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how are antimatter WMDs detected?

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uwtartarus uwtartarus's picture
how are antimatter WMDs detected?
What are the signs of an antimatter bomb? I assume power consumption is part of it, the magnetic containment would require a lot of juice, this produces a strong magnetic field etc., but are there other ways to detect them? Fully contained antimatter doesn't decay or release neutrinos do they?
Exhuman, and Humanitarian.
Smokeskin Smokeskin's picture
If the containment is perfect
If the containment is perfect, it is really no different from ordinary matter in terms of decay and such.
NewtonPulsifer NewtonPulsifer's picture
First, Eclipse Phase has room
First, Eclipse Phase has room temperature superconductors, so you're probably able to set up a strong magnetic field without continual power input. To detect the antimatter, you'd want to fire neutral particles (neutrons and neutrino bursts) through the object that would potentially have the contraband antimatter and watch for telltale signs of heat and generated particle emission.
"I fear all we have done is to awaken a sleeping giant and fill him with a terrible resolve."- Isoroku Yamamoto
nezumi.hebereke nezumi.hebereke's picture
For nuclear weapons, there's
For nuclear weapons, there's always a tell-tale radiation signature. My assumption is that with anti-matter, you'll still never have 100% perfect containment. Due to quantum effects and such, tiny pieces of anti-matter are continually escaping containment and releasing radiation effects. Stronger shielding keeps reducing this percentage (at the cost of greater size and power consumption), but it will never be reduced to 0.
Arenamontanus Arenamontanus's picture
I had a little discussion of
I had a little discussion of this in my early adventure Think Before Asking: Antimatter detectors Antimatter, when stabilized and kept in a proper containment unit, is hard to detect. Most security scans look for the tell-tale signature of containment units but this only work when the unit passes through the scanner. A few scintillation detectors instead look for gamma photons with the specific energies of 938 MeV (the signature of proton-antiproton annihilation) and 511 KeV (electron-positron annihilation). Even a very good containment unit will have occasional annihilations. In space there are plenty of stray gammas but the signature gammas are specific for the presence of antimatter – if a detector gets a few flashes over a short span of time when it is not also detecting other cosmic ray activity, it can predict with good reliability the presence of sizeable amounts of antimatter within a few tens of meters. [Cost: Low] Basically, you look for photons with fairly particular energies. Subsequently I have learned that annihilation of protons is a far messier process: http://eclipsephase.com/comment/28439#comment-28439 So I would also look for muons and some pion decay gamma energies; same principle but more pattern matching going on. So, packets that are strongly shielded with superconductors (to avoid magnetic fields affecting the suspension of antimatter) and occur together with the wrong kind of gamma rays are suspect. Handle them with care.
Extropian
uwtartarus uwtartarus's picture
liberal sciences
I am kind of a muggle when it comes to actual science like physics but wouldn't the containment require serious amounts of power which are not impossible but rather something that would blind those with electrical sense? Magnetism ~ Electrical fields and vice versa.
Exhuman, and Humanitarian.
Arenamontanus Arenamontanus's picture
uwtartarus wrote:I am kind of
uwtartarus wrote:
I am kind of a muggle when it comes to actual science like physics but wouldn't the containment require serious amounts of power which are not impossible but rather something that would blind those with electrical sense? Magnetism ~ Electrical fields and vice versa.
The amount of power needed doesn't have to be enormous: think of the energy needed to lift a small metal object with an electromagnet. And with superconductors you can have it circulate endlessly without losses. You likely want the device to be able to replenish itself for a *long* time anyway just for safety, and there are going to be several backup systems. However, there will not be any eternal fields. Superconductors do not let magnetism through (this is why they levitate in a magnetic field), and this makes it possible to shield the interior. You want that not just because it is annoying to have metal objects getting stuck to your WMD, but because you don't want external fields messing up your control.
Extropian
Smokeskin Smokeskin's picture
Arenamontanus wrote:A few
Arenamontanus wrote:
A few scintillation detectors instead look for gamma photons with the specific energies of 938 MeV (the signature of proton-antiproton annihilation) and 511 KeV (electron-positron annihilation). Even a very good containment unit will have occasional annihilations.
Wouldn't you only have antiprotons in your containment bottle? If there are positrons there, won't they combine with the antiprotons and form antihydrogen with neutral charge which can't be kept in by the magnetic field?
Decivre Decivre's picture
Smokeskin wrote:Wouldn't you
Smokeskin wrote:
Wouldn't you only have antiprotons in your containment bottle? If there are positrons there, won't they combine with the antiprotons and form antihydrogen with neutral charge which can't be kept in by the magnetic field?
You can have either. If your detectors only detect antiprotons, then someone could theoretically make an antimatter store solely containing positrons which your detector wouldn't catch. You wouldn't want that.
Transhumans will one day be the Luddites of the posthuman age. [url=http://bit.ly/2p3wk7c]Help me get my gaming fix, if you want.[/url]
Arenamontanus Arenamontanus's picture
Smokeskin wrote:Arenamontanus
Smokeskin wrote:
Arenamontanus wrote:
A few scintillation detectors instead look for gamma photons with the specific energies of 938 MeV (the signature of proton-antiproton annihilation) and 511 KeV (electron-positron annihilation). Even a very good containment unit will have occasional annihilations.
Wouldn't you only have antiprotons in your containment bottle? If there are positrons there, won't they combine with the antiprotons and form antihydrogen with neutral charge which can't be kept in by the magnetic field?
I don't think you can have just antiprotons in a container, since you would need to handle the repulsion from like charges. It is OK for a handful, but not for the grams you need for a WMD. When antiprotons annihilate, they produce very energetic particles that shoot off - pions, muons and indeed positrons. Some positrons might get trapped, but most will likely escape. Same thing for the pions and muons: they will decay at a distance into various particles, including some positrons beside all those gammas and neutrinos. The mean free path for positrons in water/tissue is just about 5 mm, so they don't get very far. Since the distance is dependent on density it is even shorter if you have a bit of lead lining. I would expect escaped positrons to have about 1000 times the range in air, that is, 5 meters.
Extropian
NewtonPulsifer NewtonPulsifer's picture
You can magnetically contain
You can magnetically contain monatomic anti-hydrogen. It's paramagnetic (not ferromagnetic) but you can still do it with a very powerful magnet. It's the same method you use to levitate a frog: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetic_levitation So you don't have to have anti-protons or positrons alone.
"I fear all we have done is to awaken a sleeping giant and fill him with a terrible resolve."- Isoroku Yamamoto
Smokeskin Smokeskin's picture
Thanks for the clarification
Thanks for the clarification :) From wiki it seems that the material would need to be diamagnetic, not paramagnetic?
uwtartarus uwtartarus's picture
the reason I ask
The reason I am asking about it, besides curiosity, is that I intend for some hypercorp lab to have acquired a powered down Titan war-ship stealth fighter, and along with awakening the death machine and so forth, they are able to acquire some sort of stealth metamaterial that can make an antimatter bomb invisible to all detection, something that Firewall doesn't want around, because of the use of it as a perfect terrorist weapon sort of thing. So what should this stealth metamaterial do? Block out neutrinos as well as all signs of electrical fields, etc?
Exhuman, and Humanitarian.
Arenamontanus Arenamontanus's picture
uwtartarus wrote:So what
uwtartarus wrote:
So what should this stealth metamaterial do? Block out neutrinos as well as all signs of electrical fields, etc?
Well, for mere antimatter it would need to block gammas and maybe neutrinos really well. But blocking gammas doesn't take TITAN tech, just enough lead. That is not what Firewall is going to react to. I suggest the shielding is against neutrinos. That would require tech beyond transhumanity, and would have a lot of other worrisome implications (like ship and missile stealth). But maybe an even better tech to dislike is some kind of femtotech insulation field that makes antimatter really easy and safe to handle? No need for tricky suspension devices, just scoop it up in the field? If that happens then it might become both undetectable and widespread.
Extropian
uwtartarus uwtartarus's picture
Arenamontanus wrote
Arenamontanus wrote:
uwtartarus wrote:
So what should this stealth metamaterial do? Block out neutrinos as well as all signs of electrical fields, etc?
Well, for mere antimatter it would need to block gammas and maybe neutrinos really well. But blocking gammas doesn't take TITAN tech, just enough lead. That is not what Firewall is going to react to. I suggest the shielding is against neutrinos. That would require tech beyond transhumanity, and would have a lot of other worrisome implications (like ship and missile stealth). But maybe an even better tech to dislike is some kind of femtotech insulation field that makes antimatter really easy and safe to handle? No need for tricky suspension devices, just scoop it up in the field? If that happens then it might become both undetectable and widespread.
Femtotech allowing someone to handle antimatter without the pesky containment field part. Excellent. Thank you everyone for the contributions! It has been very informative!
Exhuman, and Humanitarian.