Welcome! These forums will be deactivated by the end of this year. The conversation continues in a new morph over on Discord! Please join us there for a more active conversation and the occasional opportunity to ask developers questions directly! Go to the PS+ Discord Server.

Seeker and Grenade cost oddities

14 posts / 0 new
Last post
Re-Laborat Re-Laborat's picture
Seeker and Grenade cost oddities
Oddly, this hasn't ever come up in any of my games before so I didn't notice it...And a search of the forum for "micromissile minimissile cost" garners no hits: The seeker/grenade ammunition costs are problematic: ITEM: p. 339
Quote:
"Disposable Launcher (Standard Missile): This launcher is pre-packed with one standard missile. [Moderate (includes missile)]"
Excellent. So I can get a standard plasmaburst missile for a moderate cost? Lovely! ITEM: p. 340
Quote:
"Listed costs are for 10 grenades/missiles."
So the cost of micromissiles and minimissiles is identical? And so is the cost of standard and microgrenades? This seems rather peculiar. I'd be inclined to provide a larger quantity of micromissiles/grenades for the same cost. Thoughts?
OneTrikPony OneTrikPony's picture
Because the costs for gear
Because the costs for gear are highly granular and up to the GM within a wide range of $$ prices it could be that the costs for smaller versions are lower. Really it depends on your game table. I don't think the cost for smaller missiles should be a whole cost category lower considering that the EP economy is based on nanofabrication.

Mea Culpa: My mode of speech can make others feel uninvited to argue or participate. This is the EXACT opposite of what I intend when I post.

NewtonPulsifer NewtonPulsifer's picture
Speaking of nanofabrication,
Speaking of nanofabrication, coming up with blueprint costs for ammo isn't detailed either. Do you figure out the blueprint cost and then divide by the number of shots? Say my shard pistol - cost of [Low] for 100 shots. Blueprints are then [Moderate] divided by 100? 5 credits?
"I fear all we have done is to awaken a sleeping giant and fill him with a terrible resolve."- Isoroku Yamamoto
RustedPantheress RustedPantheress's picture
Blueprints are one cost
Blueprints are one cost category higher than the product, IIRC.
Somebody is using bad science! Snark, facts, snark. Your body is corrupted: Cool, do more science to it. Your mind is warped: That's nice, want a cookie? What do we say to the God of Death? Not today!
NewtonPulsifer NewtonPulsifer's picture
Exactly - but I only need the
Exactly - but I only need the blueprints for one bullet, not 100. If I was going to design a blueprint of a round in simulspace, I'd only need to make the one, not 100. So it stands to reason ammo blueprints should be based on the cost of one shot.
"I fear all we have done is to awaken a sleeping giant and fill him with a terrible resolve."- Isoroku Yamamoto
RustedPantheress RustedPantheress's picture
No, because the fabber isn't
No, because the fabber isn't producing them as single rounds, but as lots of 10, 20, 50, 100, etc. And it's not just materials cost. It's also getting the license to produce the ammo compatible with your gun, and various other costs. Think of blueprints as professional software: you buy the license to make the item.
Somebody is using bad science! Snark, facts, snark. Your body is corrupted: Cool, do more science to it. Your mind is warped: That's nice, want a cookie? What do we say to the God of Death? Not today!
OneTrikPony OneTrikPony's picture
LOL judging the cost of plans
LOL judging the cost of plans based on the book price of one shot vs 100 shots is a little bit metagame don't you think? :D If this was brought up at my table I'd make that judgment based on the outcome of a rochambeau. I get to go first! Seriously though; it's just not a dollars and cents game. If you need that level of resolution you really have to DIY. As a GM I'd hand wave the cost of amunition prints by saying that part of the cost is in keeping the prints secret and secure. Or, if a player continued to whine about it, He can have his 5 credit (cost Trivial) amunition prints and very shortly meet some NPC's I've been holding in reserve till someone fucks up.

Mea Culpa: My mode of speech can make others feel uninvited to argue or participate. This is the EXACT opposite of what I intend when I post.

NewtonPulsifer NewtonPulsifer's picture
WRT metagame - it feels to me
WRT metagame - it feels to me like you might have things reversed. I feel judging it based on 1 shot is the more self-consistent universe way. Its simulationist if you will. I'd expect the software built into a fabber with a disassembler to automatically be able to spit out a blueprint for something as simple as a regular bullet just by breaking it down, free of charge. Having plasmaburst and HEAP disposable launchers cost the same "because that's what's in the book" feels more metagamey, wouldn't you agree? There's things in the books that clearly don't add up - like growing a perfect full body from just a head in a week in a healing vat, but growing a clone from scratch in the same vat takes [i]3 full years[/i]. There's others.
"I fear all we have done is to awaken a sleeping giant and fill him with a terrible resolve."- Isoroku Yamamoto
OneTrikPony OneTrikPony's picture
By metagame I mean; how do
By metagame I mean; how do you pick a price point in the appropriate cost category for any number of bullets. The book doesn't say that 100 rounds of regular ammo costs 50 credits. It says they cost "Trivial" so how do you pick your credit cost? Does one round cost .09 or .99 credits? If the simulationist insists on using the Average Cost in a price catagory then must he pay exactly 50,000 credits for a 100,000 rounds of amunition? And, if so, does that simulate a realistic setting or does it simulate the book? I'm just saying looking at the "price" of things in the book isn't going to tell you much about the EP economy or setting. Because, there are no prices. A burrito may cost you 1 or 99 credits, Cost: Trivial tells you nothing about the price of beans or bullets. I understand this is heartbreaking for the strict simulationist gamer. For those people; they can have less anxiety if they don't get hung up on Cost Average numbers. (The GM can help by not using the Cost Average numbers too.) Healing vats (as well as all of the healing rules) don't tell us anything about the economy either. They are obviously [opinion]poorly written[/opinion] rules that conflict with the setting to facilitate play at the table. Fortunately that's not difficult to fix at the table. In the triangle plot of Simulationism/Narrativism/theotherone I sit closer to the simulationist side. I'd like to know more about your solutions to these economic conflicts.

Mea Culpa: My mode of speech can make others feel uninvited to argue or participate. This is the EXACT opposite of what I intend when I post.

RustedPantheress RustedPantheress's picture
NewtonPulsifer wrote:
NewtonPulsifer wrote:
There's things in the books that clearly don't add up - like growing a perfect full body from just a head in a week in a healing vat, but growing a clone from scratch in the same vat takes [i]3 full years[/i]. There's others.
It takes 18 months to 24 months (1.5 to 2 years) to grow a morph in a vat. It is literally [i]grown[/i], from an artificial fetus up to an adult body (or what ever age has been desired by the designer and/or customer) using accelerated growth therapies, while it is monitored to make sure that things don't grow wrong. When healing a morph in a vat (from a head, if necessary), it's just a matter of taking the existing genetic material and using that to build replacement parts.
Somebody is using bad science! Snark, facts, snark. Your body is corrupted: Cool, do more science to it. Your mind is warped: That's nice, want a cookie? What do we say to the God of Death? Not today!
OneTrikPony OneTrikPony's picture
Hmmm. There is a subtle
Hmmm. There is a subtle difference here that I'm not getting. How is growing a body from a fetus different than growing a body from a head with the exception that, in the second case, the brain already exists?

Mea Culpa: My mode of speech can make others feel uninvited to argue or participate. This is the EXACT opposite of what I intend when I post.

RustedPantheress RustedPantheress's picture
Well, you're just rebuilding
Well, you're just rebuilding the body, not regrowing it. Of course, I'm willing to bet that rebuilding uses some of the same things that the accelerated growth therapies use (which, I figured it out, you get right about a years growth per month, so a 16 year old splicer only takes 16 months), so the differences are subtle.
Somebody is using bad science! Snark, facts, snark. Your body is corrupted: Cool, do more science to it. Your mind is warped: That's nice, want a cookie? What do we say to the God of Death? Not today!
OneTrikPony OneTrikPony's picture
Ahh. So we've progressed from
Ahh. So we've progressed from artificial hips, skin grafts, plates and screws to quickly assembled matrices for organs that are designed/arranged on an individual's genetic pattern. All the organs could be regrown initially based off stock library "Type 0" cell models on the pre-made scaffolding and differentiate to the sample genetic stock as growth progressed. Cool Idea. :) That's a lot more believable for me than my original vision of a tiny body growing out of a head. It may be similar technology to the way Pods are manufacured. I'm still skeptical that this could be done in 15 days.

Mea Culpa: My mode of speech can make others feel uninvited to argue or participate. This is the EXACT opposite of what I intend when I post.

RustedPantheress RustedPantheress's picture
Well, it builds off of tech
Well, it builds off of tech that we currently have: take an organ that is still whole, strip stuff off of it so that you only get the support matrix for it, then apply the genetic material and make it grow. And I bet that the vats can easily build the needed matrix. Of course, materials are needed, but some probably come from dead morphs.
Somebody is using bad science! Snark, facts, snark. Your body is corrupted: Cool, do more science to it. Your mind is warped: That's nice, want a cookie? What do we say to the God of Death? Not today!