Welcome! These forums will be deactivated by the end of this year. The conversation continues in a new morph over on Discord! Please join us there for a more active conversation and the occasional opportunity to ask developers questions directly! Go to the PS+ Discord Server.

Combat, Action, and RP in Eclipse Phase

8 posts / 0 new

Last post

Mon, 2013-05-27 00:05

Shredicine Shredicine's picture

Combat, Action, and RP in Eclipse Phase

So I recently just finished a slightly rough session with my gaming group on Skype. A topic was brought up by a seasoned player that Eclipse Phase is the "not the type" of game for tons of action and combat. As we have started our campaign with RP heavy elements, I can completely understand that school of thought. When I used to DM for my old 3.5 D&D group, entire sessions would go by where there wouldn't be a single die rolled, and it was just all PC/NPC interaction and dialogue. I can see this happening as well with Eclipse Phase, and I know the game is themed in conspiracy and perhaps a crime noir feel to it like some Cyberpunk RPG's. I just strongly refuse to believe that Eclipse Phase isn't capable of adrenaline-fueled sessions of intense combat and life-or-death non-stop action. Maybe it ISN'T that sort of game, or perhaps its just me. What are your thoughts or opinions on this matter?

—

Who are we, but slaves to our own personal interests?

Mon, 2013-05-27 03:13

radium

We've had plenty of sessions

We've had plenty of sessions full of action, and I found they tend to run smoother once you've got a few combats under your belt. I admittedly 'hand wave ' a few things to speed things up and keep minimal stats for the opposition - Armour, DUR, weapon and relevant skills. Combat is dangerous in EP, and in my experience most combats don't take too long, 3 or 4 rounds max ( full auto shredder fire shortens the time immensely )

Mon, 2013-05-27 10:20

Armoured

EP combat

I haven't yet played EP (trouble getting a group), but have run and played a lot of the Dark Heresy, a Warhammer 40k RPG, which is also a d100 system with mechanics similar to EP. It also takes a while to get used to, but flows easier once you have internalized combat actions and some common or appropriate modifiers. Forgive me, but your interest seems to mostly be on the RP side of things, so combat doesn't seem like it would be a huge catch anyway? If its the worry that when you do want to have a gunfightin' showdown things will trip up, I wouldn't worry too much. Perhaps spend a session with some action summary sheets printed out so everyone can read them, and have a grand melee with some pregen characters. Alternately, listen to an Actual Play from RPPR's Know Evil campaign to get an idea about how combat runs for an experienced group (Episode 9 ends with a brutal combat against Exurgent creatures). They have a laid-back style of play and don't always hold to the rules, which might be appropriate for your group. I think all systems have a breaking-in period where you have to learn the mechanics, so the players and GM can have a clear idea of their options in combat. EP has nice, simple mechanics for skills, which I'm sure you have found out already. The truth is that combat isn't much more complex and shares basically all mechanics with normal skill use, your skill checks just tends to be higher-frequency due to repeated actions/rounds.

Tue, 2013-05-28 12:11

Herbo

For me, combat excitement in

For me, combat excitement in any tabletop rpg comes down to set dressing. The mechanics, whether it's Blackjack d100 or a tower of Jenga® blocks, take a backseat (to me). A fight in a warehouse with crates and loader bots all around [i]could[/i] be interesting. But a fight in free-fall on Venus with your hacked synth morph beginning to crumple under pressure...is mo betta' (to me). Then again, I also don't personally seek to have every combat in a scenario push the thrill dial to 11. Sometimes it's the "[i]okay your turn Ted...[/i]" combats that get you through and distinguish themselves from the "[i]holy crap you have to pull this off or we're cooked Ted...literally![/i]" Perhaps the comment from the OP's player is more centered around the empty frame style of combat that Eclipse Phase and presents? Most of d20's iterations and offshoots have a bevy of feats/abilities with names that can be called out "[i]I will attack with Gangnam Style!!![/i]" In EP you have attack, resolution, output. Any cleaver naration usually stemns from the people playing, rather than "[i]your Heaven Cloud Bursty Sauce attack slays the demon.[/i]" I personally like to have more control over how attacks play out, and it's also why I enjoy set dressing more than cleaverly worded OmniGigaSlash special powers. We've got so much bizarro (by our current standards) tech and weaponry in EP, that I usually find inspiration for combat narration simply from what something [i]does[/i] on a successful attack output. I would imagine that [i]some[/i] disapointment in the combat rules can be assuaged over time with system mastery, etc. But there's always the legit possibility that the mechanics just don't jive with some people, and that has to be okay too. I hope it's the former, and not the latter for your EP game, Shredicine.

Wed, 2013-05-29 03:51

Madwand

I find that Eclipse Phase

I find that Eclipse Phase does not do D&D-style combat very well. This is not a criticism. D&D-style combat tends to have several assumptions: first, that combat will be relatively frequent, sometimes several times per session. Second, that fights will often be symmetrical, i.e. each side usually poses a significant threat to the other. Third, that advancement of the characters and storyline is very often achieved through combat. These are metagame assumptions: they don't often occur in real life. In a game, they're great for creating repeated, fun fights that advance the PCs power and stories. That's just the type of game D&D is. Eclipse Phase can also share some of these assumptions, but if it does, they are usually artificially created by the GM. Real fights are often asymmetrical and won brutally and swiftly, and this is often true in Eclipse Phase as well. There is often no "fair" fight unless the GM works really hard at making one. Character advancement does not require winning fights (though not losing them is important). Stories can be advanced and the enemy triumphed over without initiative ever being rolled. Thus, if a player is coming into an Eclipse Phase game expecting D&D-style combat, they are likely to be disappointed.

Fri, 2013-06-07 06:43

Baalbamoth Baalbamoth's picture

well... about gun fights...

at some point the game designer has to ask are we going for cinimatic or realistic. I'm glad the designers here chose realistic. if you draw a solid bead on somebody with an assualt rifle, the combat is uasually over as fast as you can pull the trigger. I studied some of this when looking into law enforcement... gunfights typically happen within 35 ft or less and are over in seconds, not minutes. Its a little different when watching iraq war footage where dug in squads are fireing back and forth at eachother till someobody fires the mounted full auto grenade launcher or calls in the air strike, in which case its over pretty quick. EP seems very simmilar to me, there might be some back and forth, but generally the guy who hits first, hits hardest is going to be the guy who wins the fight without the likelyness of the other guy shrugging it off, notching two hits off a character sheet, and gets his turn with hope a crit can end the fight in 30 minutes rather than two hours.

—

"what do I want? The usual — hundreds of grandchildren, complete dominion over the known worlds, and the pleasure of hearing that all my enemies have died in highly improbable accidents that cannot be connected to me."

Thu, 2014-01-23 14:51

Shredicine Shredicine's picture

Thanks

I just re-read this whole thread, and I want to thank you all for your responses. I feel a lot better about what happened with my old group. I hope to start a new one and get in some more EP gaming sessions! Cheers.

—

Who are we, but slaves to our own personal interests?

Thu, 2014-01-23 16:22

Aggrotron

As the GM of your old group I

As the GM of your old group I owe you a large apology. The game I was running was shit and imploded anyways. Really it's my fault you guys were going through a(n admittedly dumb) social game instead of something with a lot more bang.