Xagroth wrote:

Decivre, please do take into account that in EP stuff happens. Like "anybody with a healing vat, time and resources can wire up a CM and produce any morph". As in, imagine, for example, Gorgon. If they have been around for more than 5 years, I bet their first inversion was on healing vats... You can bet the Ultimates do that, just with Remades. Not to mention that in reputation-based zones it is easier to get the expensive morphs. And that yeah, street policemen might use even a splicer or an infomorph, but the big business of the Planetary Consortium will have the best geared guards, not only because it projects wealth and strength, but because it is good advertising.

As of right now in the setting, the production of biomorphs is more difficult than that. For reasons not yet explained, a biomorph cannot be rapidly manufactured merely by nanomanufacture; it takes a 3-year harvest to create one. We can argue the in-setting justifications for it, but so far as we know, that is a hurdle that has yet to be crossed by technology in 10 AF. So furies aren't that easy to get ahold of, at least for now.

Xagroth wrote:

Finally, a small point about morph cost: a huge chunk of the Fury's credit cost comes from the +1 action implant (call me old fashioned, I still think of them as Sandevistan 1! XD), and an olympian buying one would close its cost so much to the Fury to be almost meaningless.

True, but there is still a large cost gap. A fury costs significantly more than an olympian does (a fury's minimum cost is double the average cost for an olympian), so much so that it potentially puts it out of reach for the middle-class consumer. Even an olympian is likely a major investment, equivalent to purchasing your first hour or a brand new car today. It's not really a purchase to be scoffed at.

otohime1978 wrote:

How about you keep your mouth shut about something you know absolutely nothing about.

I apologize if I offended, but you were the one who brought the topic up. Why don't you try to avoid raising discussion that you know is going to get you angry. If you don't want anyone to talk about it, then don't do it yourself.

@Decivre is correct, 'bearing it' is the name of the game for a lot of the denizens of Eclipse Phase, the indentured infomorphs, those stuck in case bodies, even those Firewall sentinels who end up sleeved into unlikely bodies for the sake of a mission. The point is that the game itself espouses freedom of choice, people will choose to sleeve into sexless bodies, or even bodies of the opposite gender for the sake of pay and knowing that they have other options - i.e psychosurgery to take the edge off any unpleasant sensations. At worst they would retain an open account with some good quality psychosurgery to help them de-stress, and at best the advanced medical technology and ability to tinker with one's own hormone settings (depending on mesh inserts/body mods) would allow them to reign in control of any feelings that would leave them feeling alienated. This isn't to say that the problems you discuss are always going to be addressed, just less likely that they will pop up in every circumstance. Also we should probably imagine that a lot of the knee-jerk homo, trans and other sexual-preference related phobias are less likely to show up in such an advanced culture. Especially among autonomist groups (e.g Scum), and even in the inner system where diversity of sexuality equals easy money. I'll grant that bioconservative hell holes like Jupiter would likely still be problematic, and there there would still be heavily biased memes against diversity among some brinker groups, not to mention old-earth cultural strains. But one likes to think that overall that the EP universe is inherently more evolved.

Kowalzcky, what you suggest is actually correct, accurate, and sadly quite useless: players are extremely likely to get their bodies in the "second-hand market" than getting them from the production vat (at least, if they are egocasting. If the adventures happen all inside a planet's orbit or outside of egocasting services like gatecrashing campaigns, then they can be in their "own" bodies). So they are going to end up with the looks the master rules are avaiable, or they will have to wait some hours and pay extra for some quick biosculpt (that really good connosieurs will notice). So, essentially, the discussion is about the "generic model", not the customized one. Because if we go to the customization part, I would rule very quickly that modifying a Fury's "hardware" (that is, closing the vagina, removing the breasts, and adding a mechanically functional penis, with a scrotum and etc..., just blocking hormone production) is an operation that will cost the equivalent to 500-750 credits and 3-4 hours inside a healing vat. Hell, I just was a VERY imaginative Vicissitude user in the old World of Darkness, so I'm full of "customization" ideas XD

Prophet710 wrote:

Keeping with the corporate marketing thematic, I would say that there is a whole other line of male furies in the mix. Probably even neuter just to market to a specific niche.

Not that part of the thread again... already discussed without consensus one page (or two XD) back...

Xagroth wrote:

Kowalzcky, what you suggest is actually correct, accurate, and sadly quite useless: players are extremely likely to get their bodies in the "second-hand market" than getting them from the production vat (at least, if they are egocasting. If the adventures happen all inside a planet's orbit or outside of egocasting services like gatecrashing campaigns, then they can be in their "own" bodies). So they are going to end up with the looks the master rules are avaiable, or they will have to wait some hours and pay extra for some quick biosculpt (that really good connosieurs will notice). So, essentially, the discussion is about the "generic model", not the customized one. Because if we go to the customization part, I would rule very quickly that modifying a Fury's "hardware" (that is, closing the vagina, removing the breasts, and adding a mechanically functional penis, with a scrotum and etc..., just blocking hormone production) is an operation that will cost the equivalent to 500-750 credits and 3-4 hours inside a healing vat. Hell, I just was a VERY imaginative Vicissitude user in the old World of Darkness, so I'm full of "customization" ideas XD

hmm Well my point was more or less that probably it will be harder to find a "generic" model, as we understand it today, than a previously customiced one, probably including the biomods and hardware; there are not for most of the morphs a generic look as we use it, but now re-reading my post I noticed that I got quite lost in the introduction to my idea and completelly forgot about the conclusion! XD Let me try it again, "generic morph" means that you are using a morph that looks like everyone without real style looks in that hab at the moment("I was into long arms and six fingers before it became mainstream"), if you want an "out of the box" model you will look like an unfinished model, or a car without painting and you will never find one unless you buy it new. I think that in the Eclipse Phase setting, as you said no one use a completelly generic morph, because is SO easy to mod it, so if you are renting or buying a previously used morph you´ll get a non standard looking or "out of the box looking" model, previously customiced by someone else. Its more I think that anyone using a completelly out of the box model will look quite weird or at least give the impression of being complete looser. About using augmented reality; I think only people that will use that morph for just a very short time, short enought to not spending 3 or 4 hours in a very very easy procedure, maybe while you are passing the customs or the adaptaion process in VR, anyways below the AR you´ll get a customiced morph. Another thing that just came to me now, is that maybe there are some morph rental companies that use some kind of generic customization for all their models as base apearance, like corporative image I supose, but for just a few more credits they can give you a more specific look, or maybe they do not give this service and dont allow you to change the morph.....again you need to create a look for each company. Or if you are using morph brokerage you may not be allowed to mod the morph, it can be quite rude to give the morph back making the owner to remod it! or at least you must pay again the "decustomization" process. There isnt a cocrete generic look, most morphs reflect the individuality of the user, or the personal choice of the private employer, or the corporative image the corp owner of the morphs want to give; for example maybe a monolithic corp like FaJing gives all her security persolar an strict code of apearance for their employes morphs, but other corps completelly forbid to use a "generic out of the box" encouraging individuality(betwen some marging of course) So if you are using a completelly new out of the box morph that probably will look weird, like a todays car without painting. I see those morphs just as templates for the future owners fo mod builded with the easiest to mod facial and corporal features. Furies out of the box, athletic but nothing more and not much more than an olympian, sylphs generic body not too toned not to fat but with perfect body proportions and perfect simetry, like fresh clay for you to model it, splicers....like the other ones but cheaper so they have less perfect proportions, less eficient muscles and bones.... rusters, I never thougth all of them to be red, maybe some models, but seriously who is going to keep that kind of "corporate brand" longer than the reesleeving process unless you want it for an specific reason, maybe just a little bit wider chest. And common for all morphs out of the box, soft an average facial features for making easier for you to mod them. Of course there are morphs like the remade that will look as a remade but just because is clearly inhuman, but maybe in a scumbarge that diference isnt clear anymore! For me the "generic" look, probably will be something like is for us today wearing clothes sold by a cheap big seller, you know like when you see verybody wearing that darn shirt that Zara(biggest clothe shop in my country) is selling this month, thats the "generic" look for me in 10AF. As GM sometimes I mess with the players with that, "so do you want a "thought looking fury morph? ohh sorry seems that there are only those Lolypop chainsaw themed fury morphs, it was really fashionable last month and there is a big excedent of them.....the regular fury ones, closer to what you want are not abaliable right now" or "ok all of you got new bodies but as you did not want to pay the extra all your bodies look very alike with the last September trend" then describe to them some extravagant look like cat ambar eyes with green skin and neon pink hair, yes that was the most "in" the last month in Extropia, or maybe in some place with 0g it was fashionable morphs without legs!(like in that book hot line from ophiuco) cheaper sure....practical not at all! My house rule, the less the player want to pay the less the body will fit their expectations, so they finally will need to pay more for the later customization In conclusion, there are no generic in 10 AF as we undertand it, there are out of the box look easyly recognizable as completely new but not much more, and it probably will attract alot of attention over you, "hey look at that looser he is not even able to get his own apearance" In the few campaings I GMed I used it in that way, thought a theme as the current fashion for that hab, that was the generic look, no matter the body(ohh yes you have a sylph and you are smoking hot, but unless you desribe what makes your diferent, you look like the herd, maybe just a little better than the regular looser) you can remark the weirdness of that outer system hab describing the nameless mass as all of them using some uniform weird fashion, or that you dont see two egos riding an slightly similar morph completly rejecting the concep of "generic". So Xagroth, take advantage of your "customization" ideas and use them as the "generic" look in an habitat to remark the tone, think a custom look for all those Solaris employees and make clear that all Solaris employees all around the system look exactly the same every hour every day of their sad "sarariman" life. Do you want to know the kind of morph that ego is using? try in his public profile, look into the mesh and if you really want to be sure try a DNA test, proably you can identify some markers fo well known manofactures, but for the look? that probably cannot be done in most cases. I hope this time it makes a little more sense!

Being attached to a morph works all good and well when you don't work in a physical job that takes you all around the system (such one where you can't be an infomorph for a meeting and then return). For most people, I imagine it is quite possible to be very attached to the morph they are using. For player characters, depending on the campaign, it could be very bad.