The existing state of ranged weapons in Eclipse Phase doesn't sit entirely well with me, and I'm not a hundred percent sure why. Perhaps it's because kinetic weapons are the king of ranged combat and RoF is the way to go, but regardless I feel that ranged weapons and they way they work are a little dodgy
As a result, I came up with my own firearms systems for my own games, which is presented here for you edification (or, more likely, to be torn apart ruthlessly!)
Rules changes
Burst Fire is +1d10 to damage as usual, full auto is +2d10 rather than the errated +3d10. Crits on combat attacks double AP, rather than ignoring armour, as I feel that with moxie it's far to easy to just casually blow away a battlesuit.
Kinetic Weapons
I wanted Kinetic weapons to have a damage output somewhat based on the caliber of the weapon, the power behind it and so on. It makes the future creation of weapons much easier once you have a baseline average laid out. I removed the FA firing option as standard for pistols because I feel that it allows you to create homebrew weapons that are FA, but those are somewhat unusual.
Number of d10 is the size of the charge behind the projectile. Flat bonus is the size of the projectile, AP is the quality of shape of the projectile. As such, Heavy pistols have a similar charge behind them to light and medium pistols, but fire a larger bullet, so they get a higher flat bonus. Projectile shape is mostly the same though, so Heavy Pistols aren't noticeable better at AP than mediums beyond doing more damage.
Light Pistol DV: 2d10+2 AP: -2 Firing Modes: SA/BF/- AMMO: 18
Medium Pistol DV: 2d10+4 AP: -4 Firing Modes: SA/BF/- AMMO: 15
Heavy Pistol: DV: 2d10+6 AP: -4 Firing Modes: SA/BF/- AMMO: 12
SMG: DV: 2d10+4 AP: -2 Firing Modes: SA/FA/BF AMMO: 30
Assault Rifle: DV 3d10+6 AP: -6 Firing Modes: SA/BF/FA AMMO: 40
Machine Gun: DV 3d10+8 AP: -6 Firing Modes -/BF/FA AMMO 60
Sniper Rifle: DV 4d10+8 AP -8 Firing Modes SA/-/-
As we can see, rather than before where rate of fire on pistols meant that one could do more damage with a FA heavy pistol than with a sniper rifle has now changed. A Sniper rifle does a shit ton of damage with it's one shot, and to approach that smaller weapons have to fire full auto, which you can only do once per action and with a lot higher ammo cost.
Rail Weapons are +2 damage additional -3 Pen as per usual.
Beam Weapons
Beam weapons really needed a boost, I thought. They are rarely if ever used, mostly because they don't fire FA so they tend to be crappy in comparison to Kinetic weapons. As such, I reduced the effect of RoF, and increased the power of beam in comparison. As before, number of d10 represents the direct energy of the attack, with the bonus (and in this case also AP representing the focusing of the beam).
This is retaining the errated beam weapon rules. So you can sweep for +10 to hit, fire a second time and home in for +10 to hit, or cook the target for 2x DV (but not AP). Nasty! Of course, there are downsides to beam weapons, such as the lack of specialized ammunition and weakness to environmental effects like smoke. For raw damage though, they can be great. Especially Plasma Rifles, the hardest hitting single shot non missile weapon in the game, as it should be!
Laser Pistol/Hand Laser DV: 2d10+2 AP: -2 Firing Modes: SA/-/- AMMO: 50
Agonizer (Roast Mode): DV: 2d10+4, AP: -2, Firing Modes: SS/-/- AMMO: 50
Laser Pulser: DV: 3d10+4 AP -2, Firing Modes: SA/-/- AMMO: 100
Plasma Rifle: DV: 4d10+12 AP -12 Firing Modes: SS/-/- AMMO:
Spray and Seeker weapons
No real change needed here. With the shifts to the autofire rules, shredders are balanced just fine and seekers are nice and deadly as they should be, but without the various firing options that other weapons types get.
So! These rules seem to balance out the weapon types more effectively making all of them interesting and viable weapon choices, rather than Kinetic Weapons being king of the hill. They're a bit generic by design, the idea being that these are the average stats, different products from different creators will vary depending on their specifications.
Anyway, opinions and criticism are welcome as always!
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Homebrew Ranged Weapon Rules
Sat, 2013-03-30 10:50
#1
Solar
Homebrew Ranged Weapon Rules
Sun, 2013-03-31 17:09
#2
Attic
Some additional thoughts
In general I like your approach and will try it out. Some things have also been nagging me and I changed some, especiallly seekers.
The decay in a nuclear battery never stops, and that energy has to go somewhere. So it is either loading a standard battery or comes out as thermal energy. As this lights you up to infrared sensors, I’m houseruled the option of having beam & rail weapons with removable nuclear batteries for [Trivial cost].
I think that kinetic weapons should have a nuclear battery also, as they electrically “cook” a fluid for expansion/propulsion; again with removal optional.
To add a little planning and reflect the different environmental conditions I go by this rough table (most Spray weapons are special cases). Basically, I try to have the initiative and choose where to fight.
(environment)-(Kinetic/Shard)---------(Rail)-(Beam)----------(Seeker)
(Vacuum)------(yes/dumb)------------(yes)-(yes)-------------(yes/dumb)
(Gas Atmo)----(smart/may be limited)-(yes)-(may be limited)--(smart/may be limited)
(Fluids)--------(limited)-----------------(no)--(very limited)-----(no)
Examples: Seekers and accushot-Kinetics require an atmosphere to steer against, in vacuum they just fly straight on. Seekers in atmosphere without oxygen cannot use their scramjet propulsion – they just fly dumb and with much reduced range.
I hope this works with your ideas.
Mon, 2013-04-01 08:38
#3
Solar
I think it works very well. I
I think it works very well. I like the idea of including many more environmental modifiers in the way that gear and in this case weapons work, thus meaning that weapon loadout becomes not just a case of personal choice but also selecting the best tool for the job.
I already include things like fighting in a confined space like a doorway, a stairwell or whatever levying a -10 penalty with rifle sized weapons and above, thus making pistols and SMGs more appealing. Things that also alter the nature of weapons like seekers not being able to steer properly in a vacuum are also very cool.
Thanks for the feedback. I'll have a run through the different weapon types and how various environmental effects could alter them with a bonus/penalty table later.
Mon, 2013-04-01 12:57
#4
Smokeskin
Here's a house rule I've made
Here's a house rule I've made to give smaller weapons a better role
Cumbersome Weapons Ratings
Weapons with a CWR applies this as a modifier to Initiative rolls, unless the weapon is properly braced (lying prone, weapon resting on a low wall or window frame, etc.). In confined spaces, like melee combat, firing from inside a small vehicle, or leaning out of a window, the GM can choose to apply the CWRx10 as a modifier to the attack.
SMG and smaller: 0 CWR
Automatic rifle sized: -2 CWR
Sniper rifle/machine gun sized and larger: -4 CWR
Combined arms: the lower CWR added at half value, minimum –1.
Extended magazine and suppressors: additional –1 CWR.
Wed, 2013-04-03 10:49
#5
Maskin
Attic wrote:
Good observation that smart ammo won't work in a vacuum, I didn't see that mentioned in the book, but reading about smart ammo again I can see that your reasoning makes perfect sense.
I don't understand why rail guns can't be fired in liquid same as kinetics (with reduced range of course). Do you have any specifics or explanations for "limited", "very limited" and "may be limited" - so what gases might affect beams and how much is the range reduced, etc.
Are you saying "no" to seekers in fluids because they would fly wildly off target?
—
Transhuman Mind
Sat, 2013-04-06 14:13
#6
Attic
After a few days without
After a few days without internet, thanks. "Seekers in Vacuum" allowed me to ween an overdedicated user from his toy :)
Unfortunately as of yet there is really no more detail than this table. I always had it sort of in mind but only wrote it down after reading Solar's post.
My, uh, gut feeling says that it might be hard to shield the rails in railguns, and that the intense electrical fields might "electrocute" an immersed user. The same goes for seekers, as their first stage is also rail driven.
- most likely a stream of plasma would heat the fluid in front of the weapon and not go far, so its use is "very limited"
- shards, having little weight would loose their kinetic energy after short range in liquids, "limited"
- high pressure atmo offers more resistance and crosswinds effects for all projectiles
One of the last chapters in Gatecrashing deals with designing exoworlds. Reading this, I started to think of the effects on PC gear and went from there.
Sat, 2013-04-06 15:07
#7
Maskin
*nods head while reading
*nods head while reading Attic's list of reasons*
I find that what always makes a game setting interesting, and especially in an intelligent sci-fi setting like EP, is considering the wider and often unexpected consequences of future tech and life in space. I have no idea how plausible the "electroctue" idea is for railguns and I would think they could probably water-proof it if they needed to, but it is a decent explanation and I don't think it will come up that often as most conflicts are likely to be in atmosphere (habitat), in vacuum or the thin atmosphere on Mars - at least until they start Gatecrashing. Then again, I really feel like setting up a campaign where a gate leads to all factions scrambling to settle Blue Planet, which is a wonderfully researched exo-waterworld!
As for the OP I agree about removing FA from handguns, I wasn't happy about that mode, and I generally like the changes (although I've decided to keep beam weapons less lethal than kinetics, but with adjustments as explained below).
The cumbersome weapon ratings are also good, but how I prefer to do it is that to get the range as listed you need to have larger weapons braced (mounted in the case of a machine gun) and use the scope in the case of the sniper rifle. Otherwise I slash the ranges to that of a submachine gun and slap an additional penalty on for sniper rifles and machine guns. I've also reduced the short and medium ranges for most weapons, except a few like handguns and snipers (assuming scope is used).
I also increased the rounds consumed for a burst to 4 and FA to 6 + 1D6 to make spraying around consume ammo faster. I haven't tested this, but feels right to me.
Finally, I have tentatively changed recoiless kinetics to be low-recoil. So they take a penalty on susequent shots in the same round when firing in bursts or FA. Just such an elegant way to give beam weapons a bit more of an advantage without having to make them more deadly.
—
Transhuman Mind
Fri, 2013-04-12 17:11
#8
Solar
It's hard to think of a good
It's hard to think of a good weapon system for underwater use in EP. Kinetic weapons are going to lose energy as they push through the water, thermal based weapons are going to be really nerfed and cause serious visibility issues as well as potentially other issues (fire a plasma rifle underwater without the right protection and you'll boil yourself). Lasers will be affected by water quite seriously as well.
I think the best weapon for underwater use is something like a seeker, self-propelled and adapted for aquatic operations. Regardless, these kind of extreme environments require more on the fly use. For standard environments we are looking at things like weapon size and
Using a large weapon in a close environment (stairwell, doorway, tunnel etc), -10 to attack rolls, additional -10 when firing at an additional target. This represents the difficulty of targeting and moving your weapon in such spaces. (From the above, all Pistols including Laser Pistols, Agonizers and Shard Throwers are Small, SMGs, Shredders and Sprayers are Medium, Assault Rifles, Sniper Rifles, Machine Guns, Plasma Rifles, PBBs, Pulsers and Seekers are all Large)
Firing a laser weapon in a smokey or dusty area, double range modifiers for accuracy as the beam becomes more and more split. Alternatively, a flat -10 for some atmospheric disruption, -20 for further disruption. Or do we prefer this as a damage penalty? In that case it might be a case of -5 or -10 damage. I actually prefer d10s in this situation though, as I like random damage elements.
Similarly, the bonuses to damage from success levels should change. I personally use 1d10 for +30 and 2d10 for +60, meaning that accuracy and modifiers/penalties are very important. I'm also liberal with the penalties so getting a chance at that +60 success rate is pretty damn hard.
Additionally. Crits don't ignore armour but rather double AP. Otherwise you just shoot someone in a battlesuit and spend a moxie point to turn them into mist, which seems too easy for randoms to kill dedicated soldiers for me. Eclipse Phase is a harsher setting than that, in my mind. Getting critted is still nasty though, and gets nastier depending on the weapon, as it should.
Sat, 2013-04-13 09:38
#9
Smokeskin
For underwater use, firearms
For underwater use, firearms should be loaded with supercavitation rounds.
Thu, 2013-05-23 04:44
#10
Armoured
Underwater and space
Underwater, the best weapons would probably be supercavitating bullets and seekers, fired from modified weapons. Currently, real underwater guns use supercavitating darts, very thin but heavy enough to maintain inertia through water. These would probably best be modelled in-game as a new ammunition type, with no damage change, reduced range, and with penalties doubled out-of-water.
Specialized seekers would effectively be mini-torpedoes, with their own rocket propulsion. probably easiest to bump up the price of current seeker rounds a bit for these.
In a similar vein, I don't see why you couldn't get self-propelled vacuum seekers. Sure, they wouldn't hit harder than a railgun or plasma rifle, but they wouldn't be limited to line-of-sight.