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TITAN Penetration Testing

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Trekkin Trekkin's picture
TITAN Penetration Testing
I've been working on an intro adventure for my next campaign, and it occurred to me that, given the extreme risks associated with TITAN research and the equally extreme necessity of carrying such research out, Firewall might make use of decidedly unconventional methods of both finding non-crow labs and evaluating them for recruitment into the crows, monitoring, or sabotage. Like, say, packing the cleverest programming and nanotech they can generate into a can with "T.I.T.A.N." spraypainted on the side and burying it in the nearest scrap field for scavengers to find. Without necessarily being (predominantly) destructive, even a simple taggant swarm or similarly designed virus could send them the ID of whoever popped it open with inadequate precautions--as evidenced by its ability to get said information out of wherever they had it. Burying the contact info of an existing crow WELL within the contents might serve as a positive control, although the mechanics of that are hazier. Would Firewall do this sort of pentesting? How would one design a fake TITAN to be as effective a containment test as possible without killing innocent people? And how would the positive result return work? I mean, obviously the negative is the trap relaying to Firewall the identities of the guilty parties, and as a result the sentinels can get sent in and so forth...but I can't figure out how to alert people on the outside of a theoretically perfect containment system to that fact from the inside. Maybe embed an improvement on current technology and see who implements it?
Pyrite Pyrite's picture
Trekkin wrote:
Trekkin wrote:
Would Firewall do this sort of pentesting? How would one design a fake TITAN to be as effective a containment test as possible without killing innocent people?
I think you overestimate Firewalls benevolence. If the container was clearly marked, no one involved in opening it was innocent.
'No language is justly studied merely as an aid to other purposes. It will in fact better serve other purposes, philological or historical, when it is studied for love, for itself.' --J.R.R. Tolkien
Trekkin Trekkin's picture
Pyrite wrote:Trekkin wrote:
No one involved in opening it, no. But if what's inside is nasty enough to serve as an effective test, it could very easily escape the test container and run rampant not only through the facility but also the hab hosting it. Obviously, competent research would have its own station, but the whole point is to detect incompetent research. Thus there's a question of how to run an effective breakout, with nanoswarms and grey goo and netwar and everything else they can think of, without it being too deadly to people totally unconnected to the whole endeavor.
Prophet710 Prophet710's picture
x-risks carry with them an
x-risks carry with them an inherent need for absolute control or absolute destruction. Firewall would see containment loss as clean up work. Anti-matter warheads or mass effective nuclear fission. Sure it makes a big boom and kills alot of people, but it doesn't kill everyone.
"And yet, across the gulf of space, minds immeasurably superior to ours regarded this Earth with envious eyes. And slowly, and surely, they drew their plans against us."
It that must no... It that must not be named's picture
Not to troll, but when I saw
Not to troll, but when I saw the title of this thread I couldn't help laughing at the idea of it sounding like a condom ad. Reading the post made me see you had a damn solid idea here that deserves respect and consideration. So this is basically an undercover sting operation, I mean in a way like leaving a 'bait care' out for car thieves, essentially, while running hidden cameras. As to faking a TITAN relic, not too hard, I'd say, for firewall to pull off. Hell, they still run missions to earth, remember? The first thing we saw in EP was a mission to earth. ("Lack".) So they could get solid data on TITAN stuff to set up a fake. As far as effects, if a hypercorp was exposed as trying to exploit TITAN tech for profit without regard for safety, it's stocks, reps and maybe even it's property are going to take MF level hits. Even with good spin that sort of shit is going to be WORSE than getting evidence a modern corporation was working with neonazis who were trying to bring back the third reich. Seriously, a company messing with TITAN tech is going to have most transhumans out for blood. Sure some freaks like the exhumans and the ultimates may see this as a step towards survival and making themselves stronger, but they are going to be a tiny and mighty unpopular minority, like modern nazi types are today. I think FW would try to have at least one man on the inside of the organization being set up for the sting op as a control to observe how the agency in question handled the relic. He might have a killswitch for it in case things got out of hand. A funny idea occurred to me involving a firewall team pulling this but not knowing there is a real titan relic nearby and discovering that the mark they were watching knew about their sting and grabbed the real relic, thinking it was the fake, to embarrass firewall.

"I learned the hard way that if you take a stand on any issue, no matter how insignificant, people will line up around the block to kick your ass over it." -Jesse "the mind" Ventura.

Trekkin Trekkin's picture
Prophet710 wrote:x-risks
Prophet710 wrote:
x-risks carry with them an inherent need for absolute control or absolute destruction. Firewall would see containment loss as clean up work. Anti-matter warheads or mass effective nuclear fission. Sure it makes a big boom and kills alot of people, but it doesn't kill everyone.
So, what happens then? Some guy downspar did something stupid, so now everyone dies and let the scavengers sort it out? If that's how Firewall can be considered to work,I'm very okay with this.
BOMherren BOMherren's picture
The only thing people know
The only thing people know for sure about TITAN technology is that it does not operate according to the laws of science as we know them. That makes all simulation highly speculative and likely misleading. When the real thing comes, it might as well spread along vectors that you previously considered physically impossible, and that your simulation could not possibly recreate or anticipate. Of course, that little caveat might not be enough to prevent Firewall from trying. Maybe make it a high-tech equivalent of a modern trojan. It makes the subverted individual send some kind of subtle but definite acknowledgement to somewhere Firewall would notice. Not sure how exactly that would work in 10 AF.
It that must no... It that must not be named's picture
A really nasty option might
A really nasty option might be for FW to leave a real firewall artifact in the path of someone they know will misuse it in hopes it destroys them as a warning to others. FW would have to have a really heavy-duty cleanup team handy and in all likelihood they would not pull this unless they believed someone was a real danger that had to be stopped.

"I learned the hard way that if you take a stand on any issue, no matter how insignificant, people will line up around the block to kick your ass over it." -Jesse "the mind" Ventura.

BOMherren BOMherren's picture
It that must not be named
It that must not be named wrote:
A really nasty option might be for FW to leave a real firewall artifact in the path of someone they know will misuse it in hopes it destroys them as a warning to others.
That one doesn't ring true to me. Firewall is a secret conspiracy, with very limited resources, and no shortage of x-risks that demand their attention. It doesn't seem probable that they would risk exposure, and risk giving up valuable and potentially dangerous technology to their adversaries, just to intimidate the people who aren't supposed to know about them in the first place. Now, making a false TITAN relic out of a conventional fusion or antimatter explosive device with a QE trigger, and leaving it for the nosy investigators to find... : )
Trekkin Trekkin's picture
BOMherren wrote:
BOMherren wrote:
Now, making a false TITAN relic out of a conventional fusion or antimatter explosive device with a QE trigger, and leaving it for the nosy investigators to find... : )
And I, in turn, don't know if a simple bomb really serves as an effective test of anti-TITAN countermeasures. Certainly it's a fine trap, but all you're testing is everyone's resistance to pain. More to the point, how big a bomb a setup can hold is calculable given relatively easy-to-access data. Infection is harder to test without empirically testing it, even with something that isn't nearly as virulent as an actual TITAN. It weeds out the really unprepared people while, if correctly designed, highlighting the path the TITAN canister took from when Firewall let go of it to when they heard from it.
BOMherren BOMherren's picture
Trekkin wrote:And I, in turn,
Trekkin wrote:
And I, in turn, don't know if a simple bomb really serves as an effective test of anti-TITAN countermeasures. Certainly it's a fine trap, but all you're testing is everyone's resistance to pain. More to the point, how big a bomb a setup can hold is calculable given relatively easy-to-access data. Infection is harder to test without empirically testing it, even with something that isn't nearly as virulent as an actual TITAN. It weeds out the really unprepared people while, if correctly designed, highlighting the path the TITAN canister took from when Firewall let go of it to when they heard from it.
Oh no, a bomb is completely worthless as a way to test TITAN infection vectors. I meant that as a response to the suggestion that Firewall might arrange for their foes to destroy themselves with Firewall artefact technology, as a method of intimidation. I meant to say that a conventional bomb is a much better, more economical, less risky way to intimidate adversaries and tie up loose ends, as opposed to using secret Firewall technology (if such a thing exists). I think tests of the kind you describe are viable, provided they use the actual Exsurgent virus, and not a Transhuman virus proxy, as was previously suggested. It should be possible to develop some kind of containment procedure, if not necessarily a treatment or vaccine. The reason why I don't think a Transhuman virus would work as a proxy in this kind of test is because of the unpredictable knowledge of TITAN technology. It routinely does things that Transhuman science believes are impossible, so measures devised against conventional or even highly sophisticated viruses are probably not going to be effective against the Exurgent virus. And of course, if the TITANs return, after 10+ years of post-singularity technological development, then all bets are off. If they want to infect Transhumanity with something nasty, we could scarcely guess how they might do it, much less how we could stop them. You might as well rub your Cortical Stack with garlic oil, and hope that the smell scares them off.
Prophet710 Prophet710's picture
Honestly Trekkin, you're
Honestly Trekkin, you're asking how we feel, as GMs, that Firewall would operate. I see Firewall as that ever present force that is willing to go to any lengths to preserve the existence of humanity. If some foolish endeavor loses containment on TITAN artifacts or begins trading these artifacts with other factions, I see them being dealt with, harshly. That doesn't necessarily reflect how Firewall would operate in your setting. Yes I honestly see a loss of containment as a wipe worthy effort, expunging the entire habitat if need be. Yes, it will cause a ruckus and everyone will notice, but the majority of humanity will be left, and you can always reboot and build a new hab. You can't however, truly bring transhumanity back from extinction if there is no one left either whole or uninfected.
"And yet, across the gulf of space, minds immeasurably superior to ours regarded this Earth with envious eyes. And slowly, and surely, they drew their plans against us."