I'd like to create a campaign that focuses strongly on intrigue, manipulation and social skills. But I find it tricky to incorporate "social combat" in a convincing manner:
See, nobody complains when physical combat is resolved by the roll of a die: that other guy clearly is more agile and manages to slip past the PC's block.
But resolving social interactions in such a fashion seems to torpedo the immersion experience:
The argument that NPC made was unmistakeably weak, all of the players see right through it - and yet, the dice dictate that all of their characters are perfectly convinced by this supremely suave opponent.
Have you encountered similar problems? And how do you handle it?
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The difficulties of "Social Combat"
Fri, 2012-09-07 04:41
#1
The difficulties of "Social Combat"
Fri, 2012-09-07 07:56
#2
Modifiers and bounds on
Modifiers and bounds on possible results.
A poor argument will mean negative modifiers to the roll, and an upper bound on the result you can achieve.
You could think of arguments, setting, relations, etc. like the weapons and battlefield and the reaction you want to achieve as the target's defenses. If you want a tank-equivalent reaction, you need recoilless rifle-equivalent arguments. If you only have pistol-level arguments, no matter how well you roll will you overcome the target head on - but like you could sneak up on the tank and gun down the crew opens the hatch, maybe relations, blackmail etc. can get the job done.
This explains it well to the players and makes both PC skills and player creativity matter, in the same way that to be effective in combat the PC needs skills and equipment while the player still needs to come up with the tactics.
I would also note that it is one thing for the players to rationally see through the NPC's scheme, but quite another for the PCs to resist the charismatic NPC's con. Plenty of bright people have been had in con schemes that - when viewed from the outside - seem totally transparent, or been seduced (or themselves seduced someone!) and ended up in horrible trouble even though the outcome seemed obvious. It is too much of a roleplaying challenge for some though, and you might have to just make do with NPC reactions (basically, if the NPC "wins" and the PCs don't play suit, the NPCs find their behavior highly inappropriate or dishonest).
Also, making most important social actions require several rolls is a good idea. If you wanted a combat-heavy campaign it would be a really bad idea to have a lethality level where one bad roll insta-gibs a PC. The same with social stuff. Don't just have a major interaction end up with a roll - roll regularly, and have the PCs and NPCs adjust their reactions accordingly.
Fri, 2012-09-07 10:10
#3
Indeed.
Indeed.
In combat, my character uses the right tool for the job. He uses cover, concealment, and tactics, which provide modifiers. However, even the best sometimes mess it up, and sometimes the wind blows at just the wrong time.
In social engagements, my character uses the right arguments, focusing on logos, ethos, or pathos as appropriate, supporting with artifacts. These provide modifiers. However, even the best speakers sometimes misread their audience, or fall off the stage or whatever, so we roll as well.
Sat, 2012-09-08 20:38
#4
A lot of times gamers like to
A lot of times gamers like to play characters who are smarter and more charismatic than themselves, or have in-game knowledge the players do not. So I think that having game mechanics for social skills is a good thing in RPGs instead of making the players come up with a stirring speech. Otherwise, players who are shy, introverted, or not good with social skills will just clam up and not deal with NPCs in case they make things worse.
Giving bonuses or penalties based on how they worded their arguments is a good idea. Another idea is to roll, then base the argument on the result of the roll (example: a failed roll on an inspiring speech means that the guy stutters and the speech loses its emotional effectiveness).
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Mon, 2012-09-10 10:24
#5
One thing I wish that more
One thing I wish that more games would have is a representation for actual social combat. SIFRP did social combat really well, as it extrapolated their combat rules to a social environment, and let them run on effectively the same game mechanics. The end result was an interesting way to push and influence characters in a game of political dealings.
Maybe we should make such rules for Eclipse Phase.
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Sun, 2012-09-16 22:42
#6
Jane the Bane wrote:The
here.) It wouldn't be too difficult to graft such a system onto social skill resolution in Eclipse Phase and it would allow the dice to have an impact without completely straitjacketing the players (particularly because they can take actions to remove the adjectives they don't like).
Basically, the trick to using dice to resolve social challenges is that you have to treat the dice result the same way an actor uses a script.
Maybe the actor playing Hamlet just wants to stab Claudius in his stupid, incestuous face. But he can't do that because Shakespeare's script tells him that his character doesn't do that.
Similarly, maybe the player just wants to see through the NPC's stupid lies... but the dice tell him that his character doesn't do that. The challenge to the player is to roleplay the script the dice give him; just like the challenge to the actor is to roleplay the script Shakespeare has given them.
For some players, though, this just doesn't work: The GM gets to control the entire world and the one, tiny strip of control they get to exercise is their character. Rules and situations which effectively take away that control from them are anathema to their enjoyment of the game.
You might want to check out Technoir for a system that's somewhere inbetween: Its core mechanic operates by pushing adjectives onto opposing characters. (Longer discussion —
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