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binary stars

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Prophet710 Prophet710's picture
binary stars
What would a system, with a livable planet within it, be like with two stars? I understand that it probably would not be daylight all the time, but, what kind of ecological/geological ramifications would there be with two suns on said planet?
"And yet, across the gulf of space, minds immeasurably superior to ours regarded this Earth with envious eyes. And slowly, and surely, they drew their plans against us."
revengespc revengespc's picture
It depends.
I'm sure some of the real physicists around here could give a much better answer, but as far as I remember, it depends on the kind of binary system you have. You won't have something like Tatooine, where they "count as" one sun, and they're right next to each other - for there to be a stable orbit, there's usually some distance between the two stars, or else the system is too unstable for any life. Any habitable planet would have to orbit one or the other star - otherwise the yearly temperature fluctuations would be too much for any ecosystem to handle. Battlestar Galactica's Cyrannus system is actually a binary system in the modern series. They released a great map of it for Caprica. The two stars orbit a common barycenter between them, and the 13 Colonies are split between the two. There's enough distance between them that each planet effectively has only one "sun," and the other star is just especially bright - about as bright as our sun as seen from Pluto. In real life, there have been theories put forth concerning habitable zones around the binary stars of Alpha Centauri. Again, the two stars are far enough apart that that the other star wouldn't have a massive effect on life on any habitable planet. In a nutshell - as far as I know, life on a habitable planet in a binary star system wouldn't find itself in that different an environment from our planet. The real difficulty lies in forming a habitable planet in the first place. If you wanted to have real fun, I think it'd be possible for a planet with a highly elliptical orbit to switch off between the two stars, in an elongated "figure-eight" orbit. It wouldn't be terrestrially habitable, but it'd be awesome.
NewtonPulsifer NewtonPulsifer's picture
A figure 8 isn't stable
A figure 8 isn't stable unless all 3 bodies are close in mass. You can absolutely have a figure 8 orbiting planet but not on "long term" time scales (the orbit could last several million years or less maybe).
"I fear all we have done is to awaken a sleeping giant and fill him with a terrible resolve."- Isoroku Yamamoto
Prophet710 Prophet710's picture
Distance
If there were enough distance between suns, could a figure 8 be something of a celestial event that happens only every few hundred/thousand years and not fry all life on the planet then? If it takes 365 days for our Earth to revolve around our sun, say it takes twice or two-and-a half times that amount to circle both suns, with a good half month, to a month tops where the world is just baked by both?
"And yet, across the gulf of space, minds immeasurably superior to ours regarded this Earth with envious eyes. And slowly, and surely, they drew their plans against us."
NewtonPulsifer NewtonPulsifer's picture
I suppose you could have two
I suppose you could have two planets in a horseshoe type orbit. Except the one side of each orbit ends up around one star, the other around the other. A modification of this: [Img]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/f/ff/Epimetheus-Janus_Orbit.png... So two stars and then two planets sharing parts of the same figure 8 orbit.
"I fear all we have done is to awaken a sleeping giant and fill him with a terrible resolve."- Isoroku Yamamoto
Arenamontanus Arenamontanus's picture
The most common kinds of
The most common kinds of orbits in binary systems will be either going around one star, with the other one far away ("satellite type"), or going around both stars (which are close together), ("planet type"). There is also "libration type", where the planet is in a Lagrange point of the stars (60 degrees ahead or behind); these are likely uncommon since the orbit is unstable to perturbations over long time. Typical star orbits are many AU wide (from a few to hundreds), with eccentricities varying a lot. As a rule of thumb (good enough for RPGs at least), the planet needs to be three times closer to the one star it orbits than the closest distance of the stars, or more than three times their farthest distance when orbiting both. Otherwise the orbit will shift to some other orbit or be thrown out. (See also http://arxiv.org/abs/astro-ph/0701266v1 if you want some recent work) On satellite type planets most energy would be coming from the star it orbits, while the other star would mostly be highly visible in the sky rather than contribute much heat or light. If it was at its closest it would probably be just one ninth as bright as the primary sun - enough to matter a bit, and far brighter than the moon is on Terra. At its furthest it could be merely another star in the sky. This brightness would change slowly over its orbit, typically over a span of a few years to a century. Over a year it would move like an outer planet does in our sky, changing constellation. If it was in conjunction with the sun (both in same constellation) the day would be a bit brighter and nights normally dark. As it drifts away there will be a period of extended dawn or twilight where the secondary provides the light, culminating in opposition (half a year after conjunction) when it will be rising at twilight and setting at dawn, providing a bright night. If the colors are different this might produce fun effects: a blue-white outer star might create "white nights" and be visible even during the day, while a reddish outer star might make nights red and add purple to the day. Planet type, where the planet orbits both stars, requires the planet to be far away and the stars close. This typically happens if they are fairly bright (F spectral class and up) since the life zone needs to be big. This case looks fairly similar to Earth at first, except that objects cast two close shadows. Seasons and climate are likely fairly normal, with some changes if one of the stars has a notably different luminosity (say a bright F star with a dimmer red giant partner: then for part of the year there might be a reddish "eclipse" period) A special and likely rare (but fun) case is when the planet orbits a dim star that orbits within the life zone of a brighter star. This is essentially the same thing as being a moon of a gas giant in the habitable zone. Depending on how wide the orbit is the amount of heating will oscillate across the "short year". If the short year is like the Galilean moons of Jupiter it will last about a week, but it could conceivably be up to a month. Such planets are likely to be tidally locked, so one side is always pointed at the local dim sun and the other faces away. If the dim sun is somewhat bright this means the inner side will be pretty hot, bathed in eternal sunlight and for half of the short year the even stronger sunlight from the bright sun. Meanwhile the outer side will go half of the short year without any sunlight at all and then get half a short year of sunlight: such worlds will likely have big seasonal weather changes. Multiple star systems are fairly similar to binary star systems: orbits are stable if they are close to a star or far away from a group that their internal dynamics is negligible (technically, their multipole moments need to be small). Fun Janus-like orbits are of course possible, but I suspect they are not exceedingly stable: if a planet has been around long enough to get a biosphere, it probably has a very stable orbit.
Extropian
NewtonPulsifer NewtonPulsifer's picture
Horseshoe orbits can be
Horseshoe orbits can be stable if the two planets are equal-mass. http://iopscience.iop.org/1538-3881/124/1/592/fulltext/202074.text.html Ratios larger than 1200 are potentially stable too: http://arxiv.org/abs/1206.1888
"I fear all we have done is to awaken a sleeping giant and fill him with a terrible resolve."- Isoroku Yamamoto
Arenamontanus Arenamontanus's picture
NewtonPulsifer wrote
NewtonPulsifer wrote:
Horseshoe orbits can be stable if the two planets are equal-mass.
Interesting papers. Note that both however deals with planets rather than binary stars: these are possible weird exoplanet pairs orbiting single primaries. It is amusing that something as simple as Newtonian gravity allows so many weird orbits. And that many show up for real in the solar system.
Extropian
NewtonPulsifer NewtonPulsifer's picture
Right - this was more to
Right - this was more to address the possibility of a figure 8 orbit of a planet around two stars. Which basically wouldn't work out. However if two same sized mass planets both had very close orbits to each other and that were also very close to the barycenter between the two stars, they could exchange orbits. So they could both do a figure 8 orbit. However, they need each of their mutual gravities to pull each other into the gravity well of the other star. A very rare configuration I'm sure, but potentially feasible.
"I fear all we have done is to awaken a sleeping giant and fill him with a terrible resolve."- Isoroku Yamamoto
Arenamontanus Arenamontanus's picture
You can get some amazingly
You can get some amazingly fun orbits in theory: http://www.scholarpedia.org/article/N-body_choreographies but in practice they won't be stable. Unless ETI intervenes.
Extropian
Prophet710 Prophet710's picture
When you say unstable. How
When you say unstable. How long would it take the orbits to eventually decay? Are we talking a handful of years or on a geological/cosmological timetable; millions of years?
"And yet, across the gulf of space, minds immeasurably superior to ours regarded this Earth with envious eyes. And slowly, and surely, they drew their plans against us."
Arenamontanus Arenamontanus's picture
Prophet710 wrote:When you say
Prophet710 wrote:
When you say unstable. How long would it take the orbits to eventually decay? Are we talking a handful of years or on a geological/cosmological timetable; millions of years?
Handful of years, if not even months. These are pretty extreme solutions, precariously balanced on mathematical symmetries (that is how they were found). The figure 8 case is actually "stable" in a very technical sense: there exist similar, but slightly perturbed orbits if the perturbations are in the plane and have zero angular momentum. Unfortunately this is practically useless. As the page describes: "Are there any figure eight orbits in the universe? Douglas Heggie, 2000 together with Piotr Hut performed numerical experiments by throwing binary pairs, all masses equal, at each other and seeing how often figure eight solutions formed. On the basis of these numerical experiments and other considerations, they estimate the number of figure eight orbits in the observable universe lies in the range of 1 to 100. One does not expect to see any of the other choreographies due to their dynamical instability. Thus choreographies are of extremely limited interest in astronomy." So if you find a figure 8 system, you are in a *really* special place. A suspiciously special place.
Extropian
Prophet710 Prophet710's picture
...a *really* special place
I like it.
"And yet, across the gulf of space, minds immeasurably superior to ours regarded this Earth with envious eyes. And slowly, and surely, they drew their plans against us."
The Doctor The Doctor's picture
Arenamontanus wrote:So if you
Arenamontanus wrote:
So if you find a figure 8 system, you are in a *really* special place. A suspiciously special place.
This makes me want to mess with my players. If they go gatecrashing, they would wind up in such a figure-8 system, with suspicious $foo.. but no ETI or other deliberate influence in any way. A true cosmological black swan. That might make a good name for the campaign - Black Swan.
NewtonPulsifer NewtonPulsifer's picture
Arenamontanus wrote
Arenamontanus wrote:
Prophet710 wrote:
When you say unstable. How long would it take the orbits to eventually decay? Are we talking a handful of years or on a geological/cosmological timetable; millions of years?
Handful of years, if not even months. These are pretty extreme solutions, precariously balanced on mathematical symmetries (that is how they were found). The figure 8 case is actually "stable" in a very technical sense: there exist similar, but slightly perturbed orbits if the perturbations are in the plane and have zero angular momentum. Unfortunately this is practically useless. As the page describes: "Are there any figure eight orbits in the universe? Douglas Heggie, 2000 together with Piotr Hut performed numerical experiments by throwing binary pairs, all masses equal, at each other and seeing how often figure eight solutions formed. On the basis of these numerical experiments and other considerations, they estimate the number of figure eight orbits in the observable universe lies in the range of 1 to 100. One does not expect to see any of the other choreographies due to their dynamical instability. Thus choreographies are of extremely limited interest in astronomy." So if you find a figure 8 system, you are in a *really* special place. A suspiciously special place.
That quote from the link provided is referring to 3 stars in a figure eight orbit with each other (a trinary system - EDIT: ternary?) not a binary system with a planet in a figure eight orbit (this is basically the same info as my earlier post - three equal mass bodies can be in a stable figure eight orbit with each other).
"I fear all we have done is to awaken a sleeping giant and fill him with a terrible resolve."- Isoroku Yamamoto
Joe Joe's picture
Non-planar orbits
What about planetary orbits which are out of the plane of the two stars orbiting each other? For example, a planet orbiting the axis formed by a line between the two stars? This would potentially replace the cold poles of a planet with a cold ring around the equator if the planet were rotating in plane with it's orbit, and could do some really interesting things to the day cycle and weather, and if the stars are different colors, it could make any moons look interesting... Has there been much work done on non-planar orbits? -Joe
NewtonPulsifer NewtonPulsifer's picture
Joe wrote:What about
Joe wrote:
What about planetary orbits which are out of the plane of the two stars orbiting each other? For example, a planet orbiting the axis formed by a line between the two stars? This would potentially replace the cold poles of a planet with a cold ring around the equator if the planet were rotating in plane with it's orbit, and could do some really interesting things to the day cycle and weather, and if the stars are different colors, it could make any moons look interesting... Has there been much work done on non-planar orbits? -Joe
That's tricky because the stars themselves have orbits. I think a picture is probably the best example: [img]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/0e/Orbit5.gif[/img]
"I fear all we have done is to awaken a sleeping giant and fill him with a terrible resolve."- Isoroku Yamamoto
Joe Joe's picture
?La Grange Point Orbit?
I guess a ?la Grange Point? would then be at that + sign, so you'd be orbiting around it and the axis between the two stars? If the star orbits overlapped so one followed the other in more of a circle instead of the picture shown, could you form something stable with the above described orbit? -Joe
Arenamontanus Arenamontanus's picture
That cross marks the centre
That cross marks the centre of mass of the system. Now, by symmetry, you can *theoretically* have something there or even oscillating along the axis perpendicular to the plane of the orbits. But it is really unstable. Lagrange points are the places where the gravitational acceleration is exactly equal to the centipetal acceleration. In this case the centre is a Lagrange point (L1). Normally you get five: three along the line connecting the big masses, and two "trojan" semi-stable ones 60 degrees ahead or behind the orbit. Normally illustrations have nearly circular orbits (because one of the big masses is much lighter than the other, as in the Sun-Earth or Earth-Luna system), but it actually works even for eccentric orbits like the picture. See http://www.physics.montana.edu/faculty/cornish/lagrange.pdf for more details of the math.
Extropian
NewtonPulsifer NewtonPulsifer's picture
Thirteen new solutions to the
Thirteen new solutions to the the three body problem. Yay. http://news.sciencemag.org/sciencenow/2013/03/physicists-discover-a-whop...
"I fear all we have done is to awaken a sleeping giant and fill him with a terrible resolve."- Isoroku Yamamoto
bibliophile20 bibliophile20's picture
Klemperer Rosettes http:/

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