Welcome! These forums will be deactivated by the end of this year. The conversation continues in a new morph over on Discord! Please join us there for a more active conversation and the occasional opportunity to ask developers questions directly! Go to the PS+ Discord Server.

Why is transhumanism such a sausagefest?

172 posts / 0 new
Last post
Sat, 2013-06-01 18:57
Smokeskin Smokeskin's picture
LatwPIAT wrote:
LatwPIAT wrote:
Smokeskin wrote:
For the same reason that physics, computer science and engineering is dominated by men. Science and technology doesn't interest most women.
The reason science and technology doesn't "interest" most women is because they're faced with institutionalized sexism and a prevalent attitude that they shouldn't be present in science and engineering circles. The misogyny and exclusive attitude they face, from pretty much the day they're born, and the same they face when pursuing that education, encourage them to avoid science and engineering education. Everything from the Polytechnique Massacre to Richard Stallman to casual sexual harassment creates a hostile environment that excludes women.
So you're saying that scientists harass women more than what they'd face in the rest of society? That's a pretty wild claim.
Quote:
This seems to contradict the state of things; if women are more privileged, how come their average income is lower?
When you don't factor in productivity that question becomes meaningless.
Quote:
Smokeskin wrote:
Ok, and then I look at how men in computer games and RPGs are portrayed - wow, they don't seem like regular men, they're much smarter, stronger, and/or more handsome! A lot of them are also really, really stupid villain henchmen, or they're sadistic evil overlords!
The stereotypes men face in computer games and RPGs are nowhere near as damaging or damning as those faced by women.
Please explain how those stereotypes are so much more damaging to women. And while you're at it, explain how say your idea that scientists harass women more than the average population is not stereotyping of a much worse kind. [/quote]
Extrasolar Angel wrote:
What I am against are ideological attempts to change these topics and their content in order to include larger amount of women.
Yeah. Us women are [i]soooooo[/i] annoying when we demand that we be included on equal terms. How dare we intrude upon your fun with a demand to be treated as equals. [/quote] I know you're on a feminist power trip, but seriously. You don't get to "intrude" and "demand" that anyone changes their content so it can "include" you. People are free to produce the content they want to and the content there's a market for. You don't have to like it. Go watch or play something else if you don't like it.
Quote:
Smokeskin wrote:
Plain false. Men are signicantly stronger and faster than women. I train MMA and there are some women there and it isn't even close. Women lack the size, body composition, muscle fibers and testosteron to compete where strength and explosive speed is needed.
I think you're overstating the significance and basing your conclusions off narrow observations with little data. The claim that there is, someplace, women who train MMA, who are't as strong as a certain group of men, does nothing to disprove the statement that with proper training, the average women is about equal to the average man with the same level of training.
Look, this pattern is repeated in all of sports. Men are significantly faster and stronger than women. That's just how it is. Look at world records. Look at videos of men and women playing the same games. There's a reason men and women don't compete, it is just no where near a level playing fíeld. I'm sure that it isn't biological though, it is the patriarchy suppressing women by forcing inefficient training routines, unhealthy diets and low self-confidence on them. That was sarcasm btw.
Quote:
Smokeskin wrote:
No. Somewhat self destructive though ;) Look up Ladder Theory. Women don't do their friends :)
Ladder theory is bollocks.
Did you notice the abundance of smileys in my post? It is one of those "it's funny cuz it's true" things though - there are certainly many very excellent points in it.
Quote:
Smokeskin wrote:
To be fair, that Martian Ranger has cold adaptation, so she doesn't need to wear much ;) and people only wear armor when they expect to get shot at.
Smokeskin wrote:
I think she's perfect. She's exactly what a redneck with EP cosmetic tech would look like.
These comments and attitudes are the kind that drive women away from RPGs...
You seem to not realise that in the real world there are cops and soldiers who in their spare time actually dress sexy. In RPGs, it is only the horrible role players who have characters that always wears their armor.
Quote:
jackgraham wrote:
That illo was the result of a creative struggle between us, an artist who wouldn't take direction when we said 'put clothes on her,' and the deadline for Sunward. [b]Just for the record: I fucking hate it.[/b] I like my women fighters in reasonable armor. But since drawing over her torso in brown marker wasn't really an option for a presentable book... there you go. Inadvertent fan servicing.
Respect for Jack Graham: +10 I also hope the artist doesn't mess up more illustrations with pointless objectification. That would be sad. *sadface*
What is sad about drawing people that dress like they do in the real world?
Top
Sat, 2013-06-01 19:32
Smokeskin Smokeskin's picture
LatwPIAT wrote:How come one
LatwPIAT wrote:
How come one of the more prevalent debates of the last few years is whether a woman has the right to control her own body?
Yeah I know. Women should be allowed to do what they want with their body. And it used to be just the patriarchy and religious twats that oppressed women, but now that feminists have come to power they want in on that controlling-women action too, in Iceland they even banned stripping: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strip_club_ban_in_Iceland.
Top
Sun, 2013-09-22 08:34
Baalbamoth Baalbamoth's picture
I really havent commented on this one much...
but I just wanted to say, I have two young, hot, alternative, bisexual women at my table who are NOT in relationships with any of the guys at the table, they love EP and are having a great time... so far EP has been way less of a sausage fest table wise than any game I have played in the past 5 years.
—
"what do I want? The usual — hundreds of grandchildren, complete dominion over the known worlds, and the pleasure of hearing that all my enemies have died in highly improbable accidents that cannot be connected to me."
Top
Sun, 2013-09-22 09:38
nizkateth nizkateth's picture
I wish...
Oh for a post-gender time, when [i]all of this[/i] will be [b]irrelevant[/b]. Edit: You know, thinking back on it, I'm not sure I have [i]as much[/i] problem with stuff like the Martian Ranger in EP. Specifically because, in Eclipse Phase, that could [i]just as easily[/i] be a [url=http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/GIRL]guy[/url]. It still does strike me as [i]strange[/i] though, if you try to say "they're off duty, and having fun" given that it seems like every other sample character is shown ready for action (whatever that is for the character; Venusian Negotiator is ready for socializing, for instance). Just an inconsistency there. We don't see the direct action or ultimate mercenaries in Hawaiian shorts by a pool, we see them decked out for battle.
—
Reapers: Do Not Taunt Happy Fun Ball. My watch also has a minute hand, millenium hand, and an eon hand.
Top
Tue, 2013-09-24 05:08
Smokeskin Smokeskin's picture
The Triad Soldier isn't
The Triad Soldier isn't armored up either. The Jovian Spy is very strangely stressed - he's not in civilian clothes to blend in, and he's not really dressed for black ops either with those bare arms. He's in black, tight clothing that highlights his pecs and bare shoulders and arms to show of his muscles. OMG sexual objectification! The evidence is clear. Posthuman Studios sees people as sex objects, not women in particular.
Top
Tue, 2013-09-24 07:56
nizkateth nizkateth's picture
Hmm.
The triad soldier looks like he's dressed to blend in (when not having his weapon drawn) which makes sense for a criminal. He doesn't [i]want[/i] to look like a combatant. I can only assume the Jovian is shown that way to display that he's a flat, face and arms out like that, otherwise... that has to just be the second skin or something, or it's hard to explain thermal dampening on his 'body armor' with so much exposed. [i]Would[/i] be better to see him in full covering armor, knife at the ready, like he's stalking a transhuman monster; I imagine they wanted to try and demonstrate the unattractive trait in some way, to emphasize flat-vs-transhuman appearance. Edit: Also, I'm trying to be level-headed here, so please don't be an ass. :P I'll grant the Jovian spy is likewise a bit off for the 'on-duty' look most sample characters have. I'm not even saying things like the Martian Ranger need to be changed, just where and how matters. If he/she (like I said, that could be a guy... yay re-sleeving ^_^) was in actual light combat armor (with offensive armor no-less) in the sample character shot, but was also in other artwork elsewhere in the book looking like that (hanging out at a dive bar with smoking pet), I don't think I'd really have a issue with it. That's the rub: context.
—
Reapers: Do Not Taunt Happy Fun Ball. My watch also has a minute hand, millenium hand, and an eon hand.
Top
Tue, 2013-09-24 17:32
Smokeskin Smokeskin's picture
Maybe that's just a
Maybe that's just a difference between our gaming styles. I have a strong dislike for characters that see themselves as being in heavy armor and carrying big guns. If you're running a military/mercenary campaign, I can see it making some sense, but generally people don't walk around like that. You're going to be going about your business with at best armor clothing and a pistol most of the time. If I wanted to see a tooled up character, I'd like to see this: [img]http://i625.photobucket.com/albums/tt333/flick271/8a19e233.jpg[/img] Someone who just got out the rifle, bandolier and balaclava from their kit bag and is now ready to dish out some hurt. And that's what it looks like on Wall Street - in Miami it's surfer shorts and bikinis.
Top
Tue, 2013-09-24 18:48
nizkateth nizkateth's picture
Yeah
Well, like I said, context matters. However, the specific example: the martian ranger, has light combat armor with offensive modding as part of their standard gear listing. And while it's [i]funny[/i] to think of an electrified bikini, it's not very practical out in the martian outback where you might get shot at routinely, and probably doesn't count as 'combat armor'.
—
Reapers: Do Not Taunt Happy Fun Ball. My watch also has a minute hand, millenium hand, and an eon hand.
Top
Wed, 2013-09-25 05:28
Smokeskin Smokeskin's picture
Maybe it is like being pale
Maybe it is like being pale in a society where most work outdoors, or being tan in a society of office workers. Wearing a bikini on Mars means you're awesome. Besides, even in the Martian outback I don't think anyone gets shot at routinely. It's not a warzone. And that duster is probably bulletproof and could be buttoned up. And I really don't see that picture as her engaging dangerous criminals or anything like that. Look at the baboon, focusing indulgently on smoking its cigar. They're in a social setting, doing their best to impress. Say she's walking into a Martian bar with the intent of getting all the rednecks to tell her what they know about those dissappearing nomads. Who wouldn't want to talk to her? And with her rifle and the violent but for now chilling baboon, no one would want to mess with her either. That picture has a ton more personality than some bloke in boring SWAT gear.
Top
Wed, 2013-09-25 06:47
nizkateth nizkateth's picture
Given that light combat armor
Given that light combat armor is worn by police and security forces (protecting 'from head to toe' as per the description), I somehow doubt a button-up duster and thigh-highs counts as light combat armor. He's (I'm sticking with that actually being a guy) not fully equipped, and yes... very obviously in a social situation. But that's not the point. The Ranger isn't a primary social character like the Venusian Negotiator. He faces criminal syndicates, rogue machines, and Titan threats; by the description. Yet his picture looks more like a pin-up than someone preparing to face danger. Given how close-fitting and custom-shaped armor seems to be in EP, his curves could still be obvious (if we must have some ogle factor), and like the Ultimate Merc can just as easily have no helmet to show the face; while actually still being dressed and equipped. And, like I said before, we could have a properly equipped character-picture and have art elsewhere in the book with the full scene (bar, rednecks, warrior-bikini, cigar-baboon, etc).
—
Reapers: Do Not Taunt Happy Fun Ball. My watch also has a minute hand, millenium hand, and an eon hand.
Top
Wed, 2013-09-25 22:38
Ranxerox Ranxerox's picture
Given that it is a picture of
Given that it is a picture of a female Martian ranger with a cigar smoking baboon, I suspect that the picture is suppose to be Sage Kim from the short story El Destino Verde at the beginning of Panopticon. However, Sage Kim is described as wearing "heavy boots, clothes made from drab fabric that looked like denim but acted like kevlar, well-worn sidearms, and rebreathers under dark balaklavas. Kim’s kit loosely followed the regulation uniform of the Tharsis League Rangers (which was how most rangers followed uniform regs—loosely)." No mention is made in the story to Sage Kim opening up the front of outfit so that everyone can ogle her killer bod. Still, Jack Graham has already said that the artist didn't follow directions well, so I don't think too much of the blame flows back to Transhuman Studios.
—
[img]http://i1111.photobucket.com/albums/h469/Jefferson_Watson/IU.jpg[/img] [img]http://i1111.photobucket.com/albums/h469/Jefferson_Watson/TC.jpg[/img] [img]http://i1111.photobucket.com/albums/h469/Jefferson_Watson/AU.jpg[/img]
Top
Sat, 2013-09-28 14:33
Smokeskin Smokeskin's picture
nizkateth wrote:Given that
nizkateth wrote:
Given that light combat armor is worn by police and security forces (protecting 'from head to toe' as per the description), I somehow doubt a button-up duster and thigh-highs counts as light combat armor. He's (I'm sticking with that actually being a guy) not fully equipped, and yes... very obviously in a social situation. But that's not the point. The Ranger isn't a primary social character like the Venusian Negotiator. He faces criminal syndicates, rogue machines, and Titan threats; by the description. Yet his picture looks more like a pin-up than someone preparing to face danger. Given how close-fitting and custom-shaped armor seems to be in EP, his curves could still be obvious (if we must have some ogle factor), and like the Ultimate Merc can just as easily have no helmet to show the face; while actually still being dressed and equipped. And, like I said before, we could have a properly equipped character-picture and have art elsewhere in the book with the full scene (bar, rednecks, warrior-bikini, cigar-baboon, etc).
As I said, I don't think chars should be doing their "jobs". Their "jobs" are their backgrounds and as PCs they'll be doing something different. I'd also rather see a scientist doing something sciency in a Firewallish encounter than sitting in a lab.
Top
Sat, 2013-09-28 15:06
LatwPIAT LatwPIAT's picture
Smokeskin wrote:As I said, I
Smokeskin wrote:
As I said, I don't think chars should be doing their "jobs". Their "jobs" are their backgrounds and as PCs they'll be doing something different. I'd also rather see a scientist doing something sciency in a Firewallish encounter than sitting in a lab.
Investigating possible X-threats. Best done in a bikini.
—
@-rep +2 C-rep +1
Top
Sun, 2013-09-29 01:44
Smokeskin Smokeskin's picture
LatwPIAT wrote:Smokeskin
LatwPIAT wrote:
Smokeskin wrote:
As I said, I don't think chars should be doing their "jobs". Their "jobs" are their backgrounds and as PCs they'll be doing something different. I'd also rather see a scientist doing something sciency in a Firewallish encounter than sitting in a lab.
Investigating possible X-threats. Best done in a bikini.
Why would doing something sciency on a Firewallish encounter be better done in a bikini?
Top
Sun, 2013-09-29 07:57
nizkateth nizkateth's picture
Concise
Given the limited space available for a single character portrait, I don't know that we're likely to see many full-situation pictures (something 'firewall-ish'). Or maybe we are... maybe the mobile scientist is in an environment suit for that exact reason. But the point remains that we basically get a shot of the character themselves, doing what they do. I'd personally [i]rather[/i] get a feel for what they are like on the job, since that [b]is[/b] their background, and then think "how will they fit into something like firewall" (if I even remember that firewall exists, I tend to forget and have never used them). I think the character portrait (as it is used pretty much every time so far) works best as a way of giving a general idea for what the character looks like and does, to help get a better sense for the character before using them in game.
—
Reapers: Do Not Taunt Happy Fun Ball. My watch also has a minute hand, millenium hand, and an eon hand.
Top
Sun, 2013-09-29 09:08
LatwPIAT LatwPIAT's picture
Smokeskin wrote:Why would
Smokeskin wrote:
Why would doing something sciency on a Firewallish encounter be better done in a bikini?
I tried to use irony with that post, but it seems to not have worked as intended.
—
@-rep +2 C-rep +1
Top
Sun, 2013-09-29 10:10
nizkateth nizkateth's picture
LatwPIAT wrote:I tried to use
LatwPIAT wrote:
I tried to use irony with that post, but it seems to not have worked as intended.
It was not lost on [i]everyone[/i]. ^_^ Though it makes me wonder if there's an agents-of-firewall pinup calendar. Equal opportunity [i]of course[/i] (male, female, synth, uplifts). [size=5]Octomorph women are leggy.[/size]
—
Reapers: Do Not Taunt Happy Fun Ball. My watch also has a minute hand, millenium hand, and an eon hand.
Top
Sun, 2013-09-29 11:56
Smokeskin Smokeskin's picture
LatwPIAT wrote:Smokeskin
LatwPIAT wrote:
Smokeskin wrote:
Why would doing something sciency on a Firewallish encounter be better done in a bikini?
I tried to use irony with that post, but it seems to not have worked as intended.
I got the ironic attempt and was merely pointing out your flawed premise. Did you miss that, or did you just try to dodge? Because, you know, there can be good reasons to wear a bikini without everyone having to wear one when doing science.
Top
Sun, 2013-09-29 13:07
LatwPIAT LatwPIAT's picture
Smokeskin wrote:Because, you
Smokeskin wrote:
Because, you know, there can be good reasons to wear a bikini without everyone having to wear one when doing science.
Well, you argued that you didn't want to see people in their work clothes because they're not doing their normal jobs when on Firewall missions. When talking about the Martian Ranger, who wears something that can without loss of generality be called a bikini. The irony should have stemmed from how bikinis are obviously not appropriate for [i]any[/i] Firewall mission. (Except ones that contrive to make it so.)
—
@-rep +2 C-rep +1
Top
Sun, 2013-09-29 14:03
Smokeskin Smokeskin's picture
LatwPIAT wrote:Smokeskin
LatwPIAT wrote:
Smokeskin wrote:
Because, you know, there can be good reasons to wear a bikini without everyone having to wear one when doing science.
Well, you argued that you didn't want to see people in their work clothes because they're not doing their normal jobs when on Firewall missions. When talking about the Martian Ranger, who wears something that can without loss of generality be called a bikini. The irony should have stemmed from how bikinis are obviously not appropriate for [i]any[/i] Firewall mission. (Except ones that contrive to make it so.)
Except if it is hot, or she's going to a club, or using sexiness to manipulate a mark like spies and con artists do, or that's just the fashion style, or she just likes turning mens' heads. Then it would be contrived. There's obviously A LOT more situations where it is more appropriate to wear skimpy clothing than armor.
Top
Sun, 2013-09-29 15:00
nizkateth nizkateth's picture
Smokeskin wrote:There's
Smokeskin wrote:
There's obviously A LOT more situations where it is more appropriate to wear skimpy clothing than armor.
Which is why you see a couple combat-focused male-morph characters in banana-hammocks. Standing so their package is prominently toward the viewer.
—
Reapers: Do Not Taunt Happy Fun Ball. My watch also has a minute hand, millenium hand, and an eon hand.
Top

Pages