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Real world Anarchist/Argonaut?

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Wed, 2012-10-17 03:31
#1
Killebrew Killebrew's picture
Real world Anarchist/Argonaut?
So, was reading through some of this post, as well as their main website: http://transhumanpraxis.wordpress.com/2012/05/16/year-zero-munich-2012-s... and http://zerostate.net/ Curious what everyone's thoughts are on it. The topic in section 07 of the Munich Summary talking about a reputation based economy as well as the overall concept that they are presenting of "positive social change through the advancement of technology" and their concept of personal freedoms strikes me as a sort of amalgamation of the Anarchist and Argonaut ideals from Eclipse Phase.
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Mon, 2012-10-29 00:20
The Doctor The Doctor's picture
Killebrew wrote:So, was
Killebrew wrote:
So, was reading through some of this post, as well as their main website: http://transhumanpraxis.wordpress.com/2012/05/16/year-zero-munich-2012-s... and http://zerostate.net/ Curious what everyone's thoughts are on it. The topic in section 07 of the Munich Summary talking about a reputation based economy as well as the overall concept that they are presenting of "positive social change through the advancement of technology" and their concept of personal freedoms strikes me as a sort of amalgamation of the Anarchist and Argonaut ideals from Eclipse Phase.
25! We are rather busy these days at the Zero State. Many of us could be compared to Argonauts or light-blue Autonomists from Eclipse Phase. Ultimately, our main goals involve improving things for as many people as possible with as many practical open source technologies as we can bring to bear, from direct brain stimulation to information processing software to social and reputation networks. If change is to happen, as many people as possible need to have access to as well as a need for htem. Some of the debates are wild and wooly, but ultimately source code, blueprints, and experimental data trump debate. If anyone here is interested, by all means join the Doctrine Zero mailing list. Please keep in mind that we are primarily interested in practical (as opposed to hypothetical) technologies, and ultimately results are what we are after. Bring your pet projects.
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Fri, 2012-11-02 20:48
Extrasolar Angel Extrasolar Angel's picture
Killebrew wrote:So, was
Killebrew wrote:
So, was reading through some of this post, as well as their main website: Curious what everyone's thoughts are on it. The topic in section 07 of the Munich Summary talking about a reputation based economy
Shudders. Please no. There are a lot of topics here why reputation economy is part of dystopian part of the setting.
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[I]Raise your hands to the sky and break the chains. With transhumanism we can smash the matriarchy together.[/i]
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Sun, 2012-11-04 18:22
Killebrew Killebrew's picture
I hadn't seen those. Not
I hadn't seen those. Not sure why it would be considered a dystopian aspect of the setting though.
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Sun, 2012-11-04 19:26
Extrasolar Angel Extrasolar Angel's picture
Killebrew wrote:I hadn't seen
Killebrew wrote:
I hadn't seen those. Not sure why it would be considered a dystopian aspect of the setting though.
http://eclipsephase.com/why-money-if-theres-rep http://eclipsephase.com/lowering-rep-form-social-coercion http://eclipsephase.com/titan-technosocialism-primer
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[I]Raise your hands to the sky and break the chains. With transhumanism we can smash the matriarchy together.[/i]
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Mon, 2012-11-05 00:24
The Doctor The Doctor's picture
I feel the need to state that
I feel the need to state that reputation economics is a point of research for us right now, and not much else. We are uncertain as to how well such a thing would work, what its failure modes (deliberate and otherwise) would be in practice, and how much work would actually go into setting up such a thing. A few of us are designing a proof of concept implementation based upon Quantified Prestige, and adaptive fuzzers are being planned to stress test the system to see what we can make it do, as well as see just how such a thing would go pear-shaped and under what circumstances.
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Fri, 2012-11-09 13:07
bibliophile20 bibliophile20's picture
To me, it sounds like a
To me, it sounds like a reputation economy, to paraphrase a certain quote, is the worst form of economy... except for all of the other ones which have been tried from time to time. Yes, there will be abuses and attempts to game the system. But, personally, I'd prefer to live in a system where cooperation is encouraged and it is by my actions and not the size of my bank account by which I am judged. my $0.02.
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"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote." -Benjamin Franklin

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Fri, 2012-11-09 17:02
Extrasolar Angel Extrasolar Angel's picture
bibliophile20 wrote:But,
bibliophile20 wrote:
But, personally, I'd prefer to live in a system where cooperation is encouraged and it is by my actions and not the size of my bank account by which I am judged. my $0.02.
Some people prefer more abstract measures of worth than social interaction. Social skills aren't evenly distributed, and shouldn't determine value of an individual.
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[I]Raise your hands to the sky and break the chains. With transhumanism we can smash the matriarchy together.[/i]
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Fri, 2012-11-09 17:19
bibliophile20 bibliophile20's picture
Agreed. I'm one of them; I'm
Agreed. I'm one of them; I'm an extremely socially awkward geek who was significantly under-socialized and ostracized as a child. However, I try to be a decent person and live my life in accordance with the morals I was taught as a child, examined as a teen and integrated into myself as a young adult. And I'd like to live in a society where people that try to act decently are valued and it is the quality of their character, not their ability to manipulate social mechanics or the stock market, that truly judges a person's worth in society. And while a reputation based economy is not perfect either in that regard, from my own perspective it is a damn sight better than "the best democracy money can buy" we have now! *sigh* No system is perfect and no system *can* be perfect for all people; one-size-fits-all will chafe all sizes equally. But given a choice in where to live: a society where those that make money are valued above all else, and a society where those that help and contribute to the lives of others are valued, I know which I'd prefer. But that's just me and my own judgement for my own best fit as a person. I should not pass judgement for you and what might be your best fit.
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"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote." -Benjamin Franklin

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Sun, 2012-11-11 03:04
NewtonPulsifer NewtonPulsifer's picture
What about when someone burns
What about when someone burns my rep by lying about me? What about when somebody gets lots of positive rep without earning it? What are you going to do, have rep cops and rep courts?
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"I fear all we have done is to awaken a sleeping giant and fill him with a terrible resolve."- Isoroku Yamamoto
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Sun, 2012-11-11 11:22
bibliophile20 bibliophile20's picture
what about when someone
what about when someone steals my stuff from me, robs my home or cons someone at my bank out of my money? What if someone wins the lottery and gets lots of money without earning it? What are you going to do, have money cops and money courts -- oh, wait, we have those already: we call them the IRS and Wall Street, and we know how well they work. It won't be perfect. It never is. Any system has abuses and ways to game it. But the values of the society in this case more closely mesh with my own and it at least makes the attempt to reward those that try to fit in with those values. This is an improvement -- to me -- over capitalism, where the only societal value that is rewarded is the ability to make money. Nothing else. Ant at least it's an attempt to try to make things a better society, at least from my perspective. I get it that it's not from yours, and we'll have to politely disagree on that. Please.
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"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote." -Benjamin Franklin

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