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Criminals, forks & backups.

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The Green Slime The Green Slime's picture
Criminals, forks & backups.
I'm wondering about the various common legal situations regarding criminals and their forks and backups... Say Bob creates an alpha fork, who then kills someone with malice and forethought. What repercussions might there be for the original Bob? Presumably the alpha is deemed legally distinct from the original (who may at most be on the hook for conspiracy charges), but since original-Bob didn't actually kill anyone, he can't possibly be deemed a murderer. But what if, before any arrest is made, the alpha returns to original-Bob and they merge? Is Bob now the murderer? Can he create another alpha fork and let him be arrested for the crime? Would all the fork's legal woes immediately and irrevocably transfer to the original (and therefore all subsequent forks) upon merging? I think perhaps the original self would be given some form of probation/suspended sentence for his fork's crimes, his forking rights would be limited or stripped completely, and he'd be subject to heavy surveillance for some time to come. Also, would criminals be permitted to reinstantiate from pre-conviction backups? If Bob is convicted for the murder and finds himself sentenced to 50 years real-time detention, what's to stop his family, friends and co-workers filling the void by simply resleeving his last backup? Might some or all of his backups be impounded (like evidence, and able to be reinstantiated as state property), or even deleted? How could a court argue that past-selves are culpable for crimes their copies would go on to commit?
NewtonPulsifer NewtonPulsifer's picture
What jurisdiction are we
What jurisdiction are we talking about? Anyway, in PC space and you deliberately alpha fork, "you" in a legal sense don't exist any more. The new alpha fork is "you". So they punish the new alpha fork as a murderer and delete or merge the "original". So post merge scenario ego is still punished as a murderer. Instantiating an alpha fork is a serious felony in PC jurisdiction if there's another one out there already. So no legal reinstantiations from backup because you miss your convict.
"I fear all we have done is to awaken a sleeping giant and fill him with a terrible resolve."- Isoroku Yamamoto
DivineWrath DivineWrath's picture
First, in the inner system,
First, in the inner system, creating an alpha fork is considered a crime (I don't know the severity off-hand), so the original ego could be charged for that at the very least. The Alpha fork could be deleted without consequence to the legal authorities (though they might keep a copy on hand for court). In addition, all forks are considered property of the original ego, so your property killing someone else will not make you look good. The original ego would likely be considered responsible for letting lose something dangerous to the public. Second is the problem with what the original would have done. If the original ego created an alpha fork with no modifications and had it kill someone, wouldn't that mean that the original could have done the same? What if someone snatched both egos within moments of the alpha fork being created, and had them swap morphs in such a way that the original thought it was the fork, and the fork thought it was the original? Would things turn out differently? The way I see it is, a fork is remarkably similar to the original. So similar in fact, that if the forks don't receive extensive modifications to make them act differently, that any action a fork takes is something that the original probably would have done. How probably is dependent on how different the fork is from the original. An alpha is practically the same if it doesn't even know its a fork, while a beta and delta forks would have some differences. Mind you, I'm thinking with a strongly materialistic philosophy right now. In such a system, free will does not exist. We are all stimulus response engines that take one course of action, could only take that one course of action, and could not have taken any other course of action because the design of our minds and the stimulus we had to work with only allows for 1 possibility. If you knew the past, you could predict the future. Since people can tinker with egos and change it to produce desirable results, I imagine that a lot more people in Eclipse Phase think in a similar materialist manner than what exists in our world. I pretty sure if they can create forks, then at least a few people probably have created experiments where they make a 100 alpha forks, then put those forks and the original ego into identical simulations, and then run them all to see if any of them would act differently...
Ilmarinen Ilmarinen's picture
Well, since you specifically
Well, since you specifically mention merging - yes, Bob is now absolutely the murderer. The fact that he's also someone who spent the same time period doing normal work and goofing off with friends doesn't diminish his guilt.
[------------/Nation States/-----------] [-----/Representative Democracy/-----] [--------/Regulated Capitalism/--------]
Ranxerox Ranxerox's picture
Per Panopticon
Quote:
Identity gets a bit tricky when forking is called into play. Alpha forks have the same brainprint as each other, at least at first. For legal purposes, most jurisdictions treat alpha forks as the same person up to a certain time period of divergence (4 hours being common in the Consortium, but ranging up to a day or even a week in some habitats) or alternately treat the originators as legal guardians of their alpha forks (and thus legally responsible for their actions).
So, yeah, in most places Bob will be treated however they treat murders if the fork is fresh. However, even if the fork has diverged, I suspect they are going to look long and hard for evidence of involvement, premeditation and or conspiracy on Bob's part.
Quincey Forder Quincey Forder's picture
in case of fork created as alibi?
Say Bob learned his trophy wife cheated on him, but he's too much in public eye to do something himself so he forks himself an alpha and sleeve him (or her, just to cover his ass) in a black market purchased morph Then discretely instanciate a backup of himself of before he learned of his wife's cheating hobbies (after all ignorance is Bliss) then kills his current self Back up reinstantiated Bob continues of living, his wife happy to have him back after a freak accident, is none the wiser. Meanwhile, the killer fork tracks their target and kills him after making sure the target's backup was pruned in such a way he would loath Bob's wife and avoid her at any cost. But there is a problem, chase insue and Fork Bob is shot down resisting arrest During the autopsy of the morph, it's discovered Fork Bob is a Fork A created shortly before original Bob died in a freak accident and was reinstantiated from a previous backup. What's going to happen to unsuspecting, happy go merry resleeved Bob?
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hhexo hhexo's picture
Interesting...
Quincey Forder wrote:
What's going to happen to unsuspecting, happy go merry resleeved Bob?
I don't know, but the whole thing sounds like a fantastic setup for an EP adventure! The player characters might be the police trying to piece together the clues and find out what actually happened. Or maybe Resleeved Bob is accused of complicity with the Killer Bob fork, and this has huge political and PR repercussions, so he hires the player characters to investigate and prove he wasn't involved (then they'll have a moral dilemma when they discover that he did, indeed, create the fork with the purpose of killing the target). In fact, it reminds me of Richard Morgan's "Altered Carbon", where
Spoiler: Highlight to view
Bancroft has no idea whether he was murdered or committed suicide, and if he did commit suicide, why has he done so. Therefore Kovacs is hired to discover the truth.
Quincey Forder Quincey Forder's picture
they'd be more in the shoes of the LT's partner, there
from the same novel ^^ which is one of my all time favorite, along with Ender's Game and La Nuit Des Enfants Rois (aka The Prodigies, adapted in animated CGI a couple years ago)! I like your idea for one of the PCs being Bob and hiring the others Could be interesting if one of the players was also the cop trying to solve the case!
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nerdnumber1 nerdnumber1's picture
How do you prove it?
While the punishment is definitely going to rely on jurisdiction (in PC space, forks are your property and your responsibility, but out on the rim, you may be considered independent entities), but a big problem here might be proving that you weren't involved in some way, or were forked later or re-merged later. Heck there might be cases where someone mass-alpha-forked himself in a mad dash to escape justice. This legal quagmire is one reason why the inner system dislikes high-order forks. Assuming that the specifics of when and why you forked/re-instantiated (along with how many forks are out there), the repercussions probably vary from hab-to-hab. Even if you do go free however, your rep could be trashed since you are proven to be capable of murder and are unlikely to be trusted any-place which dislikes that.