Red, red, red | Eclipse Phase

Mon, 2012-06-04 05:45

#2

Lalande21185 Lalande21185's picture

Re: Red, red, red

Overall, I liked it. I got a sort of gonzo Indiana Jones and the Raiders of the Lost Arc vibe from it, with a little body horror and political revolution thrown in to spice things up.

Arenamontanus wrote:
Please comment, so I can update and enhance the adventure.

Normally I wouldn't post this but, since you asked so nicely, I would feel guilty if I didn't (sorry if I seem hypercritical): On page 25: the woman in the picture (Akinyi Hendrikje?) is holding her guns improperly. If she fires one of her weapons while holding them like that, she is going to either hurt her thumb, stop the weapon from cycling properly (meaning she will have to rack the slide before she can fire again, which will be quite difficult as she is holding two guns), or both. I guess she could be cocking the pistol in her left hand for some bizarre reason (her gun does look like a 1911 which can theoretically be manually cocked like that, but it is not recommended), but the thumb on the right hand is definitely in the wrong place. Also the finger of her right hand shouldn't be on the trigger. Also, I noticed some typos: On page 1: the last line should be Red Red Red On page 8: on the second line, the type of weapon (grenades or missiles) was left off of Plasmaburst and Thermobaric. On page 25: at the top of the page, the word 'Weapons' should be in bold. On page 25: Under sleights, Ambience sense is missing the comma after it. Also, I noticed some things that might or might not be errors: On page 7-8, Gao has pistol rounds but does not seem to have a pistol to shoot them with. On page 7-8, Gao has plasmaburst and thermobaric seekers or grenades but does not have either Throwing Weapons or Seeker Weapons skills. On page 12, the Sandcrawlers initiative is listed as 100, which seems really high. On page 25, the seeker armband is noted as firing minimissiles instead of micromissiles and her equipment lists a single minimissiles instead of 4 micromissiles (custom equipment?).

—

[url=http://awdaberton.wordpress.com/about/]Eclipse Phase Adventures[/url]

Mon, 2012-06-04 08:09

#3

Arenamontanus Arenamontanus's picture

Re: Red, red, red

Lalande21185 wrote:
Overall, I liked it. I got a sort of gonzo Indiana Jones and the Raiders of the Lost Arc vibe from it, with a little body horror and political revolution thrown in to spice things up.

Ah, that was an angle I completely missed! But you are right, and in the light of one of the PCs (a slightly pulp-inspired Firewall operative) I should have seen it!

Lalande21185 wrote:
On page 25: the woman in the picture (Akinyi Hendrikje?) is holding her guns improperly. If she fires one of her weapons while holding them like that, she is going to either hurt her thumb, stop the weapon from cycling properly (meaning she will have to rack the slide before she can fire again, which will be quite difficult as she is holding two guns), or both. I guess she could be cocking the pistol in her left hand for some bizarre reason (her gun does look like a 1911 which can theoretically be manually cocked like that, but it is not recommended), but the thumb on the right hand is definitely in the wrong place. Also the finger of her right hand shouldn't be on the trigger.

Heh. Well, I have never been good with guns. In my defence, I was using a stock pose for the program Poser to set up the character. Of course, the picture might have been a completely fake publicity shot spread by Akinyi (or her Barsoomian enemies?) Thanks for the detail nitpicks, I will update them.

—

Tue, 2012-06-05 05:29

#4

Smokeskin

Re: Red, red, red

I find it extremely unlikely that EP pistols have slides - when you don't have to eject casings, having such a crude, slow and non-ergonomic solution makes little sense, even without EP tech. Check out the G11 rotary chamber design as an example, and that rifle started development over 40 years ago. EP pistols will probably cycle no way how you hold them, and they won't hurt your thumb unless you place it over the muzzle.

Tue, 2012-06-05 05:50

#5

Xagroth

Re: Red, red, red

Smokeskin wrote:
I find it extremely unlikely that EP pistols have slides - when you don't have to eject casings, having such a crude, slow and non-ergonomic solution makes little sense, even without EP tech. Check out the G11 rotary chamber design as an example, and that rifle started development over 40 years ago.

I am no gun expert, but regardless of the casing, remember that chemically-propelled bullets require to exaust the "gas", and that automatic weapons use that recoiling to rearm the firing pin. Of course, railgun variants won't have that problem at all, since they are just a particle accelerator on the macro scale for big chunks of hurty-things.

Tue, 2012-06-05 06:24

#6

Smokeskin

Re: Red, red, red

Xagroth wrote:
Smokeskin wrote:
I find it extremely unlikely that EP pistols have slides - when you don't have to eject casings, having such a crude, slow and non-ergonomic solution makes little sense, even without EP tech. Check out the G11 rotary chamber design as an example, and that rifle started development over 40 years ago.
I am no gun expert, but regardless of the casing, remember that chemically-propelled bullets require to exaust the "gas", and that automatic weapons use that recoiling to rearm the firing pin. Of course, railgun variants won't have that problem at all, since they are just a particle accelerator on the macro scale for big chunks of hurty-things.

Gas is exhausted out the barrel. EP uses electronic ignition, so there's no firing pin, but you do need to get a new bullet into the chamber. If they do that with gas or recoil like present guns or some powered mechanism we don't know. Railguns need to load bullets too, but they don't need to close the chamber so it is even simpler, and since the bullets are magnetic that's probably how they're loaded, unless the magazine doesn't just push bullets right onto the rail (though you'd need a feed regulator to be able to prevent a new bullet loading before the previous bullet has exited).

Wed, 2012-06-06 04:46

#7

Decivre

Re: Red, red, red

Xagroth wrote:
I am no gun expert, but regardless of the casing, remember that chemically-propelled bullets require to exaust the "gas", and that automatic weapons use that recoiling to rearm the firing pin. Of course, railgun variants won't have that problem at all, since they are just a particle accelerator on the macro scale for big chunks of hurty-things.

Smokeskin wrote:
Gas is exhausted out the barrel. EP uses electronic ignition, so there's no firing pin, but you do need to get a new bullet into the chamber. If they do that with gas or recoil like present guns or some powered mechanism we don't know. Railguns need to load bullets too, but they don't need to close the chamber so it is even simpler, and since the bullets are magnetic that's probably how they're loaded, unless the magazine doesn't just push bullets right onto the rail (though you'd need a feed regulator to be able to prevent a new bullet loading before the previous bullet has exited).

Most caseless rifles have a sliding mechanism, but not necessarily one that extends past the back of the upper assembly. However, even futuristic guns will likely still have a mechanical mechanism. The primary advantage is that a mechanical slide requires no power input, and will continue to function without the need for batteries. Eclipse Phase traditional firearms do not need power, so I imagine they still utilize this (and likely have a quartz-based spark plug, or some other power-generating system based on the mechanical motion of the trigger to detonate the round). However, there is no need for a slide that extends far back. Caseless ammo means that the sliding mechanism can have a significantly smaller profile, as it no longer needs to eject a case and can be engineered to focus all movement in loading the next round. So chances are that there is no need for a slide assembly that extends so far, and jamming the slide is unlikely. Still, that's a terrible way to hold a gun. The recoil will likely dislocate her thumb. That nice curvy part at the back of the gun where the handle meets the barrel is where you should be resting the top of your hand, with your thumb on one side and finger on the other, fitting it within that curve. It keeps it well braced and spreads the impact of recoil over most of your hand, ensuring comfort. Otherwise, you wouldn't be able to stand much more than a dozen shots or so before you had to stop firing.

—

Transhumans will one day be the Luddites of the posthuman age. [url=http://bit.ly/2p3wk7c]Help me get my gaming fix, if you want.[/url]

Wed, 2012-06-06 05:28

#8

Smokeskin

Re: Red, red, red

Decivre wrote:
Most caseless rifles have a sliding mechanism, but not necessarily one that extends past the back of the upper assembly.

Slides are by definition external, and I can't think of any rifle (including cased ones) that has a slide. You mean a bolt, or the bolt handle? There aren't many caseless rifles, but the G11 doesn't have a bolt (and of course not a slide), and I'd think that having a bolt defeats many of the advantages of a caseless weapon.

Decivre wrote:
Still, that's a terrible way to hold a gun.

Agreed :)

Wed, 2012-06-06 11:13

#9

Arenamontanus Arenamontanus's picture

Re: Red, red, red

Smokeskin wrote:
Decivre wrote:
Still, that's a terrible way to hold a gun.
Agreed :)

Noted. Next time I make an action illustration I will send it by you to correct it. Still, note that Akinyi haven't got an enormous Kinetic Weapons skill :-)

—

Thu, 2012-06-07 04:52

#10

Decivre

Re: Red, red, red

Smokeskin wrote:
Slides are by definition external, and I can't think of any rifle (including cased ones) that has a slide. You mean a bolt, or the bolt handle? There aren't many caseless rifles, but the G11 doesn't have a bolt (and of course not a slide), and I'd think that having a bolt defeats many of the advantages of a caseless weapon.

No, not a bolt. If you watch a video showcasing the G11, you'll see that there is a sliding mechanism that acts to move the feed. [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ucOPmeLC83g]You can see it within the first few seconds of this film.[/url] It's definitely not a bolt, and it may not be a slide, but it's definitely a sliding mechanism.

—

Transhumans will one day be the Luddites of the posthuman age. [url=http://bit.ly/2p3wk7c]Help me get my gaming fix, if you want.[/url]

Thu, 2012-06-07 05:24

#11

Decivre

Re: Red, red, red

Arenamontanus wrote:
Noted. Next time I make an action illustration I will send it by you to correct it. Still, note that Akinyi haven't got an enormous Kinetic Weapons skill :-)

60 is still pretty high. I imagine it to be the equivalent of someone with a master's degree and no occupational experience, or a lot of experience and no formal training. I know what it is. She isn't used to traditional firearms. This girl has been using railguns all her life. :P

—

Transhumans will one day be the Luddites of the posthuman age. [url=http://bit.ly/2p3wk7c]Help me get my gaming fix, if you want.[/url]

Thu, 2012-06-07 13:05

#12

Smokeskin

Re: Red, red, red

Decivre wrote:
Smokeskin wrote:
Slides are by definition external, and I can't think of any rifle (including cased ones) that has a slide. You mean a bolt, or the bolt handle? There aren't many caseless rifles, but the G11 doesn't have a bolt (and of course not a slide), and I'd think that having a bolt defeats many of the advantages of a caseless weapon.
No, not a bolt. If you watch a video showcasing the G11, you'll see that there is a sliding mechanism that acts to move the feed. [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ucOPmeLC83g]You can see it within the first few seconds of this film.[/url] It's definitely not a bolt, and it may not be a slide, but it's definitely a sliding mechanism.

That's the whole barrel, chamber, magazine and feed recoiling backwards together without affecting the stock before a three round burst has been fired, allowing for extremely tight burst groupings because all three bullets leave the barrel before it rises.

Fri, 2012-06-08 07:12

#13

Decivre

Re: Red, red, red

Smokeskin wrote:
That's the whole barrel, chamber, magazine and feed recoiling backwards together without affecting the stock before a three round burst has been fired, allowing for extremely tight burst groupings because all three bullets leave the barrel before it rises.

And that motion also controls the ammo feed mechanism, according to the schematics I've seen on the net. That's what I'm saying. Most traditional weapons will still have mechanical motion in order to retain a semiautomatic firing system.

—

Transhumans will one day be the Luddites of the posthuman age. [url=http://bit.ly/2p3wk7c]Help me get my gaming fix, if you want.[/url]

Fri, 2012-06-08 05:29

#14

Smokeskin

Re: Red, red, red

Decivre wrote:
Smokeskin wrote:
That's the whole barrel, chamber, magazine and feed recoiling backwards together without affecting the stock before a three round burst has been fired, allowing for extremely tight burst groupings because all three bullets leave the barrel before it rises.
And that motion also controls the ammo feed mechanism, according to the schematics I've seen on the net. That's what I'm saying.

No it doesn't. The ammo feed works independently of that motion and that is in fact necessary in making the 3-round bursts unaffected by recoil. You could weld the barrel and feeding mechanism to the rifle casing, completely preventing that motion, and it could still fire in semi-auto, burst and full auto (though you'd probably need to modify something in the firing pin mechanism to get it to fire more than one shot/burst, the firing pin probably isn't released until the barrel has moved forward).

Fri, 2012-06-08 07:14

#15

Decivre

Re: Red, red, red

Smokeskin wrote:
No it doesn't. The ammo feed works independently of that motion and that is in fact necessary in making the 3-round bursts unaffected by recoil. You could weld the barrel and feeding mechanism to the rifle casing, completely preventing that motion, and it could still fire in semi-auto, burst and full auto (though you'd probably need to modify something in the firing pin mechanism to get it to fire more than one shot/burst, the firing pin probably isn't released until the barrel has moved forward).

You are correct, my apologies. I was thinking of the Steyr ACR, which uses polymer-cased sabot rounds. Caseless weapons mostly just use a simple spring in the magazine to feed the rounds.

—

Transhumans will one day be the Luddites of the posthuman age. [url=http://bit.ly/2p3wk7c]Help me get my gaming fix, if you want.[/url]

Wed, 2012-06-13 07:47

#16

Prior

Re: Red, red, red

Arenamontanus wrote:
Here is my little Martian adventure: http://www.aleph.se/EclipsePhase/Red%20red%20red.pdf Special thanks to Jay Dugger, whose Martian Autumn campaign served as original inspiration when I did this as a one-shot. Please comment, so I can update and enhance the adventure.

I enjoyed reading this. Thanks for sharing.

—

"I do seem to remember a process where you people ask me questions and I give you answers, and then I ask you questions and you give me answers, and that's the way we find out things. I think I read that in a manual somewhere."

Tue, 2012-07-03 05:56

#17

kowalzcky

Re: Red, red, red

Thanks for sharing! really nice work, I was thinking in starting a campaing similar to this one and this one will perfectly fit inside it! specially the "maifesto"!!

—

[img]http://boxall.no-ip.org/img/tc_userbar.jpg[/img]

Wed, 2012-07-04 05:47

#18

Arenamontanus Arenamontanus's picture

Re: Red, red, red

Cool! It is fun to write manifestos - you aim to make them punchy and crammed with bad ideas.

—

Wed, 2012-07-11 06:15

#19

kowalzcky

Re: Red, red, red

Arenamontanus wrote:
Cool! It is fun to write manifestos - you aim to make them punchy and crammed with bad ideas.

Absolutelly! I´m still developing phase of my adventures; and I´m working in a couple of "softer" manifestos, more for the "common people" of mars, lets see if I create a couple of good ones and then translate them into english.

—

[img]http://boxall.no-ip.org/img/tc_userbar.jpg[/img]

Wed, 2012-07-11 14:21

#20

Lord High Munchkin Lord High Munchkin's picture

Re: Red, red, red

Manifestos don't have to be agit-prop, but generally a sense of smug superiority and a frothing mouth help... one can never have enough agitated outrage.

Sat, 2020-07-04 04:40

#21

Saii

Update to EP2

Just a quick note to say I've reworked the original version of this to be EP2 compatible: https://eclipsephasemaps.wordpress.com/2020/07/03/an-experiment-in-scena...