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Cleaning House: What Stays and What Goes During Social Development within Transhuman Motives.

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LordNephets LordNephets's picture
Cleaning House: What Stays and What Goes During Social Development within Transhuman Motives.
If you have seen any of the other topics I have posted in/created, you are probably familiar with my tendency to ask a question or propose a point for discussion, without proposing any particular answer, so that the community can find one (so I hope). Here goes another shot at that. Currently, I have been getting involved with some Transhuman-themed works of enjoyable fiction. Namely, I have just finished my playthrough of the Video Game "Deus Ex: Human Revolution" and am currently reading through Robert Heinlein's novel "Starship Troopers" both of which are marvelous works of art and I recommend them to any who have not experienced. Anywho, I began thinking of the changes within society that take place due to an ever-changing technological world. Certainly, our society is one that is changing to a large extent in the realms of morality, technology, politics, and economy. A surge for clean energy versus cheaper fossil fuels, proposed political rights for minority groups, and the ethical repercussions of such actions, the list goes on. It is undeniable that humanity and society is changing, has been changing for some time, and will change more in the future. As is stated, the ultimate goal of Transhumanity is to better the Human experience of life, and as such, there are certain changes that must be addressed and made in order for Humanity to improve. The question is: In a Transhuman world (not necessarily that of Eclipse Phase, but the Eclipse Phase saga can be referenced of course), numerous social conventions will be changed or even removed (ideas such as language, religion, politics, and psychology are highly subject to these changes): which elements are necessary to be removed and changed, which elements of change should be embraced, which elements are unnecessary to be removed or changed but may become so, and which elements are necessary to be kept in their current state for the betterment of humanity overall? Also, to what extent does "hanging on" to old world or even current world values impede the progress of humanity, and to what extent does it educate and better humanity, i.e. does holding onto an older notion such as Chivalry impede or better humanity, is a person who holds on to such ideals an impediment to human expansion and betterment, and are other older notions such as Classical music and art equally as impeding?
All sciences are now under the obligation to prepare the ground for the future task of the philosopher, which is to solve the problem of value, to determine the true hierarchy of values.
DivineWrath DivineWrath's picture
Re: Cleaning House: What Stays and What Goes During Social ...
Define better. To be blunt, there is no single road for humanity to follow, and there is no single outcome that is the only better one. Lets take the hedonism road. Since hedonism is always compatible with moral good, one could take a number of short cuts to try to develop a "better tomorrow". For instance, they might decide to create a seed AI to maximize pleasure. Assuming that nothing goes wrong (unlikely but possible), not all humans will be satisfied with the outcome. For instance, the intellectuals and religious folk might have serious problem with this future. However, the intellectual perfect future might be a total bore to a hedonist. Edit: I have more to say later, but I'm busy right now.
Arenamontanus Arenamontanus's picture
Re: Cleaning House: What Stays and What Goes During Social ...
A lot of things don't need removal as much as refinement. We don't want emotions to cloud our judgement, but we do want to have passion. We want better memory, but not just photographic memory but the ability to remember what we should remember and forget irrelevant things. We want longer lives and immortality, but not just more time to exist but an existence worth having. And so on. But there are a few things that I think we can or should drop. We don't need wisdom teeth or an appendix that can easily be infected (its minor functions can be taken over by other systems). We don't need cruelty - we might need assertiveness and even aggression, but we should not derive enjoyment from the suffering of other beings. There are some things that are tricky to drop. Sleep is a good example: we don't fully understand what it is good for, but we know it is highly conserved across evolution - it must be important, especially since sleeping creatures are very vulnerable. We would be much more productive without it, yet we place a high value on it (actually, sleep itself isn't enjoyable for the most part, it is the going to sleep and waking up rested parts that are truly good). My view is that transhumanity will explore a lot of directions to see what works. A lot will be dead ends or lead to very peculiar modes of life, but some will have general applicability. We cannot predict well in advance which are going to be which, just like we could not predict what the Internet would turn into.
Extropian
nezumi.hebereke nezumi.hebereke's picture
Re: Cleaning House: What Stays and What Goes During Social ...
I'd recommend you check out Holy Fire by Bruce Sterling. It's not a great piece of work, but it really focuses on the growing pains of a transhumanist society. I think a major part of EP is the break from the limitations of our physical bodies. There is no difference between male and female olympics (or bathrooms or most anything else) because the equipment implanted in your morph will almost always be built around your priorities, mindset, desires, etc., rather than vice versa. Women won't be on average shorter unless they WANT to be shorter. There's no reason to respect age because the elderly are no longer so fragile, and no longer have a monopoly of critical experience and information. While this is very freeing for people who feel restricted by their size, age, gender, disabilities, race, etc., it's also a blow against tolerance. Now, if someone is different from you, it isn't just a case of 'well, he was born different, but he's still a human just like me'. He wasn't born different. He was born like you. The reason he's different now is because he has chosen to be different from you. Flats' tolerance of sylphs will be like democrats' tolerance of republicans. Even if you're in a place like Locus, you have the ability to censor everything you disagree with (and most likely, this will happen, whether you want it to or not. Already media providers are realizing we as consumers believe sources we agree are 1) more enjoyable, 2) more truthful, and 3) better avenues for self-betterment. They know it now, and they'll know it then. But with a muse in your head, they'll be a LOT more effective.) People you disagree with will seem to just disappear, and should you be forced to deal with them, they'll seem like raving lunatics compared to the relative peace you normally enjoy. I think Sterling had it right in his Mechanist/Shaper series. We'll become more insulated, until we're locked into clades. The differences between us will become starker. There's also the problem that, as Arementorous points out, many of our advances are a little risky. But when a new hipocampus upgrade means the difference between being a millionaire or not, people will take those risks on the off-chance of greatness. The rich will continue to get richer because they already have access to the best doctors and researchers. For the rest of us, it'll be a crapshoot, with a lot of people getting permanently marred by implants which just don't pan out like they should, and a lot of people going the route of extreme modification just to keep afloat.
LordNephets LordNephets's picture
Re: Cleaning House: What Stays and What Goes During Social ...
The above post really points out a lot of the concepts that came about within Deus Ex: Human Revolution, i.e. class difference. In an augmented world,essentially a new race of human is bred, the augmented transhumanist, and naturally there will be many who oppose those people. People who do not believe in implants will feel that augmented people are terrifying perversions of nature trying to play god and become better than everyone else. Naturally, this could cause severe violence as augmented groups become prejudiced towards other groups, and are prejudiced against. Additionally, the class difference is a big deal. In the world of Deus Ex, a powerful drug called Neuropozyne has to be administered to augmented humans in order to stop side effects and rejection syndrome caused by the implants. The drug (and the augmentations) were very expensive, and thusly the rich are free to better their lives, while the poor (if they can afford an implant) often have to turn to drug lords or other unsatisfactory means to stop death from rejection syndromeu. Naturally, transhumanism is going to start a whole slew of problems that need to be addressed. I stray from topic a bit though, let me clarify my point. My original question was motivated by my Philosophy professor, who was talking about advancement in art. Stating that artists like Picasso, even if you don't like their work, are revolutionary artists (or were) and that true art comes from self-expression and the creation of new styles. When you bring something new and creative to art, you are being a good artist. I can't argue against this. However, he stated that works such as Michelangelo's and other Renaissance (and pre Renaissance) artists could not be viewed as "true art" because they were commissioned works with little to no personal creation, that brought nothing new to art. I argued that the skill required to paint a "Madonna and Child" on canvass by one of these artists was immense, and certainly more respectable than the statement made by Duchamps "Fountain" (no matter how funny it was). My professor stated that in an evolving world, holding onto notions such as classical art only slows progress, and is equivalent to holding onto outdated religion and philosophy. What's the general Transhuman perspective?
All sciences are now under the obligation to prepare the ground for the future task of the philosopher, which is to solve the problem of value, to determine the true hierarchy of values.
Decivre Decivre's picture
Re: Cleaning House: What Stays and What Goes During Social ...
LordNephets wrote:
Anywho, I began thinking of the changes within society that take place due to an ever-changing technological world. Certainly, our society is one that is changing to a large extent in the realms of morality, technology, politics, and economy. A surge for clean energy versus cheaper fossil fuels, proposed political rights for minority groups, and the ethical repercussions of such actions, the list goes on. It is undeniable that humanity and society is changing, has been changing for some time, and will change more in the future.
I'd even argue that many changes are coming at an increasingly faster rate, and often society changes much faster than nations and laws can keep up.
LordNephets wrote:
As is stated, the ultimate goal of Transhumanity is to better the Human experience of life, and as such, there are certain changes that must be addressed and made in order for Humanity to improve. The question is: In a Transhuman world (not necessarily that of Eclipse Phase, but the Eclipse Phase saga can be referenced of course), numerous social conventions will be changed or even removed (ideas such as language, religion, politics, and psychology are highly subject to these changes): which elements are necessary to be removed and changed, which elements of change should be embraced, which elements are unnecessary to be removed or changed but may become so, and which elements are necessary to be kept in their current state for the betterment of humanity overall?
Tough to say, and it heavily depends on which direction you wish the human race to head. Transhuman ethics and goals are going to be heavily affected by the moral and political leanings of the people that ascribe to transhuman philosophies.
LordNephets wrote:
Also, to what extent does "hanging on" to old world or even current world values impede the progress of humanity, and to what extent does it educate and better humanity, i.e. does holding onto an older notion such as Chivalry impede or better humanity, is a person who holds on to such ideals an impediment to human expansion and betterment, and are other older notions such as Classical music and art equally as impeding?
The answer to this depends on what we mean exactly when we say "hang on to old world values"? For instance, the exact rules of Chivalry and Bushido might not be a good idea for the future, but the concept behind it… the idea that a person in a position of authority should be held to stricter rules and a higher standard… is not a bad one. In that same vein, art and music are heavily inspired by the art and music that comes before it. Even when it comes from an older culture, or even from a place of unacceptable morality in the context of today, it can still be used as inspiration for something new and good.
Arenamontanus wrote:
There are some things that are tricky to drop. Sleep is a good example: we don't fully understand what it is good for, but we know it is highly conserved across evolution - it must be important, especially since sleeping creatures are very vulnerable. We would be much more productive without it, yet we place a high value on it (actually, sleep itself isn't enjoyable for the most part, it is the going to sleep and waking up rested parts that are truly good).
To be fair, much of the same can be said about mortality. I mean how many films and Aesop-filled shows have portrayed immortality as the saddest and most depressing thing you could ever wish for? Plus, mortality exists on a near-universal rate throughout the animal kingdom, with only a few creatures (sea turtles mainly) assumed to be [i]possibly[/i] immune. But we acknowledge mortality as a bad thing. Would it necessarily be so bad to do the same with sleep?
Transhumans will one day be the Luddites of the posthuman age. [url=http://bit.ly/2p3wk7c]Help me get my gaming fix, if you want.[/url]
Arenamontanus Arenamontanus's picture
Re: Cleaning House: What Stays and What Goes During Social ...
LordNephets wrote:
My professor stated that in an evolving world, holding onto notions such as classical art only slows progress, and is equivalent to holding onto outdated religion and philosophy. What's the general Transhuman perspective?
How do you tell what is outdated? I think the typical case is that you see that the effects the thing is supposed to achieve are no longer achieved. Bushido was supposed to maintain a certain social and mental order, but the social order was changed by external factors. Same thing for chivalry: with the crossbow and musket, and the non-feudal armies they allowed, the chivalric code did not achieve its ends. Surrealism once caused outrage, fascination and a greater awareness of the subconscious, but today it is fairly pedestrian: we have largely learned its lessons, and surrealism is also outdated to some extent. Consider the human condition today. We are living in vast groups - cities, nations, corporations - where the social software that helped us function in small tightly knit communities (Dunbar number of contacts, status hierarchies, family circles of concern, xenophobia) doesn't help us, and actually increases the risk of trouble. We evolved to gorge ourselves on calories when available since famine was always likely, but now we have an obesity problem thanks to this adaptation. Our pair-bonding lasts much less than our new extended lifetimes, and children stay with their parents far longer than in the past: we need to strengthen our bonding to stay together and reinvent the maturation process to take in enough useful experiences to become adults. These are just top of my mind. And none of them are very futuristic. When you add enhancement, space living, radical life extension, backups, virtual existence, forking and post-scarcity economics plenty of other things become outdated. But it is not so much that large chunks of human life suddenly become obsolete, but rather that patterns and structures need to be renegotiated. Indefinite lifespans requires continual reinvention of life projects - fixed identities become outdated, yet we want to retain various forms of personality cores for the future. Indefinite lifespans makes incumbents potentially very powerful, which might make indefinite appointments or tenure untenable if you want a dynamic society. Families get strung our along time in new ways, requiring reinventing those relationships (how are you supposed to feel about your great-grandchild when you both look and feel the same?)
Extropian
Prophet710 Prophet710's picture
Re: Cleaning House: What Stays and What Goes During Social ...
I really like Arena's take on this and agree with it. There are a bit too many variables to really tackle this one question with a one topic, finite answer. However, one thing that is true is the ethic of refinement. To honing your skills on a commissioned piece of art to genetic therapy, refinement is the name of the evolutionary gain. In the end, one way or another, no matter how much time it takes, said refinement of said scenarios is going to inevitably benefit everyone. Sure it will be more available to those who have the immediate assets first, whether they be political clout or financial backing, but history has showed macro-trickle down to be inevitable. Edit; more to say just at work
"And yet, across the gulf of space, minds immeasurably superior to ours regarded this Earth with envious eyes. And slowly, and surely, they drew their plans against us."