Firstly, note that different Ultimate sub-factions and orders will be different. The skills they need to know to be effective where they are will be different, and their factional culture and philosophies will be different. I can fully believe there's a group that calls themselves Ultimates and Brinkers (however they may not be recognized by the other Ultimate groups). The ultimate goal of an Ultimate is to master every usable skill. It's like Heinlein said: "A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects." Differences in understandings of what is a useful skill, as well as differences in backgrounds and philosophies, will ultimately result in deep fractures between Ultimates. As a group, it's only barely held together. Competition for the eye of the faction leadership, and to determine foreign policy, etc., will give rise to political games between and within Ultimate orders. In a previous discussion, I drafted up the following on Ultimate governing styles: >I imagine the solution to this is a mix of social conventions, lots of space for personal advancement, a small meritocracy government operating under a constitution that strictly limits the government's powers, and loyalty treatments for low and mid-range ultimates. By establishing channels for advancement within the current infrastructure in non-destructive methods and lots of space for people to go out and establish their own organizations, ambitions are directed safely and cohesion is maintained. The government isn't trapped, so it can be reinvented in favor of new, superior forms or as the situation dictates, but is limited against overcoming the independence of individuals. Loyalty treatments (similar to Reynold's ultras) are a necessary infringement, with the expectations that more experienced ultimates will have the strength and wisdom to overcome them without becoming dangerous to group effectiveness. Ultimate philosophy is well-represented by Heinlein, Nietzsche, and Ultras (by Alaistar Reynolds). While it's easy to bunch Ultimates in with Samurai, I wouldn't do so. The Samurai culture was heavily grounded in honor, social protocol, and obedience. For an Ultimate those concepts are tools to be used or discarded, as appropriate. An Ultimate won't commit seppuku because his master died, and won't forego tanning his own leather as something "beneath" him. A samurai is fundamentally an extension of the ancient social order, and the will of his superior. An ultimate is a revolution against the old social order, and answerable only to his own will.

Baalbamoth wrote:

"Shambhala is ruled over by Lord Maitreya. The Kalachakra prophesies that when the world declines into war and greed, and all is lost, the 25th Kalki king will emerge from Shambhala with a huge army to vanquish "Dark Forces" and usher in a worldwide Golden Age. Using calculations from the Kalachakra Tantra, scholars such as Alex Berzin put this date at 2424 AD" um.... wow... was just kind of blown away by this, and could easily see a sort of Ultimate brinker cult forming around this idea. any comments about this or maybe your thoughts on Ultimate's philosophy would be great to hear.

Actually, I don't think it's a brinker group that has those plans. The Overhumanists are quite overt with their view that the rest of decadent humanity needs to be wiped from the system.

Gantolandon wrote:

They have always given me a strong samurai vibe. A rigid moral.codex centered on self-development and simple, virtuous life, combined with little to no compassion towards anyone weaker than themselves. A good Western example of a similar society would be ancient Sparta. A somewhat hilarious irony is that these kind of societies don't usually fare very well. They either calcify and grow stagnant like Edo period Japan, or are wiped out by more "decadent" societies who usually have more resources and manpower. It invalidates their ideology a bit.

Actually, I think the Ultimates are quite smart about how they handle their relations with other nations. The Ultimates stand as one of the biggest security players in the system, giving them the chance to dip their influence in a lot of pots. Furthermore, the Ultimates are not a cloistered xenophobic culture like Feudal Japan was... on the contrary, the organization takes on converts, much more like early Christianity. And we all know how successful that turned out to be. The Ultimates are first and foremost pragmatists. Whether they hold onto traditions and practices of ancient cultures is likely less about preserving history, and more about finding what works. I imagine that they subject the memes and philosophies of ancient cultures to the same sort of Darwinistic culling that they subject themselves to... keeping what works and discarding what doesn't. Personally, I think you can draw more parallels between the Ultimates and the Third Reich, than any other culture out there. Much like the Third Reich, they were big on cultural preservation, tried to make a big impact on the culture of the world (even before WWII started), and were social Darwinists. They even both had leaders that were charismatic enough to effectively achieve cult status. The biggest difference is that the Ultimates put an emphasis on physical and mental self-improvement rather than racial purity, and scapegoat the ills of the world on those who refuse to adapt and improve, rather than on other races, the handicapped, the gay, other religions, etc. And to be honest, that's probably its biggest advantage over Nazi Germany. The Nazis made themselves the enemy of every other race out there by making it an objective to eradicate them one way or another, while the Ultimates merely wage a war against weakness. And some of the Ultimates do not necessarily rely on violence in said war (such as the Iconists, who emphasize conversion over brutality). Both still radical in their views, but at least the Ultimates don't base their nationalistic ideology on blatant cultural discrimination.

You might also want to look at some of the sources for http://www.aleph.se/EclipsePhase/Thermopylae.pdf - this brinker culture can be seen as a bioconservative offshoot of the Ultimates or coming from the same memetic breeding ground (I wrote it long before Rimwards, hence the somewhat different past of the Ultimates). Ernst Jünger and Mishima make *great* sources for Ultimate ideas and quotes.