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What are exoskeletons?

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Mon, 2013-03-04 22:55
#1
DivineWrath DivineWrath's picture
What are exoskeletons?
I'm a bit confused about exoskeletons right at the moment. I'm sure I would be able to get my head around this on my own, but right now I would rather ask for help. There are a number of issues bugging me at the moment. First there is the problem as to what is an exoskeleton. I know it is a type of robot, but I've seen many variations of it in science fiction. Some have different names like exosuits or powered armor. Some are like suits of armor, only with robotic parts to make yourself stronger and faster. Others seem to be very large robots with any movement from the pilot being nothing more than commands. Some seem to be nothing more than a minimal framework needed wrapped around your body to help you to move stuff. Then there is the greater combat speeds like walking/running, while not too weird, but it also lists a vehicle speed as well. Then there is the non-human forms of movement like the trike or transporter. How do they count as exoskeletons? Wouldn't the trike be more of a futuristic motorcycle than an exoskeleton, or do you "ride" standing up? Also its confusing looking at some of these. While all of them have been put in the vehicle section, many of them look like they could have been placed in the armor section or vacsuit section without looking out of place. Take a look at the hardsuit and you'll find it has servo assist motors, which sounds similar to what is used in exoskeletons, but the hardsuit is not listed in the exoskeleton section. There are probably some questions I don't even know to ask yet. Could you guys help me make sense of this? I would like to be able to make my own designs without looking like a fool that didn't read the core rulebook.
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Tue, 2013-03-05 00:45
OneTrikPony OneTrikPony's picture
The answer is; Yes.
The answer is; Yes. The question is kind of like asking; how many wheels and doors does an automobile have? An exoskeleton is any device that assists a transhuman morph in it's natural form of movment--generally, but not always, by making that morph stronger. Typically, as the name implies, the exoskeleton will copy or closely follow the skeletal structure of the morph it is intended to fit. Here's the Key Point; While being "Worn" by a morph, an exoskeleton requires no special skill to use because it has haptic sensors that automatically follow and amplify the natural movements of the morph. There are some exceptions: exo skeletons with a vehicular mode of locomotion, such as the trike or the transporter, may require a vehicle skill. Takeing the trike as an example; it is similar to a motor cycle, it has wheels and requires a ground vehicle skill to 'drive' around. It's different than a motorcycle in that it provides an exoskeleton enhancement for the upper body of a humanoid morph. Because Exo's have a built in AI, (like every other piece of gear in EP), an exo is also a robot. And because exo's are mesh enabled, (like every other piece of gear in EP), an exo can also be piloted remotely. In those cases weather "Jamming" the exo or just remotely controlling it one needs to use the appropriate Piloting skill. (although there is a question of weather jamming an exo requires pilot skill or not.) In closing. Exo's like automobiles vary widely in purpose and function but, like automobiles, they all have similar modes of operation. hope that clears some things up for you. :)
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Mea Culpa: My mode of speech can make others feel uninvited to argue or participate. This is the EXACT opposite of what I intend when I post.

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Tue, 2013-03-05 09:42
GreyBrother GreyBrother's picture
I for my part played them
I for my part played them like a level of armor with its own DUR. The Wound Treshold can be used to inflict proper damage on the morph. This is offset by it being big. Way big. A splicer in a battlesuit can hardly maneuver in an elevator shaft. They basically have the same advantages and disadvantages as a tank that can walk.
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Tue, 2013-03-05 20:31
DivineWrath DivineWrath's picture
Perhaps I should try to clear
Perhaps I should try to clear some things up. Size is one of my big concerns. The descriptions are sufficiently vague that a mobile suit (from the Gundam anime series) or the space marine armor (from the starcraft computer games) seem to be equally qualified to be the exoskeleton used in Eclipse Phase. That can't be right (they are very different sizes, therefore different stats) hence my confusion and why I am asking. I can't find anything that mentions how big these things are. A few pictures showing the exoskeletons and where the pilot fits in them would have been quite helpful. I think that many of my problems would be solved or more easily solved had I had a proper sense of size of these things. One of the stories I'm working on involves a guy who has combined a hard suit (for survival convenience) with an exoskeleton (for power and mobility) to use as his gate crashing outfit. I'm trying to figure out if the 2 suits are the same kind of beast, or very different kinds of creatures. Having both be the same size has different considerations than if they were very different sizes. Don't get me wrong, I have a thing for big damn robots, but I'm more interested in how big these exoskeletons are. If these aren't big damn robots, I'll worry about making some up for my games later. If there is a shortage of human sized exoskeletons, then I'll make a few up as well. I just don't know what I need to work on.
GreyBrother wrote:
I for my part played them like a level of armor with its own DUR. The Wound Treshold can be used to inflict proper damage on the morph.
????. I didn't quite understand that. Are you ruling that to harm the morph stored within, you need to deal enough damage to cause the exoskeleton at least 1 wound?
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Tue, 2013-03-05 22:05
OneTrikPony OneTrikPony's picture
exoskeletons are no larger
exoskeletons are no larger than small cars or small equipment like skid loaders fork lifts or mini-excavators. (think of the loader from the second Alien movie that Rippley uses to fight the mother alien.) Most exoskeletons are much smaller; barely larger than the morph that they are designed to assist (like IronMan). Some are actually smaller than the morph. And most have an open strap-on design rather than full enclosure. the limiting factor of an exoskeleton is the size of the morph. knees, Hips, waist , shoulders elbows have to match the morph that's wearing it. The smallest full exoskeleton is the exowalker which probably looks very much like a skeleton that is strapped on over clothes, The largest is the hyperdense exo at "roughly twice human size" (again think of Rippley's loader). As a rule of thumb, unless size is explicitly stated--as in the case of the hyperdense exoskeleton--assume that the exo is basically the same size as the morph wearing it; pretty much like IronMan. Unless the armor value is very high (12+) or the exo offers some sort of sealed environmental protection assume it is an open design. Don't worry about vehicle rules when dealing with worn exo's. they add their listed amount of armor to the character's armor total. Some people will argue but there's nothing explicit in the rules to support arguments otherwize. (Heh. Bet I just opened a can of worms with that statement.) :)
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Mea Culpa: My mode of speech can make others feel uninvited to argue or participate. This is the EXACT opposite of what I intend when I post.

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Wed, 2013-03-06 05:33
anth anth's picture
DivineWrath wrote:One of the
DivineWrath wrote:
One of the stories I'm working on involves a guy who has combined a hard suit (for survival convenience) with an exoskeleton (for power and mobility) to use as his gate crashing outfit.
Another combination you might want to consider is the Battlesuit has the same life support capabilities as a Standard Vacsuit. Add the Life Support Pack from Gatecrashing and life support is similar to a Hardsuit. I think of the Battlesuit and Exowalker as being roughly human sized, with the former being like a suit of plate armour. I can't see a problem with wearing one of those, or a Hardsuit, while being a passenger in a vehicle meant for transhumans.
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Wed, 2013-03-06 05:58
GreyBrother GreyBrother's picture
DivineWrath wrote:Are you
DivineWrath wrote:
Are you ruling that to harm the morph stored within, you need to deal enough damage to cause the exoskeleton at least 1 wound?
Yes. But reading OneTrikPonys post, i reconsider it. Ironman is much more awesome than Terminator Armour.
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Thu, 2013-03-07 21:25
NewtonPulsifer NewtonPulsifer's picture
I'm one that uses the vehicle
I'm one that uses the vehicle rules for exoskeletons. So the battlesuit would provide a -30 cover bonus/penalty to the wearer in that interpretation.
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"I fear all we have done is to awaken a sleeping giant and fill him with a terrible resolve."- Isoroku Yamamoto
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Thu, 2013-03-07 22:46
OneTrikPony OneTrikPony's picture
yer not the only one, Newton;
yer not the only one, Newton; just sayin, my comment above wasn't directed at anyone. I don't see anything wrong with playing it that way, just don't see any benefit that makes it worth thinking about, expecially for the uninitiated.
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Mea Culpa: My mode of speech can make others feel uninvited to argue or participate. This is the EXACT opposite of what I intend when I post.

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Fri, 2013-03-08 01:13
NewtonPulsifer NewtonPulsifer's picture
OneTrikPony wrote:yer not the
OneTrikPony wrote:
yer not the only one, Newton; just sayin, my comment above wasn't directed at anyone. I don't see anything wrong with playing it that way, just don't see any benefit that makes it worth thinking about, expecially for the uninitiated.
It allows me to replicate the end scene from District 9. Your way doesn't :)
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"I fear all we have done is to awaken a sleeping giant and fill him with a terrible resolve."- Isoroku Yamamoto
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Sun, 2013-03-10 15:10
OneTrikPony OneTrikPony's picture
... I remember liking that
... I remember liking that movie but not much else. Please correct me if I'm wrong but there was a big Mecha battle between someone and someone else in an anthroform mech that was about 12 feet tall, and I seem to remember it was something the "Pilot" sat in rather than wearing it like a suit of armor. On the first hand I think you make a good point. Large mecha do exist in EP there's a blurb about mecha games on some icy world in the outer system in the core book. So Gundam/Avatar/Macross/possibly District 9, vehicle class mecha do require vehicle rules. On the otherhand; large piloted mecha violate the sensibility of the setting in the presence of; digital consiousness, and "unlimited communications bandwidth with unbreakable post quantum encryption" * ;) There just aren't many good reasons to put a squishy in a heavily armored giant robot, cool factor not withstanding. And on the other other hand; I like to make a distinction in the operation of a piece of gear that can clearly be described as being worn and one that can easily be describe as being piloted. Just personal preference. *Haha, for the purposes of my argument in this thread I have been convinced and accept all of those premises as discussed in other threads :D caus I'm kindof a dick that way
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Mea Culpa: My mode of speech can make others feel uninvited to argue or participate. This is the EXACT opposite of what I intend when I post.

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Sun, 2013-03-10 16:28
NewtonPulsifer NewtonPulsifer's picture
Exoskeletons can be remotely
[i]Exoskeletons can be remotely jammed. They do not need to be worn to work. They're capable of being fully independant.[/i] An exoskeleton in EP can walk around by itself and shoot a rifle. It doesn't *have* to have a pilot inside. Buy an exoskeleton and use it as your character's shell if you wish. So from the exoskeleton's point of view you're not simply "wearing" a battlesuit. It's an automobile (in the most essential meaning of the term - self moving) that can have some of its capabilities synergistically enhanced by having a pilot.
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"I fear all we have done is to awaken a sleeping giant and fill him with a terrible resolve."- Isoroku Yamamoto
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Tue, 2013-03-12 01:24
DivineWrath DivineWrath's picture
Well, it seems that to my
Well, it seems that to my question of "What is an exoskeleton?", a robotic suit of armor seems to have the popular vote. I can work with that. ---- Anyways, I've tried looking looking into when to use the pilot skill, but I can't find any good information on it. I'm not confused with matters with exoskeletons; I mean the pilot skill in all its forms. When driving a car for instance, no mater if you are driving it personally or what have you, do you make a test every automatic action (I think that would be ridiculous), every quick action (also ridiculous), every complex action, or what? Are there any guidelines I could follow? ---- Anyways, on to the topic of big damn robots. I'm not sure if I should handle the discussion here, make a new forum thread to handle that, or think about it a little bit and post about it later. Maybe I'll post my current thoughts and see where things go from here. Since space craft deal larger amounts of damage than conventional weaponry, I think that maybe big robots should be able to deal larger amounts of damage as well. I'm thinking that they can carry bigger guns, so greater firepower would be justified. Heck, getting punched by a large robot ought be a painful experience (and possibly the last thing you experience before being resleeved). Its stated that small ships have a DV mod of x3, medium DV mod of x5, and large has a DV mod of x10. If DV is being increased, then should DUR also be increased as well? Maybe by the same amount as the DV modifier? However, I have no real basis of determining the price of such things. Space craft don't have prices according to the rules, so I can't really try to match them. Making up numbers on the top of my head, maybe a "smaller" big robot would have a price category modifier of +1, a medium +3, and a large +6. I'm thinking this would be more of a problem of material costs and finding a fabber big enough to make the robots (or find someone who put smaller pieces together) than anything else. Should speed be something to be considered as well? I've read somewhere on these forums that larger creatures have an edge in terms of speed that smaller creatures (or things) generally don't. If I recall correctly, it was described that it made sense for an exsurgent nanoswarm to merge together to form bigger creatures so it could get a speed advantage to catch transhuman prey.
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Thu, 2013-03-14 00:04
jhfurnish jhfurnish's picture
My wife and I just watched a short presentation...
...on Netflix streaming about exoskeletons. I'm sure you can find it with a bit of looking around. It's quite informative. Everything from massive Japanese industrial constructs to hobbyist harnesses that can lift almost 500 lbs.
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Sun, 2013-03-24 15:50
Solar Solar's picture
I've been running Battlesuits
I've been running Battlesuits as basically suits of advanced armour. The rules for them that I have come up with are quite specific to Battlesuits but they also allow you to make Battlesuit combat a little more complex than regular armoured combat, which I like. Basically, Battlesuits are a suit of armour, and can take armour mods as we know (that includes a helmet, which means a Battlesuit has an armour of 21/21 base at that point!). You get shot in a Battlesuit, you reduce the damage by your armour modified by AP etc. The damage that gets through the Armour is then applied to the morph inside (which may indeed also have armour, second skin, bioweave etc). However, it is also applied to the Suit. So, if someone does enough damage to my battlesuit to get through with 13 damage, then that 13 damage gets applied to the guy inside, who may subtract lets say 6 and take 7 damage himself. Not to bad. The Battlesuit, with it's durability of 60 and WT of 12 also takes 13 damage, enough to cause a wound. As a result, the guy inside takes -10 to actions using the battlesuit, as the systems are damaged. If the Battlesuit gets to zero durability, it goes offline and you still get the armour but can't do anything in it. If it takes twice durability, then you're suit is destroyed, but by that point anyone inside is probably a sloshy bag of perforated organs. If the battlesuit takes two wounds at once, it takes a base durability test, if it fails then it goes offline, as before you still get the armour but the suit fails. So Battlesuits are between vehicles and armour, they have their own damage track, but directly provide armour for the wearer. They are also pretty useless while crits ignore armour, just like most armour is, but I house rule that so that crits instead double the weapons AP. Still nasty, but in games where characters are regularly engaging in battlesuit combat, it makes more sense (for me).
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