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Reclaiming the Earth: Who'd want to do it?

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Wed, 2012-10-03 16:36
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Libertad Libertad's picture
Reclaiming the Earth: Who'd want to do it?
The Reclaimer movement's the big "take the Earth back!" faction in Eclipse Phase, but the goal of taking back transhumanity's home-world is something a lot of powerful groups may support. What other factions do you think would support reclaiming Earth from the TITAN remnants, even if only a little slice of land? The Planetary Consortium would be against it. They view Mars as the new homeland, and Earth and the Lunar-Lagrange Alliance as backwards traditionalists obsessed with the past. The Autonomist Alliance would vary. The anarchist Berk in the opening corebook fiction views the dissolution of Old Earth nation-states as a sign of progress. However, anarchists are not known for being a unified bloc, and some may support the idea of beating back the TITAN occupation (although they'd do it their own way with minimal cooperation from Jovians and Hypercapitalists). Extropian opinion would vary, although many of them will find a market for it and profit off of it. The Scum would be more apathetic and continue their way of life in their barges; however, many Scum are Fall Evacuees, and setting foot on Earth once again might be a seductive call of nostalgia to visit their homeland. I don't know how the Titanians would view this. The Jovian Republic would be a little more complicated. On the one hand, they're the most militarized faction and contains the largest number of bioconservatives and non-atheists in the setting. Their resources, soldier mindset, and "guard against the TITANs" culture would be a huge asset for the upcoming war. Taking back Earth would be a massive propaganda victory, and both factions would jump at the chance to return to an earlier world/way of life. Unfortunately, the Jovian Republic functions as a closed totalitarian system; a massive transition of people out of their system and back to Earth would cause a huge political imbalance unless the Jovians managed to claim enough Earth territory for themselves. The Planetary Consortium is aware of this possibility, and any large-scale invasion of Earth would involve the two factions carving up Earth territory into geo-political borders for the post-War era. What are your thoughts?
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Wed, 2012-10-03 17:27
Arenamontanus Arenamontanus's picture
Libertad wrote:Unfortunately,
Libertad wrote:
Unfortunately, the Jovian Republic functions as a closed totalitarian system; a massive transition of people out of their system and back to Earth would cause a huge political imbalance unless the Jovians managed to claim enough Earth territory for themselves.
Although a good war can be an end in itself. Consider how most nations find that they can unify their citizens much more when there is an external enemy and a meaningful endeavour to pursue. So the Jovians might know that reclaiming Earth is near-impossible, but if the political situation at home required it, they would anyway start the crusade. Ultimates likely never say no to a good fight that will weed out the weak. Meanwhile some exhumans might get into their weird minds to help. After all, this is their chance to claim a proper homeland! Since they are the chosen ones of the TITAN gods, they are going to help open the portal for the mehums so they can experience true 0x43FA6010 with Sin-Modulation!! Ah, it will be delicious... so many kTln(2) of mind!!!
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Wed, 2012-10-03 17:52
Friend Computer Friend Computer's picture
I see this as starting a hot
I see this as starting a hot war with at least the Consortium, which would give the Ultimates the opportunity to grab the remaining Pandora gates in the system. That scenario might be enough to keep the Jovians at home. However, the effort to reclaim Earth and the resulting system-wide conflict would give them something to use all of that rusting military hardware on, and would give stregthen their grip on their populace. This would be especially true if they could turn the whole thing into an eternal conflict.
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Wed, 2012-10-03 18:25
cglasgow cglasgow's picture
Um, given who they're all
Um, given who they're all owned by, 'seizing the other Pandora gates in the system' requires rumbling every other major political power in the system except the LLA and the Jovians. All at once. The Ultimates don't got [i]remotely[/i] the size for that job, even if everybody else is distracted. Two of those gates (Pathfinder and Pandora) are on the 'home planets' of said polities, so there [i]is[/i] no 'distracted'; in a full-on hot war with anybody, the Consortium isn't going to leave Mars uncovered anymore than the Titanians are going to leave Titan undefended.
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Wed, 2012-10-03 19:09
Gantolandon Gantolandon's picture
Quote:The Autonomist Alliance
Quote:
The Autonomist Alliance would vary. The anarchist Berk in the opening corebook fiction views the dissolution of Old Earth nation-states as a sign of progress. However, anarchists are not known for being a unified bloc, and some may support the idea of beating back the TITAN occupation (although they'd do it their own way with minimal cooperation from Jovians and Hypercapitalists).
I don't think they would be interested. Not when the inner system is a hypercapitalist stronghold. Why would they risk their life to give their enemy a third planet? This is probably the thing that would be a deal-breaker for many potentially interested factions. Even if they successfully take the planet, it will most probably weaken them, so they can't expect to hold against the Consortium.
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Wed, 2012-10-03 19:17
Libertad Libertad's picture
Arenamontanus wrote:
Arenamontanus wrote:
Ultimates likely never say no to a good fight that will weed out the weak.
Many Ultimates fought against the TITANs during the Fall, and reduced their numbers by 80%, so a second war on Earth will give them opportunity for payback. The act of reclaiming Earth by driving out the TITAN occupation will help reignite the popularity of their faction and serves as an excellent way of proving to others the rightness of their ideology. Humanity nearly got destroyed by the TITANs, but the Ultimates fought back and won! The Ultimates have so much to gain for this maneuver that I can see the Autarchs and Demiurge encouraging this! Perish in a final battle or win and prove their worth as transhumanity's top dogs. It survival of the fittest in its purest form; they have everything to lose, and everything to gain.
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Thu, 2012-10-04 08:51
Decivre Decivre's picture
Libertad wrote:Many Ultimates
Libertad wrote:
Many Ultimates fought against the TITANs during the Fall, and reduced their numbers by 80%, so a second war on Earth will give them opportunity for payback. The act of reclaiming Earth by driving out the TITAN occupation will help reignite the popularity of their faction and serves as an excellent way of proving to others the rightness of their ideology. Humanity nearly got destroyed by the TITANs, but the Ultimates fought back and won! The Ultimates have so much to gain for this maneuver that I can see the Autarchs and Demiurge encouraging this! Perish in a final battle or win and prove their worth as transhumanity's top dogs. It survival of the fittest in its purest form; they have everything to lose, and everything to gain.
I actually imagine that many Ultimates see the concept of vengeance as petty. That's not to say that they don't practice it; I'm sure crossing one guarantees he will get you back at some point (they just wouldn't admit it was about vengeance). But the reclamation of Earth is more of a sentimental topic, and the Ultimates are not ones for sentiment. It's a weakness. And there is no point in going back for revenge; those that died deserved it for their iniquities, while those that survived have already proved themselves. There are greater challenges out there, and no reason to go backwards. It's not the "Ultimate" thing to do. But I imagine that Ultimates have no qualms with taking on jobs from Reclaimer clientelé. Their credits are as good as anyone's.
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Thu, 2012-10-04 09:54
King Shere King Shere's picture
Not entire factions
I don’t think any of the other factions would whole-heartedly support a reclaiming the Earth. If factions were totally harmonious in their beliefs and agendas –it would drastically limit them (Aside from their unifying features ;I tend to think of the factions as separate nations each with internal political discord of 3-4 strong belief systems). Sure there would exist groups among them, but there should also be powerful groups that would be actively against such enterprises. During the fall, humans didn’t work together –and instead were gleefully destroying each other. There exist whole lot of other reasons aside from the risk of Titan contamination. current factions would have powerful interests to actively be against reclamation projects to prevent exposure of Dirty war crimes, Old reasons to re-ignite animosity, Past debts, False claims And other old skeletons.
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Thu, 2012-10-04 11:28
Extrasolar Angel Extrasolar Angel's picture
Jovian Republic definitely
Jovian Republic definitely would be torn, and it would depend on which faction would dominate-I can see Catholic Church being supportive but also some factions could be interested in status quo, as it could mean confrontation with other factions and also loss of some control over citizens. I can see Reclaimers being supported by Jovians, Catholics and some of the left-over national ideologists like those Israeli remnants. Sunward also mentions a lot of people in Earth Orbit stations and some on Luna clinging to nationalism-so they would be in it as well. If not for re-settlement than for reclaiming some artefacts of big importance to cultural identity. The big question-how do you reclaim Earth? Can you wage a big offensive? Against what? Will TITAN remnants be able to act in unison after major human incursion? Other factions like Planetary Consortium might be opposed to such idea, as there might be a threat of a virus or nano-plague infecting would be re-settlers. So an overt attempt to re-colonize Earth could be met with farmed resistance if it is not pre-empted by successful memetic warfare. As to the methods: I think you can't make a one big offensive-probably you should isolate some outposts and try to reclaim them for habitability. You should start with isolated settlements and then expand your presence. For example-settle places like Marquesas Islands, New Zealand, New Caledonia. Places that are isolated from other territories, and you can have some more direct control over them. Of course it would remain to be seen if sea alone is successfully barrier. We also know very little about Earth, it didn't get much coverage in Sunward-I personally would like it to be discovered in more detail, perhaps in a X-threats book. **** List of places I would suggest for re-settlement bases and early presence: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marquesas_Islands http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stewart_Island http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ascension_Island http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cocos_Island
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Thu, 2012-10-04 17:58
Gantolandon Gantolandon's picture
The problem with the whole
The problem with the whole idea is that it's purely sentimental. No one actually needs Earth - it's an uninhabitable hellhole, full of dormant plagues and TITAN warbots and - what's most important - depleted of resources. Even terraforming Mars or Venus seems easier and Pandora Gates can be used to find completely unspoiled planets, maybe not free from dangers, but certainly safer. Yes, LLA is insistent - but they have much to gain. They profit heavily from the people visiting their old planet and resettling it would make them a powerhouse again. Right now they are a backwater and will fare even worse when Reclaimers lose hope. It's not that they really have choice. I can see no one else who would actually gain anything, except of a bit of prestige. Jovians would spread themselves so extensively it would be impossible for them to remain a centralized state they are now. Their whole political system works only because it's easy to control people in a habitat, with powerful fleet looming above their heads. The moment they relocate their warships (and they have to, because of the Consortium), they are facing the threat of rebellion. Outer system factions could potentially be interested - they need living space the most, after all. But they are not friends with Consortium and they have no forces that could let them actually hold the planet. And again - risking lifes and resources to get a planet which would be promptly invaded by the Consortium is pointless. The only faction besides LLA that could possibly be interested would probably be the Morningstar Constellation. But they are a bit too young for such ambitious project right now.
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Thu, 2012-10-04 18:42
Friend Computer Friend Computer's picture
cglasgow wrote:Um, given who
cglasgow wrote:
Um, given who they're all owned by, 'seizing the other Pandora gates in the system' requires rumbling every other major political power in the system except the LLA and the Jovians. All at once. The Ultimates don't got [i]remotely[/i] the size for that job, even if everybody else is distracted. Two of those gates (Pathfinder and Pandora) are on the 'home planets' of said polities, so there [i]is[/i] no 'distracted'; in a full-on hot war with anybody, the Consortium isn't going to leave Mars uncovered anymore than the Titanians are going to leave Titan undefended.
Hey, I'm just pulling that particular threat straight out of Rimward. The Ultimates can (probably) take Fissure Gate from the Love and Rage collective, and Firewall thinks they have enough resources near Discord Gate that they could (probably) take that one too. Taking the other Gates would require assault from the other direction, but could be done. Destroying the Gates (say by having jumper come back from a "new" Gate location armed with an antimatter bomb; the Ultimates and their sympathizers make up a disproportionate number of jumpers) is perhaps less desirable than capturing it, but they would still end up controlling all access through the remaining Gates. This gets easier if the Jovians have committed the majority of their fleet Sunward, which would force the Collective to keep their guns close to home.
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Thu, 2012-10-04 18:50
cglasgow cglasgow's picture
That scenario was about the
That scenario was about the ultimates' theoretical capacity to deny the use of their gates to the other factions, not about the capability to take and hold them all. It furthermore requires the assumption that Pandora Gates [i]can[/i] be destroyed, and that's a thing that nobody's tested so far. IOW, its an absolute worst-case scenario, not a probable one.
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Thu, 2012-10-04 18:53
Gantolandon Gantolandon's picture
cglasgow wrote:That scenario
cglasgow wrote:
That scenario was about the ultimates' theoretical capacity to deny the use of their gates to the other factions, not about the capability to take and hold them all. It furthermore requires the assumption that Pandora Gates [i]can[/i] be destroyed, and that's a thing that nobody's tested so far. IOW, its an absolute worst-case scenario, not a probable one.
As far as I remember, one of the gates was blown up and it reformed inside the crater.
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Thu, 2012-10-04 19:02
Friend Computer Friend Computer's picture
Gantolandon wrote:As far as I
Gantolandon wrote:
As far as I remember, one of the gates was blown up and it reformed inside the crater.
Yup, getting all blowed-up seems to be temporary for the Gates. It does seem to take a bit of time for them to heal though, which gives any group with sole control of the remaining Gates some time to solidify their position. I agree that it is unlikely, and if the Ultimates failed (or failed to solidify their position), they would be deeply screwed. I would expect them to only try this if something were discovered through a Gate that would give them sufficient advantage over everyone else.
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Sun, 2012-10-07 00:36
NewtonPulsifer NewtonPulsifer's picture
How numerous are the
How numerous are the Ultimates anyway?
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