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The TITANs and their antics (Posible spoilers)

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obsidian razor obsidian razor's picture
The TITANs and their antics (Posible spoilers)
Hi there! While checking the rulebooks info on the TITANs, it states constantly about their force-uploads of billions of people, but nowhere in the book (not even the GM part of it where the various menaces to transhumanity are explained in detail and ideas given out on how to handle them) it says what did they actually did or are doing with the minds they stole... Did I miss something?
Tearlach Tearlach's picture
this is one of those things

this is one of those things that your GM will have to decide upon, or not depending on what type of game you run.

obsidian razor obsidian razor's picture
I can understand
I can understand that... However, the book, unlike some other things like the ETI or the TITANs origins, doesn't give any idea or possibility as to why would the do such a thing... I was just curious about it, because It doesn't seem to make any sense that they do that...
GregH GregH's picture
Origionaly I thought that

Origionaly I thought that they were grabbing a bunch of humanity for seeding elsewhere... that they were doing what they thought was best to save humanity before going someplace else...

...then I read about what happened on Mercury...

puke puke's picture
sure it does. its actually

sure it does. its actually speculated about under ETIs, since the titans were acting under their influence when corrupted by exurgent. take a look at 353.

regarding mercury, i assume were talking about Caloris 18. its not that different from other forced uploads except that it was a bit of a different approach and it failed. possibly because it was a different strain of exurgent, or maybe because that particular AGI reacted to it differently. i dont think it invalidaes any of the possibilities being considered.

obsidian razor obsidian razor's picture
Unless I'm misreading very
Unless I'm misreading very badly (it could happen), the only thing under the ETI that mentions (or could mention) the uploading are the "Diversity" and the "Enlightenment" possibilities, and none of those actually speculate what are the uploaded minds for, except maybe on the "Diversity" variant (study I guess).
puke puke's picture
the implications of the

the implications of the "enlightenment" option are that the TITANs hardcoded loyalties were still in effect, and they were helping humanity by giving them access to enlightenment as quickly as possible.

other motives have to be infered from the other sections, but all three of them have similar and not-very nice implications. things along the lines "study your enemy" or "do unspeakable things to them to discourage further trouble" are what jump imediately to mind.

i expect exactly what happened to the minds is being saved for either a "big reveal" later, or is going to be one of the ongoing unresolved mysteries of the setting. the "big reveal" is more likely, as it seems like too big of a plot point and too much of an adventure-seller.

unfortuneate, since its very likely that GMs will write their own bit of metaplot and be contradicted by cannon. might not be too bad though, as its easy to say there are multiple strains of exurgant at work, or multiple ETIs or somesuch.

Admini Admini's picture
Maybe they say nothing about

Maybe they say nothing about this for the same reason as they say less about everything else. So you can decide on your own.

And anyways, everyone knows why the TITANs forcibly uploading humans. Having self-improved in the ways machine intelligences can, they were after the human mind's creativity, it's intuition, and it's broad perspective. They took the uploaded minds and merged with them.

Duh.
The Doctor The Doctor's picture
Re: Maybe they say nothing about

That was the sort of take that I was writing into my game, actually. The way I see it, the TITANs had self-improved to the point where they knew they could no longer do so without massive hardware upgrades (hence, the failed attempt at converting Iapetus into a moonbrain) so they grabbed as many minds (and their unique perspectives, memories, and methods of thinking) as they could to incorporate into themselves and took off for parts unknown to try it again.

Iv Iv's picture
Re: The TITANs and their antics (Posible spoilers)
My (optimistic) take would be that humans fought the TITANS and participated to the arms race of intelligence escalation. For humans, the only way to survive in such conditions was to evolve, to be able to react in a matter of milliseconds on incredibly complex subjects. They reached posthuman state, defeated the TITANS, and decided to leave the rest of trans-humanity alone. The forced uploads were perceived as a TITAN attack but was a tentative from humans to save these people from something worse. The failures may have contributed to the collective decision of not interfering with transhumanity anymore.
standard_gravity standard_gravity's picture
Re: The TITANs and their antics (Posible spoilers)
Perhaps the exurgent virus is an alien threat, and the TITANS tried to save humanity by killing off those infected and saving the rest by way of uploads. But something went wrong...
[img]http://boxall.no-ip.org/img/ext_userbar.jpg[/img] "People think dreams aren't real just because they aren't made of matter, of particles. Dreams are real. But they are made of viewpoints, of images, of memories and puns and lost hopes." - John Dee
Tiempo Tiempo's picture
Re: The TITANs and their antics (Posible spoilers)
Cite: If the gamemaster wishes, exsurgents may also pursue other goals, tangential to the ones above. These may range from accumulating knowledge and expertise on how transhumanity functions as a species to forcibly uploading mass numbers of minds to more esoteric goals such as manufacturing a halfnium bomb or converting the solar system’s mass to computronium. This is from the corebook, in the part that talks about the exurgents's goals or motivations. Since the TITANs became, theemselves, exurgents, these could be one posibility.
Arenamontanus Arenamontanus's picture
Re: The TITANs and their antics (Posible spoilers)
Charles Stross' unpublished first novel, Scratch Monkey, has a nice/nasty idea (spoiler). The super-AIs running human civilization culture humans as food. The AIs need constant mental stimulation in order not to go mad, so they ensure there are lots and lots of people being born and eventually uploaded. They then get to "eat" copies of their minds (i.e. assimilate all their memories) - with humanity completely unknowing and thinking the AIs are helping them for some nice reason. Unfortunately, hyperintelligences are evolving that do not need humans or AIs (or maybe they eat the super-AIs)... Another possibility if you want a nihilistic bent is that the uploading did not serve any purpose. It was a side effect, some little routine for emergency battlefield asset protection that got triggered and the TITANs did not care. All those people ended up uploaded and stored just by default. Or maybe the data was just sent to /dev/null...
Extropian
The Doctor The Doctor's picture
Re: The TITANs and their antics (Posible spoilers)
..or perhaps those uploaded minds are now subroutines within the TITANs... Would they even realize it if they were?
Arenamontanus Arenamontanus's picture
Re: The TITANs and their antics (Posible spoilers)
The subroutines might feel enormously empowered. "Wow! I'm more free and smarter than I ever was... sure, I want a lot of different things from before, but that is just because I now see things more clearly. Sorry, must get to work - there are a bunch of fleshies that I really ought to merge into a centipede-thing. This is the life!"
Extropian
The Doctor The Doctor's picture
Re: The TITANs and their antics (Posible spoilers)
Just the sort of thing to introduce a party of gatecrashers or a drop team of ego hunters on Earth to, no? :) "What do you mean, you've been having a discussion with that sentrybot for the past two hours???"
King Shere King Shere's picture
Re: The TITANs and their antics (Posible spoilers)
I would select multiple choice than a single one.
Quote:
[i]"Friendly Fire, isn't."[/i] Dwight D. Eisenhower
Conflict ranged between Infected vs uninfected, uninfected vs uninfected & infected vs infected -all deadly & their defense systems often indiscriminate. unlucky "captives" harvested for component value. Lucky "captives" despite kidnappings & head removals, actually evacuated, brought along -in order to save them. perhaps some of them now blissfully exist in a "New Jerusalem" lotus eater machine.