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Ego vs. Morph vs... Identity?

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DivineWrath DivineWrath's picture
Ego vs. Morph vs... Identity?
Hi. As most you probably know, Eclipse Phase is a new product line (the first) of a new company. It was first released a few years ago. As such, growing pains are to be expected. This brings me to a specific problem... Identity. The rules makes a distinction between the ego (your mind) and morphs (your body). You have the morph traits (and other qualities) that your morph has so long as you are sleeved in the morph, and you lose them when you switch out. As for ego traits, they are (some of) the qualities of your ego and are something that comes and goes with you as you resleeve. However, certain ego traits don't seem to fit the pattern of being... well... ego traits. These traits are things that don't seem to be part of how your mind works. These traits and qualities are more responses as to how people react to who they think you are. I'm making a distinction and calling this your identity. Your identity is something that can be hidden, and while hidden you can neither benefit nor suffer from the traits. The only way that you can suffer from your identity or benefit from it, is to be found out or for you to reveal it. Likewise, you can also try to pretend to be someone else, either real or fabricated, during which time your old identity is hidden while you benefit (and suffer) from your new identity. I'm wondering if anyone is interested in discussing this topic, or if I should develop this on my own (I feel that I'm half finished) and present the results later. ---- Right now, I think that these should be part of your identity. Positive Identity traits -Allies [30] -Parton [30] Negative Identity traits -Black Listed [5 or 20] -Black Mark (lv. 1, 2, or 3) [10, 20, or 30] -Enemy [10] -On The Run [10] -Social Stigma (Morph, or Identity) [10] Social Stigma trait is a little bit tricky with regards to egos. With the right technology, it is possible to determine that an ego is an AGI or Uplift, which is the source of the social stigma. Technically, this makes it an ego trait, but it is a trait (I think) that can be hidden like an identity trait. Of course, a detailed background check can reveal just about everything else about a character's history. A topic about how your past can haunt you is probably worth discussing. Likewise, a rep score should be tied to your identity as well. On (core rulebook, p. 331), it lists "Fake Ego ID" under services, and it is listed with a cost of [High]. I'm thinking that a more detailed fake ID (one useable rimward and with rep) should be priced at [Expensive] and would come starting with 50 rep points (like a starting character would have). Using morph brokerage as mentioned on (core rulebook, p. 276) as a base, positive identity traits should cost have an extra cost of 500 cr per cp, and negative identity traits would get a discount of 200 cr per cp. Since good rep is beneficial, you could get 1 rep point for 50 cr (1 cp = 10 rep, 500 cr / 10 rep = 50 cr per 1 rep). I'm not sure if you should be allowed to start with less rep than 50 though. Without any rep, one might wonder if you are not better off starting with a [High] priced fake id. If allowed, the price should be at a discount rate of 1 rep per 20 cr, though you wouldn't be able to save more than 1000 cr doing this.
Seekerofshadowlight Seekerofshadowlight's picture
Well Unless they say
Well Unless they say otherwise they are ego only.Almost all of those you listed are Ego Traits.
Gerzel Gerzel's picture
Also hiding one's identity
Also hiding one's identity isn't nearly as easy as re-sleaving. There are brainscans and many other ways to identify a morph and ego. Even anarchists are not going to let an anonymous ego drop into their stations. It is an area that could use some more fleshing out both in fluff and mechanics as to how the cat and mouse game of anonymity vs identity verification.
Thampsan Thampsan's picture
Ego is identity, and vice
Ego is identity, and vice versa. It's also not that easy to pattern match an ego given you can alter your ego with psychosurgery or some creative hacking (of the pattern matching software). You might have many different 'identities' but they are all tied to an ego, and those identities can be shared among each other. For example: Viktor, friend of the Movement screws up and brings the wrath of Direct Action down on himself and his cell. He says, 'Fuck it' and goes out of his way to find someone to hack and create him a new mesh-ID so he can operate in society without Direct Action murdering him on sight. He also alters his morph enough that it doesn't look the same as it did. Viktor now goes by the name Arkady, however Arkady isn't recognized by his old Movement friends as an ally, so if he wants his @-rep and allies: Barsoomian Movement to carry over to his new identity he must prove that he was Viktor to them (see Core Book and 'Proof of Identity parties'). Problem solved, however now that other people know that Viktor is Arkady if say another cell member was caught and interrogated Direct Action might also know this... Risk vs reward. Otherwise you have to start up your rep all over again. Also it depends on the anarchist station, most offer 'sight unseen' darkcasts from people who want to remain anonymous and hide (see Rimward), they might not be given a morph without a good reason but they at least have somewhere to camp as an infomorph.
Decivre Decivre's picture
Thampsan wrote:Ego is
Thampsan wrote:
Ego is identity, and vice versa. It's also not that easy to pattern match an ego given you can alter your ego with psychosurgery or some creative hacking (of the pattern matching software). You might have many different 'identities' but they are all tied to an ego, and those identities can be shared among each other.
Actually, it takes dramatic alterations to the mind to screw up your brainprint. Heavy drug use, psychosurgery, and things of that ilk. Even then, a deeper brainscan or a brainscan by a more skilled technician will eventually ID you, and once they do they can update the database with the shift in your brainprint. It is, in theory, as fool-proof as DNA is today. The only thing in the core book that supposedly can completely alter your brainscan permanently is the Watts-Macleod virus, and only under certain circumstances. If you want to hide who you are from brainscans, your best bet is to get a cyberbrain. Then you can use a fake brainprint plug-in to spoof another mind. Otherwise, find a way to dodge the brainscan or prepare for the very real possibility that they are going to find out who you are.
Transhumans will one day be the Luddites of the posthuman age. [url=http://bit.ly/2p3wk7c]Help me get my gaming fix, if you want.[/url]
Thampsan Thampsan's picture
Yes, fair enough point
Yes, fair enough point Decivre. It's still not 'easy' to track down egos if they decide to go off grid and 'anonymitize' themselves. Of course the best bet is not to stay on planet until things have settled down.
Decivre Decivre's picture
Thampsan wrote:Yes, fair
Thampsan wrote:
Yes, fair enough point Decivre. It's still not 'easy' to track down egos if they decide to go off grid and 'anonymitize' themselves. Of course the best bet is not to stay on planet until things have settled down.
It really depends on the person. The average civilian is likely very easy to track. When a crime is committed by a random schlub, it probably only takes a couple hours max before he's spotted with gait recognition software off the local spimes. But yes, there are far more tools for the professional phantom to utilize when they want to disappear. That's why the ego hunter industry exists.
Transhumans will one day be the Luddites of the posthuman age. [url=http://bit.ly/2p3wk7c]Help me get my gaming fix, if you want.[/url]
DivineWrath DivineWrath's picture
Yeah, I was thinking the
Yeah, I was thinking the extreme cases where it would be very important that no one ever know that you are really multiple people, or was someone else. I was looking to expand the rules to better handle professional infiltrator and spy, such as an anarchist working in hypercorp territory, or an AGI mercurial trying to worm its way through into Jovian territory. Anyways, I seem to be getting the vibe that no one is really interested. No big deal for me. I can simply switch to another project (I got many) and worry about it another day.
Quote:
Well Unless they say otherwise they are ego only.Almost all of those you listed are Ego Traits.
Yeah, according to RAW, all those traits are ego traits I listed are ego traits (or ego/morph traits). I don't know the point of you mentioning that. I was making a distinction between the functions of the mind, and what people think of you. No amount of psychosurgery is ever going to remove the allies trait, though it could be used to make you forget you had them. Your allies will continue to exist despite the psychosurgery, continue to be allies despite the memory loss, and would likely try to help fix the damage caused by someone mucking around inside you mind.
Tyrnis Tyrnis's picture
Each identity you get already
Each identity you get already can and does accumulate rep separately, and you can already spread your initial rep purchases among multiple identities at chargen if you purchase the fake ego ID. Yes, some traits are going to be tied to a specific identity. What does separating things out into identity traits actually gain you that writing down Allies: Barsoomian Movement (as John Smith) not do? So I don't think I see the same problem that you're seeing. That said, I do agree with you that you should be able to pay extra for a fake ego ID acquired in-game that comes with a rep-history, because being a blank slate is going to look suspicious in many cases. I do _not_ think that 50 is a magic number, though -- that's just the number for PCs. It would be perfectly legitimate to, say, get a fake ego ID with c-rep of 15 and nothing else, because the fake identity has been set up with a low level corporate work history and have no one who looked into the identity's background bat an eye because of how normal it is. High levels of rep should be all but impossible to acquire this way, though, unless you're engaging in identity theft or buying a specific identity, because high levels of rep mean that you are known and have an extensive history that anyone with the right skillset can research. Very difficult to fabricate in an age of constant surveillance. Buying a fake ego ID in-game with a name/identity of your choosing and 15 c-rep? Sure, that might add an extra 1500 credits to the cost of the gear (though I would definitely not give a cost break compared to purchasing the rep with rez -- rep is already underpriced as it is.) Buying a fake ego ID with 60 c-rep? Assuming it could even be done/was available, you're going to pay a fortune for it. You're looking at buying the identity of someone that's probably spent years living as this person and setting it up. Mind you, I could see this being a VERY lucrative white-collar criminal enterprise (though identity theft would be far cheaper and more common.) I tend to assume that if you have multiple identities at chargen with high rep, it's because you have spent a fair bit of time living as these personas.