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The Mesh: IAmA/AMA

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Sat, 2012-06-23 18:53

bRA1N-b0X

The Mesh: IAmA/AMA

(In case I'm being too cryptic in the subject/title of this thread, I'm referring to some of the format found in Reddit. IAmA = "I Am A..." and AMA = "Ask Me Anything." I just plan to make Mesh-related inquiries or suppositions and see where any resultant discussion may lead. Of course, there's no reason anyone else shouldn't feel free to ask their own questions. I like to consolidate subject matter, as much as possible, which includes any direction available to related topics elsewhere in the forum or anywhere else.) 1. What naturally occuring phenomena emit and/or receive and properly interpret radio waves? Are there any known biological means that can do this? Could there ever be and what would be required to do so? It sounds a little like wi-fi biology. From what I understand, Mesh inserts are "built" with nanotechnology along with the development of the brain, during morph manufacture. What I specifically wonder about that is if there is any indication whether or not that integrated computer (essentially) is biological or inorganic in composition. At first glance, I would imagine it was a biological construct. This would probably have such inserts free from rejection by the organism (morph), being constructed with the host's own DNA in its formation. I certainly don't put the concept of biological computer and communication devices in the Eclipse Phase setting as beyond their technology to accomplish. I just wonder if there's already thought and/or work in our time and just what it might take to be available in our own future. 2. Can the Mesh ever crash? The core book stresses how the Mesh is never down, in italic emphasis. Obviously, that's a pretty confident statement, which does seem a perspective anyone in that setting would intrinsically have. That would also be why introducing a scenario where the Mesh were to actually crash and/or go offline, the impact on its local users would truly be horrific. There are two ways that I think may also further be important factors to consider that may have different consequences. If the Mesh could be jammed (which I think is mentioned and seems the most likely of the two) then people would still have the simplicity to find the source of the jamming effect and worry less of permanent effect. The storage and basic infrastructure would be intact, but primarily be unreachable. If the crash were to be a vast reboot or a collapse of that very infrastructure, then I would imagine a much more catastrophic event. We might be able to hope that it's just a "RAM" sort of thing, where a reboot would basically sort the thing out, without permanent damage of important data and its storage, but there would be some catching up to repair progress that was "floating about" prior to the crash. All those infomorphs would stand to be isolated. Worse would be a system crash that required a flush and reinstallation. A lot like Windows or something, I guess. Anyone want to speculate on these scenarios? :)

Sat, 2012-06-23 19:24

Geonis

Re: The Mesh: IAmA/AMA

1.a."There are radio disturbances on earth from atmospheric noise and sun flares, and electromagnetic noise caused by natural phenomena such as cosmic noise, movement of the earth's crust and so on." 1.b. basic mesh inserts are cybernetic brain implants. (Page 300) 2. The mesh is based off of a peer to peer network of nodes, it is design to be not centralized. Most covered on page 236. To effectively take down a mesh, you would need to take down all nodes, two active nodes could constitute an active mesh.

Sat, 2012-06-23 23:57

Decivre

Re: The Mesh: IAmA/AMA

bRA1N-b0X wrote:
1. What naturally occuring phenomena emit and/or receive and properly interpret radio waves? Are there any known biological means that can do this? Could there ever be and what would be required to do so? It sounds a little like wi-fi biology. From what I understand, Mesh inserts are "built" with nanotechnology along with the development of the brain, during morph manufacture. What I specifically wonder about that is if there is any indication whether or not that integrated computer (essentially) is biological or inorganic in composition. At first glance, I would imagine it was a biological construct. This would probably have such inserts free from rejection by the organism (morph), being constructed with the host's own DNA in its formation. I certainly don't put the concept of biological computer and communication devices in the Eclipse Phase setting as beyond their technology to accomplish. I just wonder if there's already thought and/or work in our time and just what it might take to be available in our own future.

I'm guessing it's traditional circuitry, interlinked with the human brain. Biological computers might be a bit beyond the technology of the time, if only because meat (so far as we know) is very slow in comparison to silicon. That said, psi has hints of converting the mind into an advanced computer. So if the people of 10 AF were to understand its workings better, they might be on their way to doing exactly what you're talking about.

bRA1N-b0X wrote:
2. Can the Mesh ever crash? The core book stresses how the Mesh is never down, in italic emphasis. Obviously, that's a pretty confident statement, which does seem a perspective anyone in that setting would intrinsically have. That would also be why introducing a scenario where the Mesh were to actually crash and/or go offline, the impact on its local users would truly be horrific. There are two ways that I think may also further be important factors to consider that may have different consequences. If the Mesh could be jammed (which I think is mentioned and seems the most likely of the two) then people would still have the simplicity to find the source of the jamming effect and worry less of permanent effect. The storage and basic infrastructure would be intact, but primarily be unreachable. If the crash were to be a vast reboot or a collapse of that very infrastructure, then I would imagine a much more catastrophic event. We might be able to hope that it's just a "RAM" sort of thing, where a reboot would basically sort the thing out, without permanent damage of important data and its storage, but there would be some catching up to repair progress that was "floating about" prior to the crash. All those infomorphs would stand to be isolated. Worse would be a system crash that required a flush and reinstallation. A lot like Windows or something, I guess. Anyone want to speculate on these scenarios? :)

One of the major advantages of a mesh network is the pathway redundancy inherent in its design. Unlike our current internet, there are no need for routers, and likely no need for DNS servers and other centralized components. Every single node and system attached to the mesh will act as a router for every other node and system. So the only real way to take down the mesh would either be some insanely-powerful malware (like the Exsurgent virus), or some means of shutting down every system simultaneously. Because if even two systems stay up, they have the ability to mesh with one another to stay networked, so long as they are in transmission range.

—

Transhumans will one day be the Luddites of the posthuman age. [url=http://bit.ly/2p3wk7c]Help me get my gaming fix, if you want.[/url]

Sun, 2012-06-24 05:29

Pyrite

Re: The Mesh: IAmA/AMA

This does bring up an interesting point: What is required to jam a large area to the degree where mesh access is effectively eliminated beyond skin contact? If I wanted to down a habitat's mesh, what's the smallest device I could smuggle in to put out that kind of signal? What would a ship need to be able to project that kind of interference? Jamming is an important plot device, but it's also important in Eclipse Phase that it be used within the limits of known science.

—

'No language is justly studied merely as an aid to other purposes. It will in fact better serve other purposes, philological or historical, when it is studied for love, for itself.' --J.R.R. Tolkien

Sun, 2012-06-24 08:34

Decivre

Re: The Mesh: IAmA/AMA

Pyrite wrote:
This does bring up an interesting point: What is required to jam a large area to the degree where mesh access is effectively eliminated beyond skin contact? If I wanted to down a habitat's mesh, what's the smallest device I could smuggle in to put out that kind of signal? What would a ship need to be able to project that kind of interference? Jamming is an important plot device, but it's also important in Eclipse Phase that it be used within the limits of known science.

The difference between a jammer and a transmitter is largely about purpose: both transmit a signal, but one is designed to send relevant information while the other is designed to send worthless noise. Even today, you can probably change any wifi-equipped laptop into a jammer with the right software. So you can assume that any jammer has a range equivalent to a transmitter of similar size. As I have mentioned previously on this board, there are some drawbacks to jamming. A jamming signal is easily detected (the point of jamming is to be loud and obnoxious, blocking out all other signals; so of course this is the case), which means that if the local authorities have the means to triangulate (and I promise they do), it will only be a matter of time before they find your jamming signal. The other drawback is that jamming is a huge power draw… you have to propogate a signal powerful enough and in enough frequency bands to drown out all other signals, and that's going to eat a lot of juice. Plus, some radio transmitters might not have been designed for that signal load in mind, and might overheat or get damaged in the process (but future tech might make this a non-issue).

—

Transhumans will one day be the Luddites of the posthuman age. [url=http://bit.ly/2p3wk7c]Help me get my gaming fix, if you want.[/url]

Sun, 2012-06-24 09:00

Arenamontanus Arenamontanus's picture

Re: The Mesh: IAmA/AMA

There are radio emissions from a lot of things: the sun, the ionospheres of planets (especially Jupiter), lightening, plasmas, electrical equipment, sparks and of course the myriad radio-transmitting devices people make. Most are not a communications problem since the comms happen at a particular wavelength that is likely "quiet". Jamming the mesh can likely be done in two main ways: by filling the right frequencies with noise, or by filling the Mesh with noise data. The first I would assume is not too hard: zapper rounds do it, and one can imagine spreading devices that drown out the mesh signals well enough with radio noise (or even retransmit signals with inverted phase). I would imagine pocket-sized devices able to handle a room and bigger man-portable jammers with at least a few hundred meter's range. The second method is essentially about filling all available bandwidth, ideally with sufficiently plausible packets that the devices cannot tell whether they are spam or valid signals that should be passed on. Either you use a device that is constructed for this kind of jamming, or you set up DDOS software elsewhere to bombard the local mesh with information. The smart adaptive aspects of the mesh likely makes jamming a bit harder than in current networks, since the mesh devices can figure out where to migrate their transmissions to increase their connection.

—

Sun, 2012-06-24 12:10

bRA1N-b0X

Re: The Mesh: IAmA/AMA

It may be possible, but likely very difficult, to compromise the Mesh and have it turn against itself. Transporting code might be rather easy, depending on whether travel was done via egocast or vehicle. I'm not sure how rigorous, especially in autonomist/anarchist habs, the anti-virus decontamination process may be. It depends on just how obvious the code is, probably. I'm far from a programmer. It would likely be hard to really predict what code will be like in Eclipse Phase, considering programmable matter, consciousness, biology, etc. What if a single cell in a morph had this exploit code, easily disguised as 99% like any other cell of its kind? One might be able to decentralize the code within the entire morph's make up, and have the "trigger code" dispersed in like manner, with all of that only coming together under very specific circumstances. Which, I guess, is part of my interest in any biological means of radio emission/reception or not. Err, this trojan code would basically be interested in converting all transmitting inserts/devices became their own enemies, turning into their own jammers by "simply" having them pour signals and information beyond capacity, bringing eachother down. I think that's quite like an Exovirus, but it may certainly not have to be. I don't think this has to be a Basilisk hack, since it's not interested in harming the people it jams, merely shutting down connections or instigating a Mesh-wide wipe and reboot.

Sun, 2012-06-24 13:20

Geonis

Re: The Mesh: IAmA/AMA

Theory crafting here. Firstly, the mesh is more along the lines of the medium which all devices communicate. The mesh infrastructure is peer to peer based, meaning you need to block communications between the all the peers or hit every single device to communicates. Now, blocking the radio waves, assuming they all operate on different variant of waves to stop them from interfering with each other, would be a more feasible, if not difficult task. Than accounting for other mediums of communication, such as microwaves and lasers, blocking radio signals alone wouldn't take down a mesh, only limit it. You would have to broadcast a high spectrum, multi-layered interference of radio,laser and microwaves covering all 'channels'. Another effective method would be compromising each device, which entails cracking the firewall on each, bypassing anything that will be actively be monitoring it such as Muses, AIs, AGIs or Infomorphs. Not only that, but the virus/malware/trojan would have to be universally adaptable to deal with each variant of software/OS/what-have-you that runs on each device. Another problem comes from the fact RFIDs are everywhere, even food has edible chips that are transmitting. They may not even handle inbound traffic and only broadcast. These, and in the Eclipse Phase time, there maybe further complications to account for we cannot even perceive from our current tech level. Honestly, it would probably be easier to just pull the 'Deus ex machina' of the Eclipse Phase setting and say it was TITAN tech based that some hacker/group got a hold of.

Sun, 2012-06-24 13:43

bRA1N-b0X

Re: The Mesh: IAmA/AMA

Geonis wrote:
Honestly, it would probably be easier to just pull the 'Deus ex machina' of the Eclipse Phase setting and say it was TITAN tech based that some hacker/group got a hold of.

While I don't discount the suggestion, another dimension to this issue is the convenient scapegoat the TITANs make. Any sufficiently diabolical attack or blunder could, say, provide a terrorist group, amoral hypercorp experiment gone wrong, or whatever, might believably be attributed to the TITANs. It may keep many from delving into the deep horror they might feel if they discovered certain TITAN technology was within the grasp of transhumanity. Not just finding and using it, but actually being able to manufacture it right at the present time. That would be dire news, indeed.

Sun, 2012-06-24 15:17

#10

Geonis

Re: The Mesh: IAmA/AMA

Quote:
While I don't discount the suggestion, another dimension to this issue is the convenient scapegoat the TITANs make. Any sufficiently diabolical attack or blunder could, say, provide a terrorist group, amoral hypercorp experiment gone wrong, or whatever, might believably be attributed to the TITANs. It may keep many from delving into the deep horror they might feel if they discovered certain TITAN technology was within the grasp of transhumanity. Not just finding and using it, but actually being able to manufacture it right at the present time. That would be dire news, indeed.

Agreed, I was implying, avid poorer than I thought, that the technology employed may have been TITAN based, does not mean it was TITAN controlled or not a altered. Now on using it for horror, a few quotes to keep in mind. "The oldest and strongest emotion of mankind is fear, and the oldest and strongest kind of fear is fear of the unknown" “Never Explain Anything” If you are going for horror, give hints, and let them postulate but never directly reveal. Just because you are using TITAN tech for your 'behind the scene' rational, doesn't mean you need to tell them.

Sun, 2012-06-24 16:00

#11

Decivre

Re: The Mesh: IAmA/AMA

bRA1N-b0X wrote:
While I don't discount the suggestion, another dimension to this issue is the convenient scapegoat the TITANs make. Any sufficiently diabolical attack or blunder could, say, provide a terrorist group, amoral hypercorp experiment gone wrong, or whatever, might believably be attributed to the TITANs. It may keep many from delving into the deep horror they might feel if they discovered certain TITAN technology was within the grasp of transhumanity. Not just finding and using it, but actually being able to manufacture it right at the present time. That would be dire news, indeed.

Except your idea of a biological radio jammer does definitely fit more in line with exsurgent or TITAN technology. At the very least, you can base this on some alien artifact discovered on an exoplanet.

—

Transhumans will one day be the Luddites of the posthuman age. [url=http://bit.ly/2p3wk7c]Help me get my gaming fix, if you want.[/url]

Mon, 2012-06-25 16:06

#12

The Doctor The Doctor's picture

Re: The Mesh: IAmA/AMA

Pyrite wrote:
This does bring up an interesting point: What is required to jam a large area to the degree where mesh access is effectively eliminated beyond skin contact? If I wanted to down a habitat's mesh, what's the smallest device I could smuggle in to put out that kind of signal? What would a ship need to be able to project that kind of interference?

Assuming RF, one would need fairly high transmission power (possibly kilowatts to get around the inverse square law, as well as signal degredation due to the environment) on as many channels as possible (to get maximum use of the signal spectrum splitting a band into channels and using a subset of them simultaneously would make sense, especially in the information rich world of Eclipse Phase). One would also need to broadcast pink noise generated with a sufficiently complex circuit to frustrate error correction and retransmission algorithms. I don't know how large it would be in EP, so I will start from my own research and work forwards from there. I would think that a suitcase-sized transmitter (large enough for high voltage components and cooling fans) with a dozen quarter-wavelength antennae and a fairly strong power supply would be required. Now, moving forward, I would hypothesize that spray-on antennae that radiate on harmonics as well as the channels' core frequencies could be scattered around a habitat and connected to a high power transmitter and noise generator... taking into account the room-temperature superconductors mentioned in the core book and super-capacitors for power supplies... the size of a baseball (allowing for convective cooling around heatsinks)? My BTC 0.02 (check MtGox for latest exchange rate).

—

[img]http://drwho.virtadpt.net/graphics/info_userbar.jpg[/img] [img]http://drwho.virtadpt.net/graphics/argo_userbar.jpg[/img] [url=https://drwho.virtadpt.net/graphics/blankbadge.png][img]http://drwho.vir...

Sat, 2013-05-18 11:56

#13

OneTrikPony OneTrikPony's picture

So how (in)accurate are the

So how (in)accurate are the Radio Jamming rules as presented on page 262? Is is realistic to be able to use one's own mesh inserts to completely block the signals of another? Per page 299 mesh inserts have a range of 1000m what would be thier effective jamming range? Given the architecture of the mesh is Selective jamming realistically possible?

—

Mea Culpa: My mode of speech can make others feel uninvited to argue or participate. This is the EXACT opposite of what I intend when I post.

Thu, 2013-05-23 17:27

#14

The Doctor The Doctor's picture

bRA1N-b0X wrote:2. Can the

bRA1N-b0X wrote:
2. Can the Mesh ever crash? The core book stresses how the Mesh is never down, in italic emphasis. Obviously, that's a pretty confident statement, which does seem a perspective anyone in that setting would intrinsically have. That would also be why introducing a scenario where the Mesh were to actually crash and/or go offline, the impact on its local users would truly be horrific. There are two ways that I think may also further be important factors to consider that may have different consequences. If the Mesh could be jammed (which I think is mentioned and seems the most likely of the two) then people would still have the simplicity to find the source of the jamming effect and worry less of permanent effect. The storage and basic infrastructure would be intact, but primarily be unreachable. If the crash were to be a vast reboot or a collapse of that very infrastructure, then I would imagine a much more catastrophic event. We might be able to hope that it's just a "RAM" sort of thing, where a reboot would basically sort the thing out, without permanent damage of important data and its storage, but there would be some catching up to repair progress that was "floating about" prior to the crash. All those infomorphs would stand to be isolated. Worse would be a system crash that required a flush and reinstallation. A lot like Windows or something, I guess. Anyone want to speculate on these scenarios? :)

It depends on what you mean by that. A crash is a system locking up and going nonoperational. Networks do not do that, but their constituent nodes can and do. Also, nodes can remain online but the links connecting them may be compromised Knocking a mesh network offline depends on the specific implementation of the mesh - is the broadcast collision domain shared between all participating nodes (i.e., clients and nodes share the same frequencies and thus form a contiguous collision domain)? Do clients share one collision domain, nodes another collision domain, and never the two shall meet because nodes have multiple radios? Do the collision domains of clients of neighboring nodes overlap? Are clients of the mesh and nodes of the mesh one and the same? How is addressing handled? What are the address spaces? How are addresses chosen? How much bandwidth per channel, how many channels? What routing algorithms are used to route traffic through the mesh? Is the mesh fully connected or not? All of those questions asked... it depends. Jamming would be the easiest way of taking a mesh offline. Determine what frequency or range of frequencies are used by the nodes' radios and broadcast noise on them. If clients are on one collision domain and nodes on another, one or both could be jammed - jamming clients leaves the infrastructure up and running while leaving users locked out, the opposite isolates clients into small cadres while infrastructure nodes cannot communicate. (D)DoS attacks are also a possibility. Broadcast flooding is a very real threat - flood the broadcast address(es) of the mesh with something to use up all the bandwidth. Flooding a critical service on the mesh (like name resolution) will do the same thing, affect every node on the mesh, and win you style points at the same time. You could stand up your own rogue nodes to snarf as many network addresses as possible and squeeze everyone else out. The possibility of finding a vulnerability which results in nodes crashing is a real one but to really take down a mesh, it would have to be comprised of a monoculture of implementations and versions extant, and that statistically does not happen. On the other hand, it might be possible to partition a mesh by knocking out enough nodes to isolate segments of the network (effectively making multiple smaller meshes that are disconnected from one another). Not a complete DoS, I will admit, but it would be an effective strategy under certain circumstances, and very irritating under other circumstances.

—

Thu, 2013-05-23 17:44

#15

The Doctor The Doctor's picture

Pyrite wrote:This does bring

Pyrite wrote:
This does bring up an interesting point: What is required to jam a large area to the degree where mesh access is effectively eliminated beyond skin contact?

It depends on the kind of jamming.

Pyrite wrote:
If I wanted to down a habitat's mesh, what's the smallest device I could smuggle in to put out that kind of signal? What would a ship need to be able to project that kind of interference?

You would need a device with sufficient broadcast power (and the correct kind of emitter - let us assume RF for the moment) to swamp the spectrum that the mesh's constituent nodes use for communication. The inverse-square law is not friendly here, so a fairly hefty transmitter (with corresponding power requirements) would be necessary. Eclipse Phase has nuclear batteries, so those could be used to power the jammer but circuitry to generate the right kinds of signals with sufficient power would be fairly large. Micro-miniaturized circuitry would not work here because the kind of power necessary would vaporise it. Some years ago, a museum I visited had an exhibit of electronic warfare apparatus through the ages. I recall seeing a fairly modern one (or a mockup thereof) which was about as long as a car and around two feet in diameter, and was designed to interfere with RF over a city. I have no idea what its power requirements were. In Eclipse Phase, I would carefully speculate that a single device about the size of a suitcase with the right kind of antenna might be able to jam the mesh of a single habitat (assuming a white or pink noise, or a modulated signal jamming strategy). Due to signal propagation weirdness and positioning of solid objects there might be isolated pockets of connectivity, but those pockets would be limited to perhaps one or two nodes and everybeing huddled around it - they would be effectively cut off.

—

Thu, 2013-05-23 17:47

#16

The Doctor The Doctor's picture

OneTrikPony wrote:So how (in

OneTrikPony wrote:
So how (in)accurate are the Radio Jamming rules as presented on page 262? Is is realistic to be able to use one's own mesh inserts to completely block the signals of another?

Of another user? Entirely possible. Of a few nearby users? Also entirely possible.

OneTrikPony wrote:
Per page 299 mesh inserts have a range of 1000m what would be thier effective jamming range?

Houserule it to the same range and be done with it. It makes the math easier.

OneTrikPony wrote:
Given the architecture of the mesh is Selective jamming realistically possible?

It is. It is done now as an electronic warfare tactic.

—

Fri, 2013-05-24 12:10

#17

NewtonPulsifer NewtonPulsifer's picture

Wide spectrum jamming is the

Wide spectrum jamming is the audio equivant of yelling. So if you're having a 60db conversation with someone, and someone equally close talks very loudly at 80db, you won't be able to communicate without raising your voice. 20db difference is 100 times the energy, 10 times the pressure. So partly your ability to overcome jamming noise is your own power output (you out scream them). So high output transmitters can shrug off jamming, but low power ones are more easily silenced. This isn't always feasible, though, as sensitive receivers can be damaged by very high transmissions (the blown eardrum) so would have to reduce their sensitivity (fingers/hands over the ear equivalent), making screaming unproductive. Another trick is directional communication (like making a horn with your hands equivalent - for either your mouth or ear for that matter). Reduce the area of your transmission by 10x thinner and 10x shorter (and aim at the receiver) you get 100 times less area, or an effective 40db increase. So anyway, as you can see if you accept a 100x power output to drown out a conversation, that implies you can jam at 1/10th the normal conversational range maximum. So 100 meters for a 1km radio. EDIT: Cube root of 100 is divide by 4.64 not 10 times. Oops. Call it 1/5th (200 meters) EDIT2: According to this NATO paper only some jamming works in a 1:1 ratio, and others require up to 1000:1. So some types of jamming will work at 216 meters, and other jamming will only work at 21.6 meters, and only if you can juice the output by 1000 times (which is more like the output range of about 2x (so 2 cubed=8 times the power of) the "small" on the chart on page 299. vs mesh inserts - a 5x range implies a 5x5x5=125 times power output for equal quality antennas.) So if you want a quick and dirty rule, you can only thoroughly stomp someones radio signal if 1. You have a device higher on the "Radio and Sensor Ranges" chart on page 299. 2. You're within about 1/100th of the range of the next lowest tier. So for example, an ecto could thoroughly stomp wireless inserts at a range of about 10 meters. To be able to somewhat screw with their signal by jamming: 1. Have a device equal or higher than theirs on the device chart. 2. Range for this is about 1/5 the range, multiplied by 5 for every tier you're above them. 3. So an ecto could screw with the signal on all wireless inserts at a range of about (1km divided by 5 multiplied by 5) 1km. This is not the total signal stomp of the example above.

—

"I fear all we have done is to awaken a sleeping giant and fill him with a terrible resolve."- Isoroku Yamamoto

Tue, 2013-05-28 05:59

#18

OneTrikPony OneTrikPony's picture

Thanks Newton & The Doctor. I

Thanks Newton & The Doctor. I get the signal strength issues. But what about selective jamming of a frequency hopping device? Is is really possible to interfere with a single mesh device given the stated architecture of the mesh? What about OAM transmissions?

—

Mea Culpa: My mode of speech can make others feel uninvited to argue or participate. This is the EXACT opposite of what I intend when I post.

Tue, 2013-05-28 14:44

#19

NewtonPulsifer NewtonPulsifer's picture

OneTrikPony wrote:Thanks

OneTrikPony wrote:
Thanks Newton & The Doctor. I get the signal strength issues. But what about selective jamming of a frequency hopping device? Is is really possible to interfere with a single mesh device given the stated architecture of the mesh? What about OAM transmissions?

To be honest I can't say at all, but here's some speculation. There's low-strength signal electronic warfare, like my device claiming it is six different devices near you that would be happy to relay your mesh traffic and then dropping the data. Arguably this is "spoofing" according to the game rules, but it isn't really as the mesh relies on anonymous routing - no actual spoofing necessary. This sort of problem could occur just from a malfunctioning or misconfigured mesh device. Crushing a frequency hopping device is certainly possible, but would become quickly obvious you're being jammed (even a Muse's 40 Interface could probably figure this out quickly and probably locate the jammer if a single device). A handful of packets get out on each new channel, then *blam*. Not very subtle. As for the implications of using OAM I don't think that would make a difference (assuming the jammer has an OAM capable device too) unless you were measuring entanglement of the photons between the two devices. Possible sure, but implied to only work with farcasters in the game book. Right now with modern tech the state of the art with electronic warfare is tipping against jammers. This is implicit in the huge amounts of money that have been spent on stealth military technology. If you had awesome electronic warfare spoofers, stealth wouldn't be such a big boost to your effectiveness. I have no idea which direction things would go by the time of EP. I'm guessing the mesh relies on so many low power emitters that pass data through friendly mesh neighbors with much more powerful radios that it would be relatively easy to screw with people in Eclipse Phase. Take a person meshing in the parking lot - their signal is likely to be picked almost immediately picked up by a car's mesh radio as its parked and picking up electricity from the inductive coil buried under its parking spot. Have a jammer one step more powerful than that car (probably equivalent to radio booster in the car) relatively close (or with a very directional antenna pointed directly at your victim) and you can pretend to be a dozen cars that are closer (and thus trap/crush their signal).

—

"I fear all we have done is to awaken a sleeping giant and fill him with a terrible resolve."- Isoroku Yamamoto

Tue, 2013-05-28 17:25

#20

The Doctor The Doctor's picture

OneTrikPony wrote:Thanks

OneTrikPony wrote:
Thanks Newton & The Doctor. I get the signal strength issues. But what about selective jamming of a frequency hopping device? Is is really possible to interfere with a single mesh device given the stated architecture of the mesh?

If you could predict the pattern of frequency hopping, and you had a directional antenna, yes, you could. It would probably be easier to DoS the device higher up the OSI stack, though.

OneTrikPony wrote:
What about OAM transmissions?

Orbital Angular Momentum multiplexing? I suspect that it is possible, but I do not know how.

—

Mon, 2013-06-03 14:05

#21

claive

Spray Mesh and Spray Jammers

How much does a can of spray "mesh foam" cost? In an area without a mesh, you spray the can on a power source and it generates a rudimentary mesh network. Could there be such a thing as a "spray jammer"? You spray someone with some nanite spray and they loose access to the mesh.

—

"No Labyrinth is Inescapable!" -Gantz

Tue, 2013-06-11 16:48

#22

The Doctor The Doctor's picture

claive wrote:How much does a

claive wrote:
How much does a can of spray "mesh foam" cost? In an area without a mesh, you spray the can on a power source and it generates a rudimentary mesh network.

...one hundred credits?

claive wrote:
Could there be such a thing as a "spray jammer"? You spray someone with some nanite spray and they loose access to the mesh.

Or jammer microbots suspended in a liquid - squirt jammers. Ugh. Griefing is never pretty.

—

Wed, 2013-06-12 17:50

#23

claive

claive wrote:Could there be

The Doctor wrote:
claive wrote:
Could there be such a thing as a "spray jammer"? You spray someone with some nanite spray and they loose access to the mesh.
Or jammer microbots suspended in a liquid - squirt jammers. Ugh. Griefing is never pretty.

Griefing? I just want to prevent the target or their muse from calling the authorities as I snatch and grab them.

—

"No Labyrinth is Inescapable!" -Gantz

Sun, 2013-06-16 11:52

#24

Decivre

claive wrote:Griefing? I

claive wrote:
Griefing? I just want to prevent the target or their muse from calling the authorities as I snatch and grab them.

Just note that jammers are, by design, obnoxious and easily tracked. Even if this person fails to get a call off to the authorities, the authorities might still be on their way to a reported mesh disturbance. Some food for thought.

—

Transhumans will one day be the Luddites of the posthuman age. [url=http://bit.ly/2p3wk7c]Help me get my gaming fix, if you want.[/url]

Fri, 2013-07-26 02:39

#25

Erenthia

A nearby nuke, not close

A nearby nuke, not close enough to do damage but close enough to create an EMP should severely harm the mesh, since all the antenna in the area would drastically lose effectiveness. The lowered capacity combined with the sudden increase in demand should render the mesh largely inoperative. On the other hand, if you're coming at this from a player-perspective, what you want is a very powerful computer virus that will lock down every device it infects. An AGI with 90 Infosec should pretty much cover it.

—

The end really is coming. What comes after that is anyone's guess.