LatwPIAT wrote:

Smokeskin wrote:

But no matter what we call it, when someone makes derogatory remarks about my sexuality, I'm going to call them out on it.

The "derogatory remarks" I've made about your "sexuality" has, as far as I'm aware, been that I don't think that some certain things that are made to titillate you belong in an RPG, on the basis that it is objectifying and demeaning to women. That's hardly a "derogatory remark", and I'm curious as to in what way you think it is.

First: You're seriously confused about why there are and should be "titillating" images. In real life, there are many "titillating" women, just as there are many men who try to impress women in various ways. It is realistic. A setting where no one is "titillating" works for something bleak and dystopian, but EP certainly has a lot of vibrant locales where people would certainly be "titillating" - and given the ease of body modification they'd be prettier and sexier than what we see today. You're objecting to realism. Second: When you say that my sexuality is demeaning to women, you're obviously being derogatory.

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Smokeskin wrote:

I'm getting pretty tired of hearing your bigotred commentary about the sexuality of people like myself and my girlfriend. What you're saying is EXACTLY the same as when right wing pundits make a problem out of MTV's "gay agenda" or some such stigmatizing nonsense. If you can't dial down the hetero hate, then maybe not post?

As I understand it, "bigoted commentary" is commentary that furthers hatred, contempt or intolerance of other people. The only way I could possibly parse what I've been saying as one "bigotry" is in the sense that I don't tolerate heavily sexualized and objectifying images of women in an RPG sourcebook purely for the purposes of titillation, or comments that support the inclusion of heavily sexualized and objectifying images of women in an RPG sourcebook purely for the purposes of titillation. In that sense, yes, I am in fact making bigoted statements about your sexuality; I don't approve and will not permit that you exercise your sexuality by supporting the inclusion of heavily sexualized and objectifying images of women in an RPG sourcebook for the purposes of your own titillation.

I honestly don't use EP products for my own "titillation" - there are many other sources for that that are vastly superior in that regard. What I'm objecting to is people like you who jump in at anything even remotely sexy and claiming that it is demeaning to women and just there to get us off. Not only is it bigoted against other people's sexuality, it is also a totally ridiculous statement. What you're asking for is that the artist drop realism in order to purge anything sexual from the art. Why are you so scared of common straight sexuality that you feel it has to be purged?

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But that's hardly "hereto hate" or the feminist equivalent of complaining about the "gay agenda"; I do not hold or express hatred towards you because you are heterosexual, and I'm not trying to suppress your right to have, express or even enjoy your sexuality as a normal part of society.

Hah. As if. How do you feel about say the amount of skinny, beautiful women with large breasts and great hair in media? That I think most women benefit from breast implants and hair extensions?

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What I am saying is that [i]things that serve to titillate you have no place in an RPG sourcebook if they are dependent upon the objectification and fetishistic sexualization of women[/i] - which is an opinion I hold pretty much independent of your sexuality. I don't think things, irrespective of whether they titillate, belong in an RPG sourcebook [i]if they are dependent upon the objectification and fetishistic sexualization of women [b]or men[/b][/i].

Look, you can keep on saying the same thing, it doesn't make it true. Many people's sexuality are based around what you would call objectification and fetishistic sexualization. If you want to depict people in a realisticly, there's going to be images of people being sexy - which means playing on the preferences of the partner you're trying to impress.

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This has nothing to do with your heterosexuality or your enjoyment of fetishized depictions of women. My problem is with the fact that you're demanding that this [i]not[/i] be treated as inappropriate for an RPG sourcebook, thereby perpetuating discrimination against women by portraying sexism as a normal part of society.

And there you go with the hetero hate again. It is not discriminating. Plenty of people, male and female, have no problem with it and in fact enjoy it. Just because you don't and you wouldn't like it that doesn't give you the right to label it as discriminating. I'm straight it would certainly hate being involved in gay sex, but you don't see me getting offended by the way "gay porn depicts men as someone that should receive anal sex". Why would I?

Pig teats/catsuits/gender-sex-etc.-issues: turn to page 46. All non-pigteat/catsuit/etc. TH general discussion: turn to page 21.