Hello everyone,
Had the book for awhile but just now delving into it. Haven't yet gotten too deep into the mechanics section, and have been spending long periods of time absorbing the setting and even more perusing the forums here.
My initial thought about the game is that uploading is not the same as actually transferring your consciouness, but rather a facsimile thereof. Kind of like the Prestige if you will (one of my all time favorite movies btw). Who is to even say that the programs (whether info, cyberbrain or encoded brain) is still really "you" and not just a sophisticated version of cloning? It's pretty scary to think about, though I get that from the game's POV, the consciousness IS the data/neural structure, meaning that from the game's perspective there really is no soul or bio-energetic component required for life. Your copy IS you...and it isn't, though it may remember being you. Heady stuff.
A few questions:
You can be a bio-pod with a cyber-brain, but I haven't yet read anything about Robocop style cyborgs with synth shells and organic brains (so as to not be vulnerable to cyberhacking, but have all the rugged advantages of a synthmorph)...does this happen?
With regards to character creation, I'm of two minds...spend the max allowed on credits and then buy a tricked out morph, the best CP and money can buy...
...or start as an infomorph (or even infolife), and just acquire the same badass morph(s) in game, while saving a ton of CPs to spend on skills. For that matter I could still start the game as an infomoprh with tons of credits and buy myself that morph shortly after creation.
With the likely chance of farcasting, or death, it seems like a colossal waste and act of stupidity to spend any starting CPs on a morph when buying up skills and aptitudes is presumably much more expensive with xp/rex (haven't gotten that far yet).
What do you guys make of this? I'd like to start with a badass moprh of course, but it seems a mistake, at least for optimization purposes.
The other advantage I can think of for playing such a way is to be more fluid and happy with trying out different morphs which seems to be part of the game, rather than picking just one/or ones style that I would be attached to.
I know it comes down to play style and preference, but my optimization habits are a persistent part of my enjoyment of rpgs.
Another question...is the IC section here run as a sort of open-world forum? Or are there actual PbP games? My opportunities for gaming IRL are not so great so I tend to seek out PbP games if I want to enjoy them...
Thanks, hello again, and let me know if you have any questions for me. :) I'm sure I'll have more questions as I go.
Welcome! These forums will be deactivated by the end of this year. The conversation continues in a new morph over on Discord! Please join us there for a more active conversation and the occasional opportunity to ask developers questions directly! Go to the PS+ Discord Server.
First Post: Introduction, Questions, and Musings
Wed, 2012-07-11 22:52
#1
TekHed
First Post: Introduction, Questions, and Musings
Wed, 2012-07-11 23:54
#2
Arenamontanus
Re: First Post: Introduction, Questions, and Musings
Most people who believed this were wiped out in the Fall, since they couldn't get off-planet. Today I assume the people who believe this are concentrated in the Jovian Republic.
Should be doable. You need some kind of life support module, but otherwise things would be fairly standard. Some different implants, probably the need for slightly altered damage rules.
Remember that morphs are easily lost when you have to go off-world via egocasting.
But morphs also tell a lot about the person. It is a way of expressing their personality, background and circumstances.
—
Wed, 2012-07-11 23:38
#3
NewAgeOfPower
Re: First Post: Introduction, Questions, and Musings
Gear availability may be limited once campaign starts. For example, its pretty hard to find a Reflex Booster in your neighborhood deli.
But yeah, usually, don't put your best morph in situations where it may be lost UNLESS you must, like, the campaign Finale or midway climax.
CP/RP gain is very slow compared to initial starting pool, however, skill costs/attribute costs are exactly the same.
Oh yeah, I worked up some biological brains that are Cyberized and Hardened for interfacing with Synthmorphs, to allow Asyncs the ability to use a Synth if they wanted.
>>>Cognite Cyberized Bio-Brains *** Variable Cost, Acquirable only with good C or G rep.
These are biological brains hardened and impanted for use in synthmorphs, to allow Asyncs the ability to acess Sleights while in synthmorphs.
They are laced with implants, and structural rigidity enhancing nanoweave. However, the Cyberization allows them to be hacked just like normal Cyberbrains.
They still cannot withstand more than 300G (max loading) or 50 G (constant loading).
Many bioware enhancements/drug enhancements now work on a synthmorph with such a brain, see GM for details.
Sleeving into a cyberized bio-brain takes one action turn, however, character will suffer a -10 for up to 15 minutes after sleeving, as it takes more time
to intergrate into 'meat'.
-GP Cyber Model [Expensive x 2]
For those who just prefer the feel of an organic computational environment,
and the ability to access biological waring.
COG COO INT
+5 +5 +5
-EX Elite Model [Expensive x 3]
For enhancing ther performance of your professional Asyncs. Biological Waring Compatible.
COG INT WIL
+5 +5 +10
—
As mind to body, so soul to spirit.
As death to the mortal man, so failure to the immortal.
Such is the price of all ambition.
Wed, 2012-07-11 23:39
#4
TekHed
Re: First Post: Introduction, Questions, and Musings
Re: are infomorphs actually us? I was more posing it as a question about what you good people think rather than the setting. Of course in the setting it would be called "bioconservative" or somesuch. Isn't it this kind of existential thought that leads to stress and alienation/insanity?
Re: egocasting: This is why I'm thinking it's a waste...start as infomorph, spend all your points on attributes and skills and possibly credits...get what morphs you can in play. At least from a purely optimizing POV. I can think of many characters I'd make who would start with morphs because hey, that's the character concept. I guess I still have an attachment of sorts to having sick gear for my characters that I'm tempted to spend the CP on morphs/implants/battlesuits eta l...
Unless there are other options besides egocasting? I'm guessing the Ultimates in their shiny Remade sleeves would be loathe to just leave it behind and have to start over in some rental. How does it work in actual play though? If money (or what substitutes for value) is easy enough to come by, maybe that Ultimate can afford to buy a tricked out new body whenever he/she wants...???
Wed, 2012-07-11 23:42
#5
NewAgeOfPower
Re: First Post: Introduction, Questions, and Musings
Personally, I lean towards the transhumanist/utilitarian side of things.
I have things I need to get done. If I die, and this mere ghost (backup) of me is able to finish what I started, excellent.
—
As mind to body, so soul to spirit.
As death to the mortal man, so failure to the immortal.
Such is the price of all ambition.
Wed, 2012-07-11 23:46
#6
TekHed
Re: First Post: Introduction, Questions, and Musings
So...by that rationale, I SHOULD build my "perfect" desired morph at chargen...?
...or at least have your morph insured, neh?
Suite! Psi-borgs...I like! Though being vulnerable to cyberbrain-style hacking defeats the purpose I was going for in terms of combining durability with security.
Thu, 2012-07-12 03:18
#7
Decivre
Re: First Post: Introduction, Questions, and Musings
Perhaps, but you really have to ask yourself if it's worth it. It would take a lot of maintenance and tech to sustain a brain without a body, whereas it would be significantly cheaper to harden a cyberbrain to hacking (disable or remove the mesh inserts and access jacks… done!).
Within the context of money vs CP/Rez values, most morphs are actually much cheaper at creation than they are during play. Plus, you don't have to deal with issues like rarity (which might make it harder to find your morph in-setting). However, you won't have the advantage of being able to haggle or find alternative means of acquiring said morph (like stealing, or using blackmail, or any number of other colorful means).
But really, it'll depend on the sort of character you want to play. For instance, one of my characters, rather than starting with a body, started with the blueprints for a specific synthmorph. That way, he could manufacture them as he pleased rather than being beheld to one body that might be destroyed down the line.
Perhaps, but then you are heavily reliant on the whims of whomever chooses your morphs, and for whatever mission you might be doing. Buying your own morph is like buying your own gun… an issue is a nice thing to have, but being able to get one that's perfect for you can mean all the difference in the world.
More of an in-setting forum. We tend to portray the characters in that forum as if they were having their own discussions.
For some, sure there will be issues with the concept of being an infomorphs. For others, not so much. Whether something will be psychologically unsettling really varies from person to person. Some people will see bodies as intimate things you can't simply jump out of, while others will see them as discardable as clothing.
But then you are beholden to whatever body you are sleeved to. Plus you don't actually own a body… you just get to use one whenever you are issued one.
There's ship travel. For major organizations like the Ultimates, it's likely feasible to have a body made or transported to other locations before you arrive (especially if you have a good reputation), and there will be some people who have multiple bodies stored throughout the system.
I might at least recommend buying the morph. You don't necessarily need to upgrade it until play starts.
—
Transhumans will one day be the Luddites of the posthuman age.
[url=http://bit.ly/2p3wk7c]Help me get my gaming fix, if you want.[/url]
Thu, 2012-07-12 03:27
#8
TekHed
Re: First Post: Introduction, Questions, and Musings
Hmmm...yeah I've seen that style of IC play on other boards with other games but while it IS interesting, I have found it is not for me. I really need the structure of a proper game with a GM and a proper plot. I've found keeping up with open-world games is just too taxing on my time and mental resources.
Can anyone direct me to any PbP here or on other sites who are open to a new player?
Thu, 2012-07-12 03:38
#9
Decivre
Re: First Post: Introduction, Questions, and Musings
The Registry forum on this site is a bulletin for finding players and starting online games. You can use that as a means of finding an online game for you.
—
Transhumans will one day be the Luddites of the posthuman age.
[url=http://bit.ly/2p3wk7c]Help me get my gaming fix, if you want.[/url]
Thu, 2012-07-12 03:47
#10
TekHed
Re: First Post: Introduction, Questions, and Musings
Ah. I had perused it briefly and had surmised based on that survey that it was for people wanting to find players for meat-space games. :)
I'll post up a request, see if anyone bites.
The one thing is that I do not have the time or indeed much skill in running a whole campaign by myself, so I tend not to GM.
I am enjoying the forum btw.
Thu, 2012-07-12 04:11
#11
Decivre
Re: First Post: Introduction, Questions, and Musings
Well, it's for both. There are a few skype-based games, and occasionally you'll see "looking for players in X region" threads for starting IRL games. But there are definitely online games in there.
I'm glad you're enjoying the forums.
—
Transhumans will one day be the Luddites of the posthuman age.
[url=http://bit.ly/2p3wk7c]Help me get my gaming fix, if you want.[/url]
Thu, 2012-07-12 05:15
#12
DivineWrath
Re: First Post: Introduction, Questions, and Musings
Transhuman design philosophy. If your body is organic, then they try to install organic components as opposed to synthetic components. They'll install synthetic components if they can't produce it organically. This isn't set in stone though, but if you really want to do so, you can always insist on installing synthetic components even when organic versions are available. Most bioware augmentations have a cyberware equivalents. However, keep in mind that organic bodies and bioware augmentations tend to heal. Now a days, most people have the basic biomods augmentation which allows transhumans to regenerate tissue like lost limbs.
In Eclipse Phase, people who use synthetic bodies are often considered poor (the "case" is arguably the very worst body you can get, as they are prone to frequent malfunctions). While hi-end synthmorphs are available, they usually belong to hypercorps or other similar organizations. They provide bodes to indentured personal or people with better contracts, to enable them to do dangerous work which often requires hi-end bodies. Considering hi-end synthmorphs can be produced in time periods measured in hours, as opposed to the few years needed to grow a new biomorph, its usually less trouble to produce synthmorphs for security purposes.
I could keep ranting, but I think I have made my point.
Thu, 2012-07-12 08:05
#13
Janusfaced
Re: First Post: Introduction, Questions, and Musings
Morph brokage takes some time (1 day for High-cost morph, 3 days for Expensive-cost one). And you will need days to acclimate to new morph, unless you roll Excellent Success or better. And in some adventure, you are expected to be ready to action, or it take place on isolate habitats where morph markets are unavailable. In other words, you buy a morph PLUS TIME AND CERTAINLY when you pay CPs.
Aptitudes and skills will save your money in long time, provided you run enough long time. But morphs and other gears work well in short time. And who ensure you (or Transhumanity) will life enough long, with X-risks?
You can take both methods. For example, if you buy a morph with CPs AND a synthmorph brueprint with Credit, you are ready to action and resleeving will be reasonable in some circumstances (when you have a day or so to nanfab new synthmorph).
—
Your average, everyday, normal, plain and dull transhuman
Janusfaced's outpost(writtern in Japanese)
http://janusfacedsoutpost.blog.fc2.com/
Thu, 2012-07-12 08:08
#14
TekHed
Re: First Post: Introduction, Questions, and Musings
I just took my first stab at building a character...I'll post it up tomorrow when I have time to type it up from my scratch paper so I can get a constructive critique. Heck, maybe I'll do two.
One thing I was concerned about with tricking out a biomorph would be that I can only afford one, and getting another one would not only be exhorbitantly expenive to make, or near impossible to find, but even assuming I had somehow arned hundreds of thousands of credits to spare, growing it would take a year (or more right? Like 3?)...
As for my infomorph idea, I'd make him an expert hacker, create programs to steal and launder credits, create a false online identiy and order and or assemble a small army of morphs...tricked out reapers, arachnoids, and a a super sylphed out fury for being more social...I could do the same thing by acquiring a fabricator and hacking the blueprints needed. This is one of the reasons I was thinking that a powerful infomorph hacker could end up more powerful than a combat character that has one (and only one) badass morph. I could see playing it like the Count of Monte Cristo...hacking a ton of wealth/resources, creating a false ID as a noveau rich hyperelite, sleeve into a badass yet discreet biomorph, with a small army of forked alphas or betas (cause hey, infolife I more progressive that way than transhuman culture (others would just think them AIs...) and infiltrate the scene for whatever purposes I see fit...
Thu, 2012-07-12 13:54
#15
Tyrnis
Re: First Post: Introduction, Questions, and Musings
Most people don't have the base biomorph grown specifically for them (though there are exceptions, particularly among the ultra-wealthy, for whom it might well be a status symbol.) Think of it as buying a car -- you go to the lot, look at what they have or can readily get, and then have them add options (or not) as you see fit. Buying a new biomorph works very much the same way, except that you can do it all via mesh if you so desire, so assuming the morph type and desired implants are available, they can just give you a date when it'll be ready and waiting for you to pick up. If you're looking for combat morphs like the Fury or Ghost, you're probably dealing with a more thorough background check and a longer waiting period, assuming you can get them at all.
Thu, 2012-07-12 14:49
#16
TekHed
Re: First Post: Introduction, Questions, and Musings
I couldn't find a price list for blueprints, but I'm probably not looking in the right place...
Can I get synth blueprints that include all my desired bells and whistles, or do you just have to start wth a base model every time, and have seperate blueprints for each implant/add on/implanted weapon?
Thu, 2012-07-12 14:51
#17
Decivre
Re: First Post: Introduction, Questions, and Musings
Blueprints are one cost category higher than whatever object it happens to be for. Blueprints for an item at high value are at expensive value. Blueprints for an item at trivial level are at low level. You'll have to come up with rules regarding blueprints for items at expensive level that are usable at your table. I tend to go from Expensive to Expensive (30,000+), then add 10,000 to the minimum cost from there.
—
Transhumans will one day be the Luddites of the posthuman age.
[url=http://bit.ly/2p3wk7c]Help me get my gaming fix, if you want.[/url]
Thu, 2012-07-12 15:26
#18
TekHed
Re: First Post: Introduction, Questions, and Musings
Logically though, it would make sense that you could program the fabricator to make your morph with ll the bells and whistles already built in...as in all the implants and extra armor and such would be in the blueprint already, yes? Or...would you have to have all of the blueprints seperately, fabricate them seperately and then install them individually?
If the former, you are looking at a morph easily 100k credits worth, so how much more expensive would the blueprint be? If the latter...well that could be even MORE expensive, if you have to buy blueprints seperately for 4 or 5 items that are by themselves expensive on top of an expensive morph.
And...how easily do characters come by credits/rep points that equal credits? Can characters get filthy rich? With a high enough skill level in hacking and programing, would my Monte Cristo scheme be workable?
On a similar note, what if I want my character to start with their own spacecraft? I noticed no prices were given.
Thu, 2012-07-12 16:09
#19
DivineWrath
Re: First Post: Introduction, Questions, and Musings
I was giving some thoughts as to how to make a robocop like morph using the current Eclipse Phase rules. You can produce the physical body using a flat as the base, and adding cyberlimbs to mimic the limbs, and adding carapace armor (as cyberware) to duplicate the armor. You could duplicate the programing robocop had by using psychosurgery.
Of course, this being Eclipse Phase, its possible to make better. You could select a better biomorph to serve as the base, and use better augmentations. With your GM's permission, you might be able to add hardware normally reserved for robots and synthmorphs, to reflect that the morph has been so heavily modified that the lines distinguishing man and machine has been blurred.
----
You can find blueprints listed on (core rulebook, p. 328). That page is somewhere in the nanotechnology section. As already mentioned, the price for blueprints is the next price category up of whatever it is the blueprint is supposed to be able to build.
Regarding building synthmorphs. I rule that you need blueprints for the morph and all augmentations the morph will be using. You then may then program a cornucopia machine (a simple success test) to make your morph and with all the augmentations in one go. Most such fabricators tend to include AIs that can do the programing for you if you are not skilled. You can probably program some sort of instruction set detailing what goes where, and how it should look.
I should warn you though that building something expensive like a synthmorph is considered quite taxing on system resources. As such, their build orders will likely get pushed back to point in time when the resources needed to build it are in less demand.
Thu, 2012-07-12 16:52
#20
DivineWrath
Re: First Post: Introduction, Questions, and Musings
By the way, the rules state that you may only spend up to 100 cp to get credits at character creation. At the rate of 1 cp = 1000 cr, you are not going to be able to have more than 100,000 cr to buy things. You can kinda get around this considering that during character creation, morphs are bought using cp, not credits.
The reason why there are no prices for spacecraft is the same reason why there are no prices for habitats... players are not likely to be able to afford one. If a single morph could cost as much as 100k cr or more, how much more would a habitat that could house a 1000 people cost, or a spaceship that could transport a few hundred people and goods cost? If you somehow owned a spacecraft at character creation, it is because the GM said so.
Thu, 2012-07-12 17:23
#21
TekHed
Re: First Post: Introduction, Questions, and Musings
OR...well, why not just find a way to have your synthmorph blueprint already come with the mods in it (i.e an actual complete blueprint). The price would probably be the same though I grant you, since that would be one amazing blueprint...).
Also, I seem to recall that making synths was actually quite a bit cheaper and with CMs resources are now post-scarcity in many places (and the places which aren't post scarcity are that way for the same reason we in our real world aren't already post-scarcity...because the powers that be want us enslaved to their monetary/debt system to be indentured aka needing jobs).
As for spacecraft, I wasn't thinking so much about a giant transport so much as being able to start with a Millennium Falcon for a smuggler type of character...
Thu, 2012-07-12 17:41
#22
TadanoriOyama
Re: First Post: Introduction, Questions, and Musings
I don't think you'll see many Millennium Falcon style ships. With travel being such a long haul you see two kinds of vessels in the vast majority: small, fast, transport ships with a high fuel mass to ship mass ratio and large ships moving bulk goods. Rather than having a smuggling ship, a smuggler is probably more known and respected for being able to hide specific things inside of these larger cargo ships.
—
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[img]http://img822.imageshack.us/img822/4205/nightcartelbanner.jpg[/img]
Thu, 2012-07-12 17:41
#23
Jaberwo
Re: First Post: Introduction, Questions, and Musings
The prize for blueprints rises with the upgrades included, there might be a package deal, but it will still cost you almost as much as purchasing everything separately.
The problem with spacecraft is that there are no cheap ones. The smallest you could get is still probably bus-sized and worth its mass in synthmorphs.
Thu, 2012-07-12 18:43
#24
TekHed
Re: First Post: Introduction, Questions, and Musings
Hmm...what with fusion and antimatter though...and with zero gravity, inertia, and other tech like solar sales and ionic drives, one would think that you wouldn't need some kind of large fuel mass...a little fuel would go a LONG way with that tech...you have your AI nav computer calculate everything, do a short burn of your fusion/antimatter engines to get you accelerating and away you go...short maneuvering blasts when needed and then of course a decel burn. But again, even with simply having fusion tech, your fuel needs aren't going to take up much room, considering how much power is in just a couple atoms...
As for starting with a ship, in the Star Wars RPG they are also prohibitively expensive, but if you ask your GM and it fits the story and your character concept you can start with your own ship. Sure it may well be modest, but any PCs worth their weight in nanoswarms can just use it along with sneaky tactics to pirate or otherwise acquire a better one. Makes me wish the rules for star travel/combat were better fleshed out (and yes I have read the lengthy physics-paper riddles discussions elsewhere on these boards).
Thu, 2012-07-12 19:06
#25
TadanoriOyama
Re: First Post: Introduction, Questions, and Musings
It's really about speed of transportation. Short range craft have a range of about 250,000 kilometers or something to that effect. Those are good for day to day transportation. But between planets?
Say you want to go from Luna to Mars. Depending on orbital positions it's between 60 and 400 million kilometers.
Even at 250,000 kilometers a day (over 10,000 k/hr) that's 240 days (8 months) to get from Luna to Mars when they are at their closest points. At their longest point it'd be over 4 years. And, of course, they don't hold still so you have to aim for where the planet is going to be when you get to it.
To make these traps in any kind of time (and it still takes months, especially in the Outer System) you have to expend great amounts of fuel, even when you consider the extremely effective fueling systems in EP.
—
[img]http://img845.imageshack.us/img845/9730/reintsuserbar.jpg[/img]
[img]http://img822.imageshack.us/img822/4205/nightcartelbanner.jpg[/img]
Thu, 2012-07-12 19:25
#26
TekHed
Re: First Post: Introduction, Questions, and Musings
Er...that still makes no sense. Even in modern space flight, it isn't like Star Wars where the engines are constantly burning. You burn a short burst of propulsion and then inertia takes over and spacecraft mostly just coasts/glides because there really isn't anything resisting it to dampen it's inertia...on top of that once you get going you could deploy solar sails to keep you accelerating even faster without burning fuel. Plus I am surprised that in EP they haven't figured out how to harness zero-point energy from "vacuum" yet...
So really, with fusion/antimatter engines a small brick or a few fuel rods would last you decades...
As for aiming to where the planet will be, that is the job of the nav computer/AI.
...still, the time involved is probably prohibitive for dramatic storytelling which puts us right back to egocasting/resleeving rendering once again the act of spending a lot of character generation resources on a morph an act of stupidity. Seriously one of the most fundamental tenets of good game design is "empower players and don't take away the things the paid good chargen resources for without a damn good reason or unless they can easily get it back."
If the first mission I go on robs me of the morph I spent 200+ CPs on because we have to egocast across the solar system I'd be pissed. It seems a disincentive. Better to just stay an infomorph with resources and connections and lots of skills that I'll get to take with me...
Thu, 2012-07-12 20:22
#27
Geonis
Re: First Post: Introduction, Questions, and Musings
Honestly, this is where you would want to bring up your concern with the GM and how he would handle said situation.
If you plan on spending 100 CP on a Reaper/Q-morph and 100 CP on credits to put all the bells and whistles on it, you better be sure the GM understands what you are going for and he is willing to allow said character in the game before you build him.
Optimization is largely going to differ based off how the sessions coming up are going to be played. How are irretrievable morphs going to be handled CP wise? What happens if I leave an expensive morph behind when I farcast? How effective will I be by just being a infomorph that rents bodies when needed?
There are probably dozen or more questions you should ask prior to finalizing your character, and the answers are going to vary depending on the narrative and story setting you will be taking place in.
If you are just making them for fun, make some basic outlines for yourself before you make the characters, however, don't expect them to work for a group you join as things will probably be different.
By building just by the rules as written, you are largely ignoring the ultimate rule, rules should not get in the way of the game.
Thu, 2012-07-12 20:41
#28
NewAgeOfPower
Re: First Post: Introduction, Questions, and Musings
That means nothing. Delta V is what matters for short transit times. How efficient are your drives? How much percent of your ship's mass are you willing to carry as reaction mass?
Just because a nuclear reactor can run for decades means nothing. Can a fusion torch run for years? Probably- but it would use reaction mass every second is was running.
Do you know anything about spacecraft propulsion/rocketry?
—
As mind to body, so soul to spirit.
As death to the mortal man, so failure to the immortal.
Such is the price of all ambition.
Thu, 2012-07-12 21:01
#29
TekHed
Re: First Post: Introduction, Questions, and Musings
Haha..you know I used to have this great pin that said, "why yes I am a rocket scientist." :D ...but no I am not. As an amateur though I can tell you that my first dream as a kid (before I grew up to be 6'8" with poor eyesight and ADHD :P) was to go into the military fighter pilot program, transfer to NASA and pilot the shuttle.
While that optionneer really was one, I did attend Space Camp and Space Academy as a kid/teenager and was in the top of my "class" both times, so I do know a bit.
...but what I know is not really so applicable and neither is conventional rocket propulsion science which requires liquid or solid fuel to be burned and not atom sized bits of matter for fusion or antimatter.
For the tech of EP I can imagine the reactors they have must be pretty amazing...I mean if you can have a fusion reactor [i]inside your body[/i], having one that powers a ship is no big deal. Again, you really don't need much mass to generate a LOT of power through fusion. And, of course the solar sail system is theoretically supposed to be pretty awesome too, allowing for constant acceleration.
Thu, 2012-07-12 21:20
#30
The Enemy
Re: First Post: Introduction, Questions, and Musings
Even if your tech is pretty darn good, there are simply limits put on you by the laws of physics. While a solar sail doesn't need any reaction mass, it also has nearly nil accelleration/less power as you go further away from the sun. Not to mention, it probably won't be able to work going towards the sun/suitable source of light, anyway.
http://www.projectrho.com/public_html/rocket/index.php/ This is usually a good place to start, as is the spacecraft section of the manual, as well. While you can "burn and coast" all you want, it won't really get you anywhere fast. To the point that you take years, and it'd be faster to grow a body at your destination, then egocast to it. Probably be less expensive, too, with how much a spacecraft costs in this setting.
(( That said, I'd love to do a plot with the characters fixing up a tin can hab in low earth orbit, just above the killsats, then putting a engine on it and starting to do more salvage work, to get it to be good/safe enough to dock to a cycler, just gradually improving it. Probably the best way to do it without breaking the bank, but you won't be going anywhere fast with it. ))
Ah well. I rambled on again.
—
Insanity is the Spice of Life.
Gun-totin Texan.
Thu, 2012-07-12 21:25
#31
TekHed
Re: First Post: Introduction, Questions, and Musings
Yeah, I really get that EP is the kind of game where you can never really be prepared or optimized for what will go down. Even taking aside the myriad of ways things could go wrong you have no way of planning for, there is of course the horror element of the game which is another way of saying, "Players, expect the worst to go down," "GMs...unleash your inner sadist." :)
Of course every character should be more or less tailored to the game and involve interaction with the other players and the GM to get a bead on what type of game everyone wants/is going for, and to make something that will be a.) compatible and b.) effective (which is really at the heart of non-cheese-mongering practical optimization).
Still, one of the best ways for me to grok a new game is to make a few characters in the beginning, and think up what kinds are interesting/inspiring to me. This inevitably evolves and changes over time....when I first came back to DnD 3.x after having given up on AD&D 2nd edition in favor of the cerebral horror of the oWoD games, it took me awhile to really nail the system. I would make characters and then 3 months down the road realize that I did something terribly inefficient or chose something I never used, so the DM if they were nice would let me rebuild the character or come up with a new one "knowing what I know now."
Thu, 2012-07-12 22:59
#32
NewAgeOfPower
Re: First Post: Introduction, Questions, and Musings
Read The Enemy's post right above your own.
You can have a miniature radioactive-decay powerplant; like the ones found in the Voyager probes
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radioisotope_thermoelectric_generator
built into your body. I don't recall Transhumanity being able to put in a Fusion plant into your body... And I've read the source books, multiple times. Our group even owns the core book in hardcopy...
It doesn't matter if you only need to 'burn' 1 or 2 grams of Hydrogen/Antihydrogen to produce a crapload of energy- because that energy doesn't convert itself into propulsion. REALITY IS NOT LIKE STAR TREK.
Transhuman ships use that energy to shoot out mass... it's still rocketry...
The "best" ships posessed by Transhumanity 10 AF are Courier boats. They take weeks to cross the solar system, and probably carry around half their mass as Reaction mass (depending on exhaust stream velocity)...
Much faster than Fusion Torch, Antimatter Drive is still slow compared to EgoCasting...
—
As mind to body, so soul to spirit.
As death to the mortal man, so failure to the immortal.
Such is the price of all ambition.
Fri, 2012-07-13 12:28
#33
Decivre
Re: First Post: Introduction, Questions, and Musings
I personally rule at my games that cyberware and nanoware blueprints (as well as robotic enhancements) are bought separately from the morph, but also must be purchased tailored for that morph. So for example, if I buy armor enhancement blueprints for my Reaper, I can use those blueprints on any Reaper (of a similar model), but cannot use it on a Synth.
However, any person with knowledge of morph design and programming nanofab blueprints can alter them for use with other morphs.
With a high enough rep, credits are unnecessary.
Kind of up in the air. Ships are uncommon enough and valuable enough that most people aren't going to sell them to you. And their costs are probably measured minimally with 6 figures.
—
Transhumans will one day be the Luddites of the posthuman age.
[url=http://bit.ly/2p3wk7c]Help me get my gaming fix, if you want.[/url]
Fri, 2012-07-13 15:37
#34
TekHed
Re: First Post: Introduction, Questions, and Musings
What I am hearing is that it is not truly a post scarcity economy then. In a post scarcity economy everyone would have everything they need and want. That is the definition of abundance...so...ships for all!
...especially if as you say credits become meaningless with a high enough rep, then what does it matter how "pricey" a ship is for those still living in a scarcity model?
Is it better to buy up rep with one faction, or to spread it around? I know I start with 50 free rep, though that doesn't go too far. Better to sink it all into one faction, or spread it thin?
I'm still not buying the seperate blueprints thing...if you can build anything from the molecules up, it eems a waste to have to do so, then install things. A true blueprint should be able to incorporate any design you want, essentially rendering all the "implants" as an integral part of the design. Of course this would mean that you can only make that one design, andas you say would not be able to "break out" an implant blueprint for use in a different morph/design.
Fri, 2012-07-13 16:45
#35
Madwand
Re: First Post: Introduction, Questions, and Musings
Reading between the lines, there are two ways I see synthmorphs getting upgrades:
The first, as you say, is starting with the blueprints for morph and a compatible upgrade. Once you have these, you use programming (nanofabrication) to merge the blueprints into one, continuing with as many upgrade blueprints as you have. Once you have your final blueprint, you print it out as normal.
But what do you do if you want to add an upgrade later? The book doesn't really say. For a biomorph, you step into a healing tank for a few hours. For a synthmorph, it *should* be easier. If you have medichines and the blueprint for your upgrade (including any changes needed to make it work for your specific morph) you should be able to just program the medichines to fix the "damage" due to not having that upgrade. Alternatively, just print yourself out a new morph. In some cases, a protean swarm might be able to do the upgrade for you.
Fri, 2012-07-13 18:33
#36
DivineWrath
Re: First Post: Introduction, Questions, and Musings
I suppose you'll also say that God could not be omnipotent. If it was omnipotent, there would be no object too heavy for it to lift, yet being omnipotent also means that it should be able to make objects too heavy for it to lift, a logical contradiction. You'll be right... in a way. Many philosophers have debated this problem and their best conclusion has been, that an omnipotent God would be able to do everything that was possible, but not things that would lead to a logical contradiction. God either could not make a rock that was too heavy for it to lift, or there would be things that God could not lift. There could never be an instance where both were true.
The same thing applies to democracies and post scarcity economies. They may have a definition that says one thing, but reality doesn't make it easy or possible to achieve. What is produced is some state of compromise that adheres closely to the definition while remaining practical to use. To that end, democracies (rule by the people) don't have everyone ruling, but instead have elected representatives doing the ruling for you. Likewise, post scarcity economies have most of the mechanisms needed to produce everything a person could ever want, the only limitations is the availability of mater and energy... and the concerns of well being by others. So unfortunately for you, ships for all are not yet possible. Plus there are other demands beside ships such as bodies for all and enough living space for all.
Right now, I'm looking at wikipedia right now and one the sections mentions unavoidable scarcity. You might want to look it up, since you are talking about things not being post scarcity.
Fri, 2012-07-13 19:08
#37
TekHed
Re: First Post: Introduction, Questions, and Musings
Welll....ships=more living space.
From a survival standpoint, humans need to have some kind of diaspora to avoid another Fall leading to actual extinction. I'm thinking along the lines of Frank Herbert's Dune series (and on a side note, Furies remind me of the elite all-female guard in that series.)
And yes...in a sense there is some technical level of real actual scarcity, with certain elements that are rare or simply distributed too far away or otherwise too unreachable to be practical, but these are of course rare.
Part of my interest is that I have been looking into real life theories of post-scarcity, intelligent resource management economies, where everything is designed to be super durable, maximally efficient, and distribution is controlled by super computers such that every person literally has access to anything they could need or want, money becomes irrelevant and an obstacle to progress (since nothing gets done without the profit motive...that is why it is better in a profit based monetary system to NOT cure disease or permanently solve problems, or design things to last) and where the people controlling the money supply via interest actual bog down the system by consolidating all the wealth (removing it largely from circulation) without actually contributing any real value back into the system.
Fri, 2012-07-13 20:48
#38
Decivre
Re: First Post: Introduction, Questions, and Musings
Post-scarcity isn't an all-or-nothing affair. While the means of production is definitely post-scarcity (as is software), resources aren't. The ability to manufacture on an nanoscale does not change the fact that antimatter is hard to produce and contain. It does not change the fact that certain minerals are more scarce than others. It does not change the fact that energy-rich resources are not a dime a dozen.
Even today, information is already post-scarcity. The means to produce a copy of a file is negligible, and that means that almost any value you place on digital information is Forced ARTificial Scarcity. But computers are not post-scarcity, and you need one to get access to this post-scarcity environment.
Plus you have to remember that not all of the system is really in a post-scarcity state. The Junta explicitly makes nanotech rather illegal, making the post-scarcity benefits of nanomanufacture relatively inaccessible to the average citizen. I'm sure this is true in many other places as well, especially in the inner system.
Depends on what you're doing with your character. Spreading out your rep means that you can find resources and assistance no matter where you go. Focusing on one rep system means that you can only really get help from one group or collection of groups, but can get access to much bigger favors much easier.
That would be a terrible way to design blueprints.
I mean think about it. Lets say you create an awesome synthmorph. You have a basic synth design, tricked out with the best military tech and stealth components your money can buy. It's perfect for living in the harshest parts of the outer system. And the best part, you have the blueprints to create more of them wherever you happen to go, ensuring that you can egocast and have your favorite body no matter what.
So you egocast to some part of the inner system, and you go (in infomorph form) to a nearby CM store to get your body fabbed for a fee.
Problem: half of your morph is crazy-illegal, and there's no way you could hand in those blueprints.
So you go back, and you decide to get a more legal variant for your favorite morph. Another problem: you have the morph and all its enhancements in a single blueprint. That means you have to buy whole new blueprints from scratch. You're going to be dumping an insane amount of money simply because you wanted everything in a single set of blueprints.
On the other hand, should you have had the enhancements in separate blueprint files, you could have simply avoided handing in those blueprints at the CM center, allowing them to manufacture a legit variation of your favorite morph without the illegal aspects installed.
Besides, why would you have to manufacture everything separately? Why wouldn't nanofacture devices be designed for utilizing blueprints together as modular chunks? Computers already do this today with code (that's how DLLs basically work), so why wouldn't CMs take advantage of this as well?
—
Transhumans will one day be the Luddites of the posthuman age.
[url=http://bit.ly/2p3wk7c]Help me get my gaming fix, if you want.[/url]
Fri, 2012-07-13 21:23
#39
CodeBreaker
Re: First Post: Introduction, Questions, and Musings
Another advantage to having multiple moderately high rep/networking scores is that you can gain access to multiple same level favours within a favours cooldown rate. Being able to get an assault rifle as a favour means very little if it takes you another week to get some armour without burning rep.
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Fri, 2012-07-13 21:32
#40
TekHed
Re: First Post: Introduction, Questions, and Musings
Um...the whole solar system is available...heck just tapping into a fraction of the asteroid belt with self-replicating nanofactories means an abundance of raw material.
If you have the ability to split/fuse atoms, then doesn't *any* material become "energy rich?"
Granted, I'm not the scientist IRL that some here seem to be and I am still only just barely scratching the surface of the game both in setting and mechanics.
Fri, 2012-07-13 22:23
#41
Decivre
Re: First Post: Introduction, Questions, and Musings
But [i]you[/i] have to have access to those nanofactories and [i]you[/i] have to be in the asteroid belt in order to benefit.
No. Both require power to produce their power-generating processes, and some elements require more power to start the fusion or fission reaction. If the power required is more than the power produced, then it isn't worth doing to generate energy. And that's all avoiding other factors like shielding and containment.
—
Transhumans will one day be the Luddites of the posthuman age.
[url=http://bit.ly/2p3wk7c]Help me get my gaming fix, if you want.[/url]
Fri, 2012-07-13 22:40
#42
CodeBreaker
Re: First Post: Introduction, Questions, and Musings
Also the whole being terrified of many things that could be hijacked by the TITANs. Fairly sure seeding large amounts of space with automated nanofactories might fall into that.
Plus, Transhumans cannot even setup a scoop system on Saturn. They tried. Failed. Good chance they would screw something up when doing other macro projects as well.
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Fri, 2012-07-13 22:57
#43
Madwand
Re: First Post: Introduction, Questions, and Musings
Wait, where did this come from? Page 158 of Panopticon specifically mentions that skimmers are used to mine atmospheric gasses. Or does "scoop" mean something different?
Fri, 2012-07-13 23:03
#44
CodeBreaker
Re: First Post: Introduction, Questions, and Musings
They use skimmers because the original mega project failed. The original intention was to have a big pipeline attached to station on the surface that would have made the skimmers obsolete. It's mentioned in the core rulebook.(pg 106)
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Sat, 2012-07-14 01:02
#45
Decivre
Re: First Post: Introduction, Questions, and Musings
A scoop is effectively a massive large-yield skimmer. It's the difference between a building elevator, and a space elevator.
—
Transhumans will one day be the Luddites of the posthuman age.
[url=http://bit.ly/2p3wk7c]Help me get my gaming fix, if you want.[/url]
Sun, 2012-07-15 03:57
#46
Arenamontanus
Re: First Post: Introduction, Questions, and Musings
Yes, at the price of a hackable infrastructure that could become an extinction level threat. Recent horrors have made people vary of this for very good reasons.
Not really. It is a bit like that most everyday materials can be burned for energy, yet most of the time we do not consider them very suitable for the fireplace (ever tried to burn a metal plate or plastic chair?) Fission only becomes effective if you can have chain reactions, and fusion efficiency drops a lot for heavier atoms.
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