water on surface] And now call those long descriptions A and V Now I am expecting the total amount of Na and CL available to form salt to be proportional to A, and if that is insufficient to reach the stable levels found in terrestrial oceans Albitisation (its cheating to use words I don’t know and link to a definition on a site that requires registration) will be low or non-existent and the absence of any salt entering the system (because the salt in surface rock dissolved long ago) will keep the salt concentration low. If Albitisation continues at a slow rate after all available salt is dissolved the salt concentration could actually drop. Will the ratio A:V be sufficiently low tor the total available salt to be less than the ideal concentration. I don’t know. On dry (being the name of a water world it still makes me twitch) it might be estimable. On wet we have another problem. The Ice crust will prevent interaction between the water and the rock crust. No rock means no Albitisation. So the next question becomes how much of the salt could dissolve from the rock crust before the ice crust formed and locked it apart. After that the quantity of salt in the ocean system will be constant even as temperature change causes the amount of water to vary so the salt concentration will change over time on wet. That or I am not getting it. This isn’t exactly my field of science.
Holy Holy's picture
thezombiekat wrote:I would
thezombiekat wrote:
I would have thought the amount of salt buffer would be limited. Consider the ratio of [rock area available to interact with water ~ surface aria of rocky planet] : [volume of water on surface] And now call those long descriptions A and V Now I am expecting the total amount of Na and CL available to form salt to be proportional to A,
This is exactly the point where the oceanic ridge comes into play. As oceanic crust is constantly build up at the ridge and melted down at the subduction zones, parts of A (oceanic crust) is constantly renewed. Therefore the oceans will not equilibrate with a finite volume (the planets surface) but with an for this timespan infinite reservoir (the planets interior).
thezombiekat wrote:
(its cheating to use words I don’t know and link to a definition on a site that requires registration)
Sorry for that. Did not realize that that page needs lock in. I exchanged the link.
thezombiekat thezombiekat's picture
Holy wrote:thezombiekat wrote
Holy wrote:
thezombiekat wrote:
I would have thought the amount of salt buffer would be limited. Consider the ratio of [rock area available to interact with water ~ surface aria of rocky planet] : [volume of water on surface] And now call those long descriptions A and V Now I am expecting the total amount of Na and CL available to form salt to be proportional to A,
This is exactly the point where the oceanic ridge comes into play. As oceanic crust is constantly build up at the ridge and melted down at the subduction zones, parts of A (oceanic crust) is constantly renewed. Therefore the oceans will not equilibrate with a finite volume (the planets surface) but with an for this timespan infinite reservoir (the planets interior).
i see. and with the increased tectonic activity on dry this will occur at an impressive rate. wet on the other hand has less tectonic activity than earth, and a thick, stable ice crust isolating the water from the rock crust. how do you think that will affect the result.
Holy Holy's picture
thezombiekat wrote:wet on the
thezombiekat wrote:
wet on the other hand has less tectonic activity than earth, and a thick, stable ice crust isolating the water from the rock crust. how do you think that will affect the result.
Arenas and your previous reckoning seems quite reasonable to me for that case.