Welcome! These forums will be deactivated by the end of this year. The conversation continues in a new morph over on Discord! Please join us there for a more active conversation and the occasional opportunity to ask developers questions directly! Go to the PS+ Discord Server.

Morphs and Having Children

12 posts / 0 new
Last post
CodexofRome CodexofRome's picture
Morphs and Having Children
Despite the havoc and chaos of the setting, the natural business of human beings continues, the result being children. Which has led me some questions that have been driving me a bit crazy over the last few weeks. While I have my own ideas, I'm curious what the rest of the EP community thinks... What would you call the body you were born into? Is it just a morph, or would it get some special designation? So... two flats have a child, it would be a flat if it didn't undergo genefixing, right? Children born to a flat and a splicer would presumably be flats. Children born to two splicers would presumably be splicers, unless some new genetic anomaly arose. If you exchange your "birth morph" for something else, and then have a child, you would not be passing your original DNA on to your offspring. Would it be possible to genefix a flat after birth? Before birth?
Eclipse Phase Inspiration Akonus: Eclipse Phase Utilities
GregH GregH's picture
Re: Morphs and Having Children
Perhaps "origin morph" or "default morph"???
browwiw browwiw's picture
Re: Morphs and Having Children
Yeah, you're not the first person to notice this particular rub. We've had some pretty good discussions about it and there's a lot of valid thoughts. First off, there's probably several ways to produce new offspring in the EP 'verse, but the culture of any given hab or alliance probably limits those modalities depending on their values and mores. For example, in the Jovian Republic it's limited to man-on-top-get-it-over-with-quick classic sexual reproduction. Out in the Scum barges you may have communities sleeving nascent AGIs into infant splicer sleeves grown from community contributed DNA and gene sequences. And that's just the most normal thing I could think of. This is just me spitballing and theorizing, but I think the vast majority of people, regardless of their current sleeve, keep a digital copy of their original genome (if they are so lucky to have it) compressed within their consciousness backup. It's not that big of an assumption. If you have the capacity to store untold tens of petabytes of date (your personality), then you can spare a couple gigs for your personal DNA. This is preferably a genefixed (Splicer) version of your DNA. It's just good to have on file and you never know when you might get nostalgic for your original body. So, whenever you find a partner or romantic interest that you want to make a baby with, you both go down to your favorite boutique clone farm, provide your respective DNA files, and have the gene cruncher shuffles you up the genome for a new fetus and sets it to incubating. Then, when that baby grows up, they can keep their DNA on file for when they get resleeved and so on and so forth. So for making a baby the old fashioned way with a new sleeve, I figure that the hypercorps have a built in form of obsolescence for their morphs that can sexually reproduce. That is, their somatic sells will always be Fury or Olympian, or whatever but they only produce sperm or ova that have Splicer traits. That way, you don't get people running around mating Furies and Olympians to make super morphs. It also keeps their particular methods for making a biomorph meet the standards of their archtype a proprietary secret. Then there's the whole "let's merge our forks!" stuff you can do to make new personalities, but I'm trying to stay within the OP's questions concerning sexual reproduction,

"Let’s face it: Most of us are just here to shoot stormtroopers." - Gary M. Sarli

OneTrikPony OneTrikPony's picture
Re: Morphs and Having Children
This begs the question of what gene tweeking happens at what level. The Fury morph is a good example. Are the Fury behavioral modifications a specific selection for those traits in the standard human genome? If so is it a base genetic modification or an epi-genetic modification? Or, did they splice in some portion of the genome of an entirely different species to produce the desired result? If you did happen to mate a Fury and an Olympian would the offspring benefit from an increased SOM tendency above either of the parrents or would it simply be the product of two dominant allels and still have SOM +10? How much of the Gene tweeker's work is actually gene manipulation vs. good old selective breeding?

Mea Culpa: My mode of speech can make others feel uninvited to argue or participate. This is the EXACT opposite of what I intend when I post.

browwiw browwiw's picture
Re: Morphs and Having Children
Well, I got the genetic obsolescence through reproduction idea from real life. Genetically modified crop companies are not producing modified wheat that can produce seeds (something standard hybrid crops don't do), but the seeds revert to standard wheat without any modifications. So guess in super future sci-fi land you can do that with morphs.

"Let’s face it: Most of us are just here to shoot stormtroopers." - Gary M. Sarli

Sepherim Sepherim's picture
Re: Morphs and Having Children
I don't think people in the EP world would bother having children that share their original DNA. Afterall, they have probably lost that DNA long ago. I imagnie people would come to think of their bodies like "vehicles" to their minds, so what would matter for having children is the bond that is created between the minds of parents and children. Thus, adopted children would be seen the same as normally born children of the couple, since what matters would be the social bond instead of the genetic one. And I believe everyone would be born either a splicer or a flat. The other morphs have genetic modifications, as well as implants in them, and those are things that probably can't be transmitted from one generation to the next in a stable fashion.
Leaps-from-Shadows Leaps-from-Shadows's picture
Re: Morphs and Having Children
Two humanoid biomorphs do the nasty and have a baby. No matter which morph types they are, this would result in a Flat baby. The random combination of fixed genes wouldn't result in a gene-fixed baby. The main alternative would be similar to today's [i]in vitro[/i] fertilisation. The couple goes to a doctor, donates their genetic material, and the gene-fixing happens before the egg is implanted in the female. This results in a Splicer baby that looks like them. It might be possible to implant another morph type in the womb instead of using the couple's genetic material. In this case though, the baby wouldn't look like them (because the genetic material comes from an outside source), and depending on the morph type, might be more difficult to raise. It would also be more expensive for this procedure. In the EP universe, I don't think that people are all that concerned about continuing their genetic line. Those that are can have a Flat or a Splicer that looks like them (their current morphs anyway). Those that don't care can pay more to have a designer baby if they want. That's the way I see it, anyway...
Sepherim Sepherim's picture
Re: Morphs and Having Children
I think so too, but just thought that the Jovian Junta may be an exception to this. Being as they are so "traditional", they may still value things like "being the genetical parent of your child" and similair ideas. And as for the child being always born a flat, I believe that if both parents are splicers (or have genetically modified their genome to make it better), the child will probably be so too, because those genetics are transmitted to him/her. Thus, if none of his parents has any genetic disease in their genetic code, it is basically impossible for him to have any of those diseases due to genetic legacy (exception made for genetic mutations).
Iv Iv's picture
Re: Morphs and Having Children
browwiw wrote:
So for making a baby the old fashioned way with a new sleeve, I figure that the hypercorps have a built in form of obsolescence for their morphs that can sexually reproduce. That is, their somatic sells will always be Fury or Olympian, or whatever but they only produce sperm or ova that have Splicer traits.
But if that's a problem for you, I know this gene hacker on Locus... he'll make a skin culture from you and change it into sperm. Of course the DNA will still be watermarked and your child will bear proofs of your copyright infringement in its genotype but at least it will look like its moma.
browwiw wrote:
Well, I got the genetic obsolescence through reproduction idea from real life. Genetically modified crop companies are not producing modified wheat that can produce seeds (something standard hybrid crops don't do), but the seeds revert to standard wheat without any modifications.
Is that so ? I thought the GM crops were simply sterile. I never heard they could produce 'normal' seeds. I would be interesting in the details if you have more informations, the technique must not be trivial !
TBRMInsanity TBRMInsanity's picture
Re: Morphs and Having Children
I would argue any (and I intentionally use the Gattica names for this) "God born" child would be a flat (regardless of the parents) and splicers are the result of genetech before the child is even born. Gene fixing can occur before, during, or after birth, but it is more costly the longer you wait. With the exception of the Jovian Republic (and even then they still produce splicers at a common rate), the most common way to have kids is to go to your local geneticist, have the sperm and eggs removed from the two parents, the best DNA of both are combined together, and the parents select the "candidate" they want to have as their child. I think more exotic biomorphs (like furies) are almost never your "default" morph at birth, though I would argue that some of the cultural elite morphs may be.
Jovian Motto: Your mind is original. Preserve it. Your body is a temple. Maintain it. Immortality is an illusion. Forget it.
King Shere King Shere's picture
Re: Morphs and Having Children
Then there is the non biological children making. What about merging two diffrent individuals, Mates provide a Fork for the merge. Naturally some modifikations is needed to make them compatible. Or searches for compatable "mate". But the end result is to produce a offspring and a diffrent individual; while still having heritage. Certain SciFi (not naming examples due to spoiling) explore that concept.
ChristianCalvert116 ChristianCalvert116's picture
Re: Morphs and Having Children
just wanted to refer you over here. http://www.eclipsephase.com/family-matter