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Question regarding armour stacking

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ottomancer ottomancer's picture
Question regarding armour stacking
Hi, I'm quite new to Eclipse Phase - have just recently finished reading the core rules. Very soon I aim to start a campaign with my regular gaming group, but before I do, I hope someone on these excellent forums can clarify a rules point for me about armour stacking - i.e. what can stack together? Could a character conceivably stack bioweave armour, smart skin, second skin, armour clothing and then a suit of armour? It's something my players are going to ask - they'll want to be protected as possible, but I don't want them turning into tanks. Thanks in advance. John
Jaberwo Jaberwo's picture
Armor clothing is a regular
Armor clothing is a regular piece of armor and counts with -20 for stacking (iIrc) And I wouldn't allow two kinds of super-thin-wearable-under-anything-armor. But don't worry too much about armor, it's less important than in other games, because there are so many other threats. Just search armor stacking for ideas how to get your walking tanks in trouble :)
NewAgeOfPower NewAgeOfPower's picture
Bioweave, Smart skin, and
Bioweave, Smart skin, and Second skin are all stackable without penalties. Armor Clothing cannot stack with anything except for Armor Vest (6/6) without penalties. Thus, with the prevailing interpretation of rules, Heavy Combat Armor + Bioweave + Smart Skin + Second Skin is the heaviest armor stacking that is widely available. Remember, even with 100 armor stacked up, they are still not immune to nukes! Or antimatter! As a EP GM, don't put yourself into a D&D DM's trap, for there are so many delicious ways to challenge your players.
As mind to body, so soul to spirit. As death to the mortal man, so failure to the immortal. Such is the price of all ambition.
OpsCon OpsCon's picture
Things that don't care one wit about armor--
NewAgeOfPower wrote:
Bioweave, Smart skin, and Second skin are all stackable without penalties. Armor Clothing cannot stack with anything except for Armor Vest (6/6) without penalties. Thus, with the prevailing interpretation of rules, Heavy Combat Armor + Bioweave + Smart Skin + Second Skin is the heaviest armor stacking that is widely available.
Don't forget a full helmet. That adds another +3/+3.
NewAgeOfPower wrote:
Remember, even with 100 armor stacked up, they are still not immune to nukes! Or antimatter! As a EP GM, don't put yourself into a D&D DM's trap, for there are so many delicious ways to challenge your players.
Many ways. Some are target-morph dependent, but there are ways to not care about their armor. While armor mods exist to combat many of these, nothing is 100% effective-- 1) Shard Pistols/Shredders/AP ammo (+rail guns for more AP) At the lower armor end (in the game I'm playing in, I'm seeing 8/8 as an average) the above listed weapons will pretty much slice through the armor without a care anyway. Even in moderate to high levels of armor, it still takes off enough value to make more of the damage get through. 2) Shock attacks Unless in a synth morph, Shock is brutally effective at making a target lose actions. Remember, it's not always that you need them dead, sometimes they need to just not be able to interfere. 3) Agonizers Again, unless in a Synth most anyone will have a bad day with these guns. And they are legal pretty much anywhere. I see them as the new Pepper Spray, except in a pinch they can actually burn your would be attacker. 4) Nanoswarms Nanoswarms care not about your armor. Some will even tear it apart, so you can then shoot them easier via the big holes in the armor. 5) Hacking Mesh Inserts If they take their time to be sneaky before attacking, a good enemy hacker could hack your inserts, then use AR Illusions to make you unaware of the enemy, or attacking the wrong targets. Or make you think you are putting on your armor when you are really strapping on a bedsheet (at least, if you live in a messy bachelor pad like my character). 6) The Law Not every habitat likes people walking around in full combat armor that are not part of a legally recognized police force or militia.
CodeBreaker CodeBreaker's picture
Also remember that called
Also remember that called shots bypass armour. And called shots are easy as hell.
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NewAgeOfPower NewAgeOfPower's picture
As a GM, it didn't make sense
As a GM, it didn't make sense that a helmet would protect you from body shots. I ruled the helmet's rating applied against headshots only, and body armor doesn't protect the head.
As mind to body, so soul to spirit. As death to the mortal man, so failure to the immortal. Such is the price of all ambition.
OpsCon OpsCon's picture
But that's your houserule. As
But that's your houserule. As written, that is the way the rules work. I use RAW when answering people's questions unless they give me context of a houserule used that relates.
CodeBreaker wrote:
Also remember that called shots bypass armour. And called shots are easy as hell.
Yeah, that too. Can't believe I forgot.
Geonis Geonis's picture
ottomancer wrote: I hope
ottomancer wrote:
I hope someone on these excellent forums can clarify a rules point for me about armour stacking - i.e. what can stack together? Could a character conceivably stack bioweave armour, smart skin, second skin, armour clothing and then a suit of armour? It's something my players are going to ask - they'll want to be protected as possible, but I don't want them turning into tanks.
Pretty much anything can be stacked up to the current morphs DUR. However, not all things stack without penalties. The armored clothing and the body armor would be considered layered armor (Core Book, page 194), and impose a -20 penalty on characters actions since they are wearing two layers. The rest of the listed items, I believe, would not count against them.
Xagroth Xagroth's picture
We made the calculations in
We made the calculations in another thread, and while a synthmorph can reach (fully modded and calling a lot of attention) 32/32 or so armor, a biomoprh can reach the peak of 28 or 30, more or less, adding everything together. Personally, a chamaleonic cloack with a small antenna showing in the ground for short range comms with a spotter drone is a better protection that being a walking tank. And yeah, using the Mesh can ruin your day. There are few protections against being tossed into space from an orbital habitat thanks to a hacked door... :p
NewAgeOfPower NewAgeOfPower's picture
Geonis wrote:
Geonis wrote:
The armored clothing and the body armor would be considered layered armor (Core Book, page 194), and impose a -20 penalty on characters actions since they are wearing two layers. The rest of the listed items, I believe, would not count against them.
The 6/6 Armor Vest specifically states that it can stack with Armored Clothing. It is still inferior to Heavy Combat Armor, though.
As mind to body, so soul to spirit. As death to the mortal man, so failure to the immortal. Such is the price of all ambition.
ottomancer ottomancer's picture
Thanks for all the replies :-)
Thanks for all the help guys, I really appreciate it. I missed the -20 penalty, so thanks for pointing me to that, and searching on 'armor stacking' certainly gives me lots of ideas how to take control of characters who think they're invulnerable. So I guess a player can stack armour as follows without receiving a penalty: Bioweave (light OR heavy) Second skin OR smart skin Armour (armour clothes OR armour suit of some kind) In addition if a player wears armour clothes they can also wear a vest without penalty. However wearing armour clothes under a suit or armour incurs a -20 penalty. Squeezing in a vest (if I allowed it) would incur a -40 penalty. Is that right?