I think I know what it is. LawtPIAT is Hollywood educated. Assault rifles stop cars with a single shot to the engine. Everyone is optimized for their job, stone cold killers (addiction counts as effective because it gives you CPs). Logic is that stuff Spock does when he still says "Captain my projections give that a 3.91% chance of working" without at even dropping a significant digit after being wrong 100 times, haha he's so dumb he should trust his gut feeling more that's right WAY more often. Like with furries and gays, yuck.

CodeBreaker wrote:

So I am honestly curious. If you feel that morphs should only exist for a given purpose/tool use, can you explain to me the purpose of, say, the Octomorphs? Or the Neo-Avian? Because the only one I can see is 'acts as a vehicle for uplift play'. Which is exactly the role that the Bastet would be filling, only it would be 'acting as a vehicle for animal play'.

I think this thread went far off-topic and I'd like to apologize for contributing to the drift. That said, we were asked which morphs we like / dislike and why - I've answered that question, I don't like some of the models because I'm not into furry stuff, that is all. In my EP campaigns, I just don't offer my players some of the morphs introduced in Gatecrashing and Panopticon. They either don't exist or are so rare and exotic that the PCs rarely come into contact with them. Of course, I would use them as background elements to illustrate some of the more extreme scum swarms or other fringe groups - groups that design certain morphs because they can and not because those morphs would be especially useful. I like some uplifts - apes and dolphins are a cool little nod towards David Brin's Uplift novels. I also think that Octomorphs can be very useful with their eight appendages and bodies adapted for living in micro-gravity environments.

CodeBreaker wrote:

So I am honestly curious. If you feel that morphs should only exist for a given purpose/tool use, can you explain to me the purpose of, say, the Octomorphs? Or the Neo-Avian? Because the only one I can see is 'acts as a vehicle for uplift play'. Which is exactly the role that the Bastet would be filling, only it would be 'acting as a vehicle for animal play'.

First of all, I said "as tools [i]or the type of morph you were born with[/i]". Secondly, acting as a vehicle for uplift play, in a game where uplifts are integral to the setting is a lot better of a role than "acting as a vehicle for animal play" in a setting where sleeving into animals is not a major feature.

Smokeskin wrote:

Assault rifles stop cars with a single shot to the engine.

Oh crud, I totally forgot! I spent a few hours researching that, and it turns out you're right; It's somewhat difficult to destroy an engine block with normal small arms.

Smokeskin wrote:

I think I know what it is. LawtPIAT is Hollywood educated. [...] Everyone is optimized for their job, stone cold killers (addiction counts as effective because it gives you CPs). Logic is that stuff Spock does when he still says "Captain my projections give that a 3.91% chance of working" without at even dropping a significant digit after being wrong 100 times, haha he's so dumb he should trust his gut feeling more that's right WAY more often. Like with furries and gays, yuck.

This, however, I can't remember having said. You're going to have to remind me where I said those things. Especially the part about "gays, yuck", which seems rather at large with the fact I am a lesbian woman.

SummerHeart wrote:

Not the damn point and you know it. Your argument was that if you have to Equip a Morph with Augs, Gear,Weapons and Armor then it's unsuitable as a Combat Morph.

No. It was that if you have a to put a lot of gear on a morph to make it a combat morph, then it's the gear, not the morph, that makes it good for combat. Specifically, gear that wasn't there in the first place. Furies are combat morphs because they come with augmentations that make them good at combat; enhanced toughness, enhanced vision, build-in armour, enhanced strength and coordination and toxin filters for surviving NBC warfare. These are all things that make Furies good at combat beyond what other morphs are. The Bastet, meanwhile, has a completely average pack of Aptitude bonuses, Limber 2 and enhanced vision. It's barely ahead of the Exalt in terms of capabilities. Lots of morphs are ahead of the Exalt in terms of capabilities, but that doesn't really make them combat morphs.

SummerHeart wrote:

Enhanced Hearing, Enhanced Smell, Enhanced Vision right out of the box for one. Claws for another which make it useful close combat weapons. And add in some toxins. (Cat Scratch Fever...) Mnemonic Augmentation is another useful addition. Plus the Advantages it has aren't all that bad.

Again, it's an Exalt with a cyberbrain and an enhanced senses package. It doesn't, for example, have +10 SOM to fend of hecklers (like an Olympian or Fury would have), a frame made for holding and firing guns, or even the height and size to block incoming bullets. (In the real world, bodyguards are selected for size and height, after all). An Exalt would be better. It could block incoming attacks with it's body, at least.

SummerHeart wrote:

The proposed Morph reads as, "Bastets can manipulate objects with their paws, although not with extended claws."

Rats can manipulate objects with their paws, that doesn't mean they can hold and fire rat-sized guns. Paws are feet. That means they can't be used as hands unless they have, say, the Prehensile Feet augmentation. Which the Bastet doesn't have.

SummerHeart wrote:

You can easily modify a paw to operate as a rudimentary hand.

If you can do it easily, why do Neo-Homonids and Bouncers take penalties for walking that the Bastet doesn't?

SummerHeart wrote:

WolfPearl, a Finnish Furry Artist who created a fascinating WebComic. ( Called, Wurr) That is populated by intelligent canines whose paws can operate as a rudimentary hand. The link to the explanation in question with some example pics.

That's not proof, that's pictures drawn by an artist.

SummerHeart wrote:

And you prove to me that you can't in fact read. [...] and some imagination...Something I'm slowly beginning to think your incapable of. :/

Do you have some vested interest in verbally harassing me all the time?

atamajakki wrote:

There should be a new morph in the 40 CP specialist biomorph line that boosts INT. Something to join the Olympian/Menton/Sylph group.

I agree. I made my own using my own morph generation rules, but an official version would be nice. I was actually going to use my Ultimate Fabber morph suggestion on something similar to my Sherlock. (http://eclipsephase.com/sherlock-mycroft-and-zero for anyone curious)

LatwPIAT wrote:

If you put a gun on a table between a naked baseline Fury and a naked baseline Bastet, the Fury will be able to pick up the gun and shoot the Bastet dead - quite possibly before the Bastet has even managed to get an attack in.

A man vs. an intelligent tiger with a pistol at the midpoint between them? The tiger wins, every time. Even if the man did grab the gun, the next thing he knows the tiger's jaws are locked solidly around the hand. And even if he did manage to get the gun and get a few shots off, chances are he'll still lose. He'd have to be very lucky to hit something vital enough that the tiger will be incapacitated before it kills him. And that's assumining the tiger doesn't have the sort of paws that the bastet has.

The big problem is we don't know much about the Bastet and it's size. Depending on it's size it could just jump across the table and bite down on the Furies windpipe and hold on with it's claws till she stopped moving....Or maybe not. >.< Gameplay Rules sort of makes guessing this stuff hard without access to more information.

Hi all. Since the Stalker came up I noticed that the version I included in the draft has two important omissions: - The +10 SOM bonus is inclusive of both the Hardened Skeleton and Muscle Augmentation bonuses - Disadvantages should also include Weak Grip from Panopticon. Please keep sharing your thoughts and feedback, it's great to see. Now, off to add "responsible for those dumb effing murder cats" to my signature...

@atamajakki Nothing's official until the devs put it in print, but for the concept the length should be 6-7', including the tail, and approx. 3' high at the shoulder. As there has already been some strong reaction to the stalker - both positive and negative, and I take both seriously - I did want to let everyone know that the only reason it was included in the uplift section and not the previous morph round-up list was that due to Ridiculously Time Consuming Life Events (tm) I was less punctual than I usually am about getting some of the draft material in to Sprite and didn't have it in his hands when the previous list was posted. A serious and open question: would any of you react differently if there was no mention of any particular form factor and it was a pod of whatever appearance that had the same/similar stats?

My thoughts on the combat morphs that are already out there are that they are geared towards certain types of conflict: - Fenrir/Reaper - serious military confrontations, overwhelming force skirmish actions, fantastic platform for mid- to long-range firefights. - Fury - Elite universal soldier, above-average for any application and a morph you can wear every day - Ghost - Infiltration/Recon, you've probably f'd up the mission if you ever get into general combat The stalker is meant to fill the niche for close-up ops that have some target kills and/or ego retrievals. Stalkers aren't well-suited for any mid- or large-scale actions, but have a lot of punch for going toe to toe with small numbers of targets and work well in tight quarters. By not being dependent on exterior armaments it helps increase reliability of performance, but there's a distinct tradeoff in that it doesn't have the same flexibility of use as the other morphs. It's specialized, and could be great for an ego hunter or restricted-area security, but would be terrible for general military application. To call back to some of the earlier comments, it's a different tool for a different job.

Thantastic wrote:

A serious and open question: would any of you react differently if there was no mention of any particular form factor and it was a pod of whatever appearance that had the same/similar stats?

Appearance and Formfactor are not the same thing. Yes, I object to the appearance, I think the whole idea is just tired, but that's just my opinion. Appearance is not my gripe. Lets say you came up with an original idea that was creative on the order of, (or just exactly derivitave of), the hellhounds in chronicles of riddic. http://riddick.wikia.com/wiki/Hell_Hound I would think it was a more interesting look but still a dumb idea of a form factor for people who live [u]IN SPACE[/u]. I'll get to stats in a minute, cauz those are just off the friken chain, But only considering form factor: What is the value of a giant cat with rudimentary thumbs and vocal cords and a *Hard Point* form factor? How would it be advantageous over a bouncer or simian form form factor? There is no benefit. It can't use its thumbs and run or climb at the same time. It's most effective weapon has less reach than a sword or an ax (-10 modifier). There's no mention of where the hardpoint is mounted but I'm just betting most people would guess that its on the creature's back. So how does this thing mount/dismount or reload it's ranged weapon. If it's mounted on it's belly where it's paws might be able to work with it then it can't drop prone it's also in the way for climbing (which the creature is supposed to be really good at). The concept is allready so far into cartoon territory I think the hard point should be in it's mouth. At least that way it could still aim the weapon if it lost wireless connectivity to the turret. There's another thing I hadn't even noticed. Is it a hard point or a turret this thing is supposed to have? You're creating gear that doesn't exist. (which will have to be detailed in the book somewhere; Biomorph Hard Point.) Or you're contradicting the Core on p.310 that restricts that mod to synths and shells. If it's just a "hard point" how is the weapon deployed at all? Does the creature have to point it's body or one of it's limbs at the target? Or is it a mobile turret so the creature can run and climb and do all of those cat things while it shoots? Personally I vote for a turret so I can put on on my shark. Cauz we all know if there's one thing EP lacks it's; [b]Sharks with fucking Lazer Beams![/b] Where is this thing supposed to operate? It has serious deficits in micro gravity compared to base human form factor because it lacks joint articulation and has only rudimentary thumbs. (google nasa cats in space or search it on these forums.) For it to operate outside any pressurized environment you have to build it a special space suit. Same goes for giving it a survivable chance with armor, has to be built special. (And that assumes it's practical to build a mask or helmet that works with a feline mouth and head.) Then after you get it in it's armored space suit how do you mount a weapon on the hard point. So bascially this thing gets to work on mars venus luna or titan inside habitats. Does anyone really believe there's a market for that? Here's a thought; Maybe the reason no one bothered to uplift cats or dogs is because they only work well ON EARTH. I feel like this concept ignores most of the setting. This form factor is a Pain In The ASS. It solves no problems and creates many problems. Which is the same thing as saying it just shouldn't exist. Now the Stats; Whoa Nelly! By my count this thing comes out of the box with +40 in Aptitude bonuses and +80 in skill bonuses. I'm adding enhancement bonuses to listed advantages where some might overlap because those overlaps are not itemized in the stat block and I Rule Zero morphs based on whether Im going to have that argument with a player. You forgot also to mention that it has 4 limbs like the Reaper (which will create another stupid argument with a little furry munchkin.) For some reason a bite attack does damage equivalent to a Monofilament Sword or the reaper's cyber claws with pneumatic jacks. It has a weapon mount (of some type) which is verboten for pods or it is a new piece of gear. I'm inclined to think it's a new piece of gear because for some reason this thing can't mount beam weapons or spray weapons, and may not even be able to mount rail guns, Because those things are not "one handed *firearms*" ;) I really don't understand whence these skill bonuses come. Is it a really good climber because it has four feet? Shouldn't bouncers get the same bonus? Does it climb well because it has cyber claws? Those don't grant the same bonus to other characters Also claws don't tend to work well on indoors surfaces and this kitty probably isn't allowed to go outdoors much (space suit). Does it get an Unarmed bonus because it's main weapon is in the place you're most likely to target if you were trying to kill it, (the head) or just because everyone knows cat's are the best fighters evar? (sorry for being snarky, but combat skill bonuses in a morph are a bad idea. Hard to rationalize in the rules set and just smacks of too-kewl-for-school syndrome. There's nothing in this morph that would make it easier for an ego to use their unarmed combat skill unless that ego was a Feline in the first place.) And what about infiltration? Why does it get an infiltration bonus? It already has what ever flavor of stripped cammo it needs from the gear. Yes cat's are quiet in the jungle but so is anyone who is crouching and barefoot and there's no jungle for this cat to work in. There's no rational for this bonus that I can see. It's just more "munchturbatory" (TM) fantasy. I really enjoy the disadvantages, they make me smile every time I read them. The cracked plans released to the web still contain aggressive GRM. And my favorite part; Some one who sleeves this morph willingly will be stigmatized. Why? Not because it's a tiger with a weapon mount. Nope; it's because it's a pod morph. :D That bit of irony just fucking slays me. [b]Now the short answer.[/b] You can't separate the stat block from the described form factor in a *ROLE PLAYING GAME*. The description rationalizes the stats in a game of imagination. I would object to this concept less if it had some relation to, and reality in, the setting. But the stats would still have the problems I've mentioned above. I wouldn't object to this concept at all if it were not in the Uplifts Section. I wanted to go all apeshit over some of the other new morphs too. Many of them are just not justifiable in the setting other than; "some kooky fringe group likes living this way", which to me is NOT a good reason to waste space in a hard cover book. [b]If you're going to write a morph into the book it's [u]Primary Duty[/u] should be to say something important about the setting and the way people live and think and work.[/b] I feel like this, and some of the other morphs proposed, were just writers having a huge Geekgasm, if they make it into the book I'll be the one left holding the tissues. But fuqit, you guys should have some fun. It's your game.

I have not had a chance to try the new stuff in play yet but one new morph really caught my eye. I have a character Arturo Spagnetti and I now see there is a flying squid morph. That is SO going to be mine so I can at last be the flying spagnetti monster and touch opponents with my noodly appendages.