I guess I should have never included kickstarter at all, as everyone pointed out, it is kinda silly.
Though I still want to play a Roguelike based on the EP universe or something near it. Spacestations etc etc..
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Roguelike
Sun, 2012-06-10 00:12
#1
tRens
Roguelike
Sun, 2012-06-10 00:51
#2
DivineWrath
Re: Kickstarter
Are you asking for someone to make an Eclipse Phase project? As in a GM or player? I don't think the license will allow for that, because that might be considered a for profit activity.
As for the devs, they're busy enough as is, making new EP products of all things. They don't need kickstarter to do that. They might need it if they were making a 2nd edition of Eclipse Phase, but its too soon for that.
In any case, the devs are probably know more about the license and their plans than I do.
Mon, 2012-06-11 16:25
#3
Prophet710
Re: Kickstarter
what medium are you looking for? Animation projects or video game projects?
—
"And yet, across the gulf of space, minds immeasurably superior to ours regarded this Earth with envious eyes. And slowly, and surely, they drew their plans against us."
Fri, 2012-06-22 07:57
#4
tRens
Re: Kickstarter
I wasn't very clear with this post. I meant something like a roguelike roughly based on EP of course for free.
Fri, 2012-06-22 14:52
#5
nezumi.hebereke
Re: Kickstarter
If it's for free, how would they ask for money for the kickstarter?
Are you imagining more game books. adventures, or other things?
Ultimately though the question is, if you think it's a good idea, why aren't you doing it?? I'm a contributing author to the Eye (and I may continue to kick some stuff out now that the eye is shutting down, if I can find an easy route to my audience). It's not something you need a college degree for :)
Fri, 2012-06-22 15:09
#6
tRens
Re: Kickstarter
I am all over the place. I just want to play an eclipse phase rogue like.
Forget kickstarter
Fri, 2012-06-22 15:10
#7
tRens
Re: Kickstarter
Double post
Fri, 2012-06-22 15:25
#8
Geonis
Re: Kickstarter
I feel Eclipse Phase would make for a poor roguelike.
The threat of perma-death would be nullified.
The combat would be extremely deadly and fast, each foes could end up killing you in one good shot.
Also the random based system would fit poorly with how the skill system can interact.
The only thing that fits really is the turn-based system, even than a lot would need to be gutted to fit the 'you move, they react' style of game play.
This, and the meat of eclipse phase, its setting, would largely be ignored in a dungeon crawler.
There are already plenty of great roguelikes out there, to make this one stand out would be hard.
Fri, 2012-06-22 19:39
#9
Decivre
Re: Kickstarter
The biggest problem is investment. Eclipse Phase is still a brand new setting, and it still has a ways to go in terms of getting its name out there. Until you have authentic interest from major parties, you probably won't see anything along the lines of a game or film based in the setting.
The Creative Commons license might also be a bit of a hindrance as well. Some major film and videogame companies might not be keen on the idea that their potential big-budget project is "pirate-friendly".
But in specifics towards a game, I can see the design of a videogame being relatively hard for something like Eclipse Phase. Unless it's a relatively confined game, taking place in only limited areas with relatively limited mechanics.
—
Transhumans will one day be the Luddites of the posthuman age.
[url=http://bit.ly/2p3wk7c]Help me get my gaming fix, if you want.[/url]
Sat, 2012-06-23 02:18
#10
DivineWrath
Re: Kickstarter
I have given some thought into the mater, but it would be no simple feat no mater how you approached it. Making a video game is no simple mater.
I agree with you on that. It would have been quite difficult write the core rule book given the nature of EP. Even then, there are gaps in the rules. Trying to make a video game using only the fraction of the rules would be quite hard, let alone the complete setting. The rules cover a whole range of topics such as, cloning, hacking, microgravity, AIs (weak, strong, seed AI, muses), gates and exoplanets, very alien aliens, existential threats, space habitats, gene splicing, the mesh, etc.
Even if the setting was limited to something simple like an O'Neil Cylinder, or a domed habitat on mars, there is still a bit of work to be done. A single region would still have the potential to use most of the core rules. Resleving, the mesh, the market (in whatever for it takes), hacking, titan threats (like nano plagues or basilisk hacks), personal augmentations, muses, combat, etc.
There is also stuff that game does miss out on. I'm not going to make a list, as it'll be a bit of work to find the gaps.
However you limit it, it'll still need a team of dedicated programers to make something that might be usable.
Sat, 2012-06-23 11:47
#11
Decivre
Re: Roguelike
The hard part is figuring out what to base your roguelike on. Is it going to be a simple "randomly-generated exsurgent-infested habitat roguelike" game? Is it going to be "Gearhead-esque mercenary roguelike set in the Eclipse Phase universe"? Will it be "Decker-esque roguelike set in the mesh"?
Because unless you want a game that won't be finalized within the next 20 years, you have to pick a part of the setting to focus on.
Personally, if you want an Eclipse Phase-esque game that is sandbox, [url=http://www.playstarbound.com]I'd recommend checking out Starbound[/url]. I was a huge fan of Terraria, and playing that game against the backdrop of being a space traveler that flies from exoplanet to exoplanet is a damn awesome concept.
—
Transhumans will one day be the Luddites of the posthuman age.
[url=http://bit.ly/2p3wk7c]Help me get my gaming fix, if you want.[/url]
Sat, 2012-06-23 12:14
#12
tRens
Re: Roguelike
I seem to be spending all my time in DF and Caves of Qud lately. Just wish I had a spacestation to run around in and shoot beam weapons :) PEW PEW!
You should all check out Caves of Qud.. warning though it is addicting. I'd rather an EP game stay away from 3D graphics that leave no room for you to image.
Wed, 2012-06-27 04:46
#13
Klaim
Re: Roguelike
Having worked for some time on a project that would have been an eclipse-phase-like roguelike (but that have been cancelled), I can tell you it is the other way around. It is even refreshing and uber incredibly awesome what type of game mechanic you can derive in this kind of context.
The trick, as with any adaptation, is to not take every game mechanic exactly as they are in the book. The book is for tabletop pen&paper game, not for video game (whatever the type). It requires sometime removing rules, adding other or modification. See the best AD&D based games. None take the book to the letter.
No, it would be part of the game, meaning that you can die but in an hostile environnement so your only option is to be automatically reinstantiated at a previious backup, meaning that you ddon't know where and when you'll be reinstantiated, allowing quite a wide range of interesting changes to the world...
Well isn't it the point of a RogueLike to survive in an hostile context?
Anyway, that can be easily made in a way that forces the game to provide challenges instead of instadeaths. That would go a bit against the pure RogueLike idea, but it is better to make a good game than a pure RogueLike.
Why?
As far as I understand it would only make you loose time/turns when you have poor skills, that can be deadly if you are in time/turn limited context like a monster running on you.
I don't know, to me the context of EP is a big meta context in which you can easily build other interesting contexts.
I can think of tons of contexts within EP world that would be madness...err that would be awesome for a Roguelike.
However, to get "story", then it would be less a RogueLike and more a classic RPG (turn by turn or not). Going this way would be different and I think would make the game far harder to build than a mostly RogueLike game.
Making a game is always hard, but my experience to making such similar context in a roguelike tells me it would be incredibely awesome, if well thought.
It is too bad that I have other projects going on, I would have started a game project based on this licence (not for free) with pleasure. Maybe in a coming future.
Wed, 2012-06-27 09:06
#14
Decivre
Re: Roguelike
Agreed. If you were to make an Eclipse Phase roguelike, you might want to scrap large components of the game mechanics. Keeping the basic aptitudes and skills might be fine, but there's no reason to go with the percentile-based game system the tabletop runs on. Better to use some more complex algorithms to pull of the game's mechanics in a style more fitting for a videogame.
It would only really be useful if you actually planned a continuing game rather than your classical "one and done" style roguelike. Something like Gearhead or Decker, where your character carries on well after the quest is finished, for more quests. Death in an Eclipse Phase game such as that would essentially result in "all recent experience gains lost" rather than the deletion of your character.
Oh, but if you decide to play as a bioconservative, you can get a bonus hard mode where you play just like traditional roguelikes. Dead is dead.
Another option is to make the game more about information warfare than most roguelikes. Unlike the usual fare where you blindly fumble through a black map while it lights up during exploration, Eclipse Phase's roguelike could involve extrasensory equipment like X-Ray scanners and spy bots utilized to get a better field of view throughout the map. That way you can approach the threats present in a more tactically efficient way. Whereas in another roguelike, you might bum-rush a room and use any healing potions you might have; in Eclipse Phase you would X-Ray the room from the one adjacent, crack the door, throw in some plasma grenades, kick the door open and clean up whatever is left with your gauss rifle.
Amen to that. One of my favorite roguelikes is Decker, which is a game where you play a Shadowrun hacker in 2051. It's set in Shadowrun, but focuses on being a hacker exclusively. A good Eclipse Phase roguelike would do the same, giving us a taste of the setting but focusing on one element of it.
To be honest, trying to make a game that encompassed [i]all of Eclipse Phase[/i] would be a Quixotic target to aim for… like one of Peter Molyneux's promises.
—
Transhumans will one day be the Luddites of the posthuman age.
[url=http://bit.ly/2p3wk7c]Help me get my gaming fix, if you want.[/url]
Wed, 2012-06-27 09:34
#15
Klaim
Re: Roguelike
Actually I would have kept the percentile system as it is easy to balance, but I was more thinking about some of the tests that would be done in a more...playful way or be removed.
Actually in the game I was working on, one idea was that there would be a type of ennemy that would "hunt" you, both your physical instance and your backups and online instances (you could fork, that's also one awesome thing in a roguelike).
Also, diying with no backup would make you really die.
To balance the game then, being physically safe would be hard, and keeping yourself online would make some actions hard because they have to be done in the physical world (yeah you could navigate in virtual spaces and network too, so sometimes the best way to flee a physical ennemy would be to emergency-upload yourself in the local network...if it is safe).
I know there is a roguelike that happen always in the same world but when you die you start a new character in the same world just after the other character dies. That way you feel like you can see the past actions you have done in this world. However for EP based game, I think that some kind of deadlock or insane ressussitation loop would be more interesting.
OR you can use a context where there is now way you can have a backup.
The EP world setting is extremely permissive, like the whole post-cyberpunk litterature in fact. The hard part when dericing anything from it is to choose limits.
Wed, 2012-06-27 10:54
#16
nezumi.hebereke
Re: Roguelike
What is "roguelike"?
Wed, 2012-06-27 11:10
#17
Decivre
Re: Roguelike
Perhaps, but I think it would be better to use those numbers in a way unique to the roguelike. Much like how D&D games utilize D&D mechanics (those numbers you see are nearly identical to the tabletop game, but aren't operated on by the game engine in the same manner).
I'd say that's true with most settings. Even with D&D, you have to confine your players to the traditional dungeon-crawl and quest structure of the standard game. All these sorts of things start to fall apart when players are given the opportunity to be more freeform, and use the setting as more of a sandbox.
I suppose you could create a sandbox game for Eclipse Phase, but even then, you'd have to confine it to a region and limit the parameters.
A specific genre of RPG, inspired by the game Rogue. They are generally themed with randomized dungeons, exploratory gameplay, and a usually high difficulty setting (often with death meaning the deletion of your character). Many are low-graphics, with the traditional roguelike using ASCII art to represent everything. Many modern ones have graphics however. They vary widely in style and design. Diablo is traditionally considered a modern roguelike (especially if you play on hardcore mode in II and III), as is Torchlight and Fate. Other roguelike games include AngBand, Decker, Gearhead, Nethack and Rogue itself.
—
Transhumans will one day be the Luddites of the posthuman age.
[url=http://bit.ly/2p3wk7c]Help me get my gaming fix, if you want.[/url]
Wed, 2012-06-27 11:44
#18
Klaim
Re: Roguelike
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roguelike
This entry is complete enough, but if you are interested you can also find more details on this wiki: http://roguebasin.roguelikedevelopment.org/index.php/What_a_roguelike_is
Wed, 2012-06-27 12:41
#19
Geonis
Re: Roguelike
@Klaim, Thank you for those points. It has given me a bit to think over.
I suppose I am bit of a traditionalist in a sense, and do not see modern games like D2, D3, Fate or Torchlight roguelikes, but perhaps inspired by roguelikes. It could be my bias to a turn-based tactical thinking game opposed to a real-time reflex based game play for a roguelike. They never entered my radar as a roguelike.
While I see interfaces only as way to convey objects. As such, tiles versus ASCII have no bearing to me. Some people with disagree with my view on this however.
Lastly, to me there is also a huge difference to something based off something and inspired by something. I still hold EP would make a poor roguelike, as it stands. However, a roguelike that is inspired by EP could exist.
Either way, we all probably have different definitions of what the, very obtuse, genre known as roguelike is.
At this point we are just arguing semantics, so was my initial post in a way. Therefor, I will bow out in lieu of my poorly chosen points of disagreement.
Wed, 2012-06-27 20:23
#20
Decivre
Re: Roguelike
The problem with genres is that it gets very blurry as games blend concepts. Diablo maintains many of the elements of a roguelike game, with the key change being real-time gameplay. Sins of a Solar Empire is the same basic concept for 4x strategy games. It's tough to tell where a genre begins and ends, or what constitutes a part of it.
Tough to say. Many scenarios that are possible in Eclipse Phase might not be feasible in a roguelike game, but the basic setting and game concept potentially fit well. You play as agents that often hunt down creatures, often within potentially abandoned stations and facilities. Those elements alone fit a roguelike to a T.
—
Transhumans will one day be the Luddites of the posthuman age.
[url=http://bit.ly/2p3wk7c]Help me get my gaming fix, if you want.[/url]
Wed, 2012-06-27 21:48
#21
Tyrnis
Re: Roguelike
I think an EP Roguelike could be a lot of fun. Play a Firewall operative sent in to explore a massive TITAN research facility of some sort in which, much like Brak Kodel, human experiments have been found (so you've got ready made monsters and the occasional ally deep within the facility). You've got a small basecamp (the town level) to work out of, and which is the only place you can make backups -- if you're killed, you revert to your last backup and potentially lose gear, depending on the level of backup insurance you've bought.
Instead of a level-based system, I'd hope for a point-buy one -- you can buy up a skill or aptitude as soon as you had enough Rez. You gain rez by killing monsters, successful hacking, solving puzzles, and the like.
Equipment drops works normally, but implants can only be added if you've got access to a healing vat -- which you can go back to town for, or occasionally find within the facility. You can also change morphs (change base stats and innate abilities) at the body bank at the town, and you might even find an odd morph or two within the facility...but can you trust it?
You can get implants that lower the need for food, or if you're in a synthmorph, you don't have to worry about that (but synthmorphs can't gain psi-slights, and pay slightly higher prices in town due to the social stigma against them.)
I do see you walking onto empty maps as you go, but there are implants that expand your visual range, and you can find terminals that you can hack to access room maps or even one of the entire level, and sometimes terminals will have information files on the monsters that you encounter, telling you their capabilities, weaknesses, and the like.
Ah, if I were actually a programmer...
Thu, 2012-06-28 06:25
#22
Klaim
Re: Roguelike
Tyrnis, without any negative feeling, I just wanted to say that your description is not what I think is a good way to do it.
Basically, what you describe can work with almost any context, while I really think that a very EP specifc context would work better, make the game worth it just because it is different.
For example, the game I was working on (that I designed myself...) was both inspired by EP and the manga Blame!, exploiting a lot of the ideas from both and having very very particular game mechanics, even without considering the context. I cannot say more about it, but I think I have so ideas for a context that would be both unique to EP and awesome. And I am both a (game) programmer and a game designer. I would love to make another game (not for a company this time) like that, but I have other projects right now. :/
This is frustrating.
Thu, 2012-06-28 12:42
#23
Tyrnis
Re: Roguelike
Oh, I have little doubt that there are better ways to make the game -- that's just what springs to my mind when you give a hack and slash dungeon crawl an EP flavor. I take it you're under NDA on the game that you worked on, but are there any of the EP-inspired game ideas that you can mention without violating it?
Thu, 2012-06-28 14:09
#24
Klaim
Re: Roguelike
Well, EP have forking, separation of mind and body, different time flow in virtual spaces, nanotechnology, upcasting, remote (robot) control, muse (helping), perception filters, etc. I guess that already gives you a good idea of how awesome it could be.
Anything that make EP unique is something interesting (and that I was working on) in a video game. ;)