Welcome! These forums will be deactivated by the end of this year. The conversation continues in a new morph over on Discord! Please join us there for a more active conversation and the occasional opportunity to ask developers questions directly! Go to the PS+ Discord Server.

impunity and the wealthy ones

12 posts / 0 new
Last post
Quincey Forder Quincey Forder's picture
impunity and the wealthy ones
Hello! While reading Cyberforce, a question popped in my mind: What would happen if the heir of an extremely wealthy oligarch owning a big hypercorp was found amids a group of Autonomists/Anarchists/Barsoomians and willingly aiding them in action against the Consortium, including firing at law enforcers and destroying their stacks? And smuggling illegal stuff like weapons, drugs, Nanoware, runaway indentured egos, nanofabrication blueprints and materials such as Cornucopia Machine Or bombing some domes, building, factories etc What would the punishment be, if any, considering whom her sire was?
[center] Q U I N C E Y ^_*_^ F O R D E R [/center] Remember The Cant! [img]http://tinyurl.com/h8azy78[/img] [img]http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg205/tachistarfire/theeye_fanzine_us...
NewtonPulsifer NewtonPulsifer's picture
Assuming they were publicly
Assuming they were publicly disowned by the oligarch (and the Consortium public bought it), they would most likely be treated more harshly than your typical troublemaker (due to their high profile), but with more public interest and paparazzi. Punishment would be more harsh - even by the most "fair" magistrates because they would want to appear impartial. Sometimes it actually sucks to be the General's son in the army.
"I fear all we have done is to awaken a sleeping giant and fill him with a terrible resolve."- Isoroku Yamamoto
The Green Slime The Green Slime's picture
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki
Relevant: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patty_Hearst I imagine they'd first work to cover it up at any cost, hiring bounty hunters to track and return the wayward offspring with a minimum of fuss. Should the story break, they'd then try to manage the shitstorm by slurring the mental health of the "victim", who has clearly been corrupted by the madness of the impotent underclass: if returned it would be made sure some kind of insanity defence was tenable and they'd be buried in a psych ward until they smarten up, possibly via psychosurgery if required.
Quincey Forder Quincey Forder's picture
Okay, that's one possible scenario dealt with
Now for another scenario, Rod Sterling style The CEO of a policing hypercorps is also leading a gang of dangerous criminals known for killing (Real death, by destroying stacks kind of of killing) cops and corporates. the habitat's governor is in it, too, and charges the citizen, mostly rich folks, a fortune for the protection of their elite securitarian enclave in the habitat, while the plebes are plagued by the gang. One day by accident, his vice-president get winds of what's going one between the governor and the CEO and the gang. What do you think is going to happen?
[center] Q U I N C E Y ^_*_^ F O R D E R [/center] Remember The Cant! [img]http://tinyurl.com/h8azy78[/img] [img]http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg205/tachistarfire/theeye_fanzine_us...
The Green Slime The Green Slime's picture
If the racket was to be
If the racket was to be exposed (assuming it's done with irrefutable evidence) then I should think the governor and CEO, even with death squads at their disposal, wouldn't have a leg to stand on: the public would be outraged at the assassinations (possibly to the point of anarchy, as they'd believe all the authorities are corrupt) and the elite would be equally if not more pissed that they've been scammed into paying protection money. Assuming the VP can make any attempts at eliminating him a self-defeating move (say, he sets up a dead man's switch that will immediately broadcast the damning evidence the second he or his family are harmed or kidnapped) then he'll have the winning hand, with leverage to do as he pleases with the governor, CEO and the whole operation. If the VP doesn't have irrefutable evidence, then he's shit out of luck with zero leverage and a target on his back. I imagine the plan would be first to try and induct him into the scam, or if that seems at all doubtful, kill him and make it look like suicide, accident, or the highest-profile hit yet carried out by the terrorist gang - which would have the happy side-effect of helping to boost sales of security packages amongst the rich and powerful.
Quincey Forder Quincey Forder's picture
ohhh this would make a great adventure! but what about...
...the outside powers? The Consortium, or the Titanian Commonwealth, or the LLA? Would they get involved in this mess?
[center] Q U I N C E Y ^_*_^ F O R D E R [/center] Remember The Cant! [img]http://tinyurl.com/h8azy78[/img] [img]http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg205/tachistarfire/theeye_fanzine_us...
The Green Slime The Green Slime's picture
For the Consortium (who I'm
For the Consortium (who I'm assuming are the hab's ruling faction) getting involved, I guess that depends on what you decide is the exact nature of the hab's government and geopolitical import. Does full PC law apply, or is the hab just a crappy backwater hidden away in some subsidiary-of-a-subsidiary legal loophole that gives the governor absolute control? Presumably such a bold racket wouldn't be set up where it's likely to be busted by a properly functioning system of law and order. Assuming it's positioned in the inner system and not intimately close with any other settlements (say, beanstalked to a sister hab on the surface of Luna or Ceres), what incentives would any outside forces have to interfere in the drama? It's just a domestic shake-down racket that doesn't really threaten anyone off the hab, though you could easily rope outside interests in - maybe the death squads kill a visitor and piss off his powerful friends? Maybe a group of naive Titanian aid workers are trying to set up nanofabbers to help the poor, and they get taken out? Essentially this scenario is pretty much the situation going on right now in about thirty countries from South America to the Middle East and Africa, where political/economic kidnapping and murder are the growth industries. You could maybe google up stories from Columbia, Somalia or Iraq for inspiration.
Quincey Forder Quincey Forder's picture
would also depend on the type of exports produced by the hab?
if the hab produces valuable stuff like rare metal mining, anti-matter refining, nanofabrication base material production, wouldn't the PC be motived to get involved? invade the place, get rid of the Governor and CEO and place more pliable chiefs at the end of the hab and company and ripe the benefits, while keeping a "security" contengent in place, under some pretences?
[center] Q U I N C E Y ^_*_^ F O R D E R [/center] Remember The Cant! [img]http://tinyurl.com/h8azy78[/img] [img]http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg205/tachistarfire/theeye_fanzine_us...
The Green Slime The Green Slime's picture
I'd say that would only
I'd say that would only happen if the resource output is threatened. Is the governor's shake-down racket impacting the hab's output? In most cases having a corrupt despot in charge is good for business - outsiders only have to negotiate with the one head honcho who they know is in absolute control, which is better than having to deal with an endless assortment of small-time pretenders and wannabes who may not be trustworthy or effective. So as long as the governor keeps the revenue streams flowing, and the rich are getting richer, who would give a crap what heinous crimes are plaguing the populace? e.g. Does any politician or business leader in the West today really care about the paramilitary death squads, governmental corruption and warlordism surrounding the African diamond industry, South American emeralds, Chinese rare metals, etc. enough to launch vastly expensive attempt at reforming those countries' bullshit practices? We all know this stuff goes on - we even make Hollywood movies to 'raise awareness' of the tragic issues - but the capitalist systems we live by ensure no substantial change can happen. Similarly, the PC is a corporatocracy that cares about its bottom line, and preserving just enough of a veneer of civilisation to ensure that bottom line isn't jeopardised by unnecessary political instability. You could have do-gooder aid agencies working on behalf of the PC to ameliorate the worst symptoms of the poverty and violence (which likely just has the effect of blunting the populace's will to rise up and reform, as they become aid-dependent), and maybe even local upstart politicians presenting some glimmer of hope (at least, until they're bought out and adopted into the status quo, or killed), but unless there's the strong possibility of a major political upheaval that will kick the PC out completely in favour of an alternate form of governance, then what reason would the board of directors have to spend money on an interdiction? Maybe write in a burgeoning autonomist movement that are working on smuggling in nanofabbers, or a dispersed [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kony_2012]Kony 2012[/url]-style meme that is motivating people to organise against the death squads and disrupt the hab's export industry. Once dissent begins to threaten profits, the PC would likely lean hard on the governor to restore order (which he can do by stepping up the killing, or stopping it completely; of course the former is usually the way they go, as once you've begun to rule by fear you can only impose more fear), and when he fails to deliver on that stability, then the PC would move in to replace him, violently if that's the way he chooses to play it.
NewtonPulsifer NewtonPulsifer's picture
Quincey Forder wrote:Now for
Quincey Forder wrote:
Now for another scenario, Rod Sterling style The CEO of a policing hypercorps is also leading a gang of dangerous criminals known for killing (Real death, by destroying stacks kind of of killing) cops and corporates. the habitat's governor is in it, too, and charges the citizen, mostly rich folks, a fortune for the protection of their elite securitarian enclave in the habitat, while the plebes are plagued by the gang. One day by accident, his vice-president get winds of what's going one between the governor and the CEO and the gang. What do you think is going to happen?
I find it hard to believe that someone who has enough resources to have a stack wouldn't back themselves up relatively regularly if there were a gang of stack-crunching bad guys in the news. Even if there weren't this group in the news I'd imagine people would back up once every couple of months at least. So I don't buy the premise unless they're murdering space Amish or something.
"I fear all we have done is to awaken a sleeping giant and fill him with a terrible resolve."- Isoroku Yamamoto
Arenamontanus Arenamontanus's picture
One has to consider what
One has to consider what matters to the rich and powerful, and that is reputation. The kind of people who do everything to become and stay hyperelite do it because they want to *be* elite - they want to be adored/feared by their lessers, but even more they want acceptance from their peers. That means you have to fit in. The amount of conformism among billionaires is actually pretty strong - you cannot have too weird ideas or habits, you better show up for golf or the other suitable hobbies, and when you give to charity you better give to a *reasonable* charity. Sure, there are plenty of rich people who just happen to be rich, but if you do not play the reputation game you will not have any advantage of your wealth besides having money. The real thing about being in the elite is that doors open, you get access to key people and you can work out mutually beneficial deals. And this requires understanding tact and the unspoken rules. (glitterati are of course something different, but most are merely decoration - they do not have as much power and wealth) Having a black sheep in the family must be handled gently. People are willing to ignore and forget things, but it is an embarrassment. So the traditional method has been to hire enough lawyers, shrinks, spin doctors and reputation managers to keep their peccadilloes out of the public. Sending them off for detox in the Kuiper belt might be a good choice. But if it cannot be done, then cutting ties is likely the best method. Spending traceable resources to hide illegal activities is too risky: besides public fury, you will have competitors and enemies who could document it and use it to seriously attack you. This actually suggests a PC mission: keep track of the embarrassing black sheep and try to cover up what she is doing. The black sheep is appallingly random... or is she? Maybe she has a plan. In fact, she might be working for her dad's biggest competitor to drag him into trouble. Or both of them. Some brats just want to see the world burn.
Extropian
Quincey Forder Quincey Forder's picture
As usual, you rock!
Thanks for the awesome ideas, mate! That story hook of the players having to clean up after the rebellous heir really is an interesting one, especially if she works for/with Daddy Dearest's worst ennemy/competitor. Imagine if she was to marry him and get a mercurial uplift as witness/maid of honor! (yup, that's indeed a double reference to Gargoyles, there, folks! "Outfoxed" and "Vows") More seriously, wouldn't the head of familly want to keep the black sheep from spreading ambarassing/dangerous secrets if he or she was arrested? -Anyway, here's another scenario following the same theme Ronnie has been kidnapped (with backup corrupted, bodyguard killed and missing their stacks, the whole family's morphs killed, data stolen, and all), and a tremendously huge ransom has been demanded, in money, shares and real estate. Big enough to really fuck up with the family control over the century old company that had seen many different changes to survive. Pay up or the baby girl is going to face real death. Except... Ronnie is the one behind her own kidnapping, having made her back up in a non-PC controlled place (Titan, Extropia, maybe even Locus). Time is slipping. And the choices are getting narrower. Until the sand grain slips into the cogs of Ronnie's plan. One of her accomplices got arrested for previously committed crime, and to avoid erasure sentense, he spills the bean that Ronnie is the one who calls the shot, who killed her own bodyguard and poisoned the air/water supply of the manor. The bodyguard's stacks were disposed of, and the ransom specially designed to ruin the familly. He doesn't know where Ronnie is, or if he even talked to the original or a fork after the kidnapping, but he is adamant that she's the brain of the whole operation. He also ask for witness protection, because the li'l lady has killed another accomplice before who dared to question her. Killed, took his stack and erased his back up (she's really thorough and dedicated) What could happen to Ronnie, should she be found?
[center] Q U I N C E Y ^_*_^ F O R D E R [/center] Remember The Cant! [img]http://tinyurl.com/h8azy78[/img] [img]http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg205/tachistarfire/theeye_fanzine_us...