Is it possible to remove negative traits from morphs at character creation? I'm considering using a Remade morph, but the uncanny valley trait gives me a social penalty and I'd like to be able to interact socially without worrying about people thinking my character looks weird.
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Removing negative traits
Tue, 2012-04-24 16:31
#1
Biscuithammer
Removing negative traits
Tue, 2012-04-24 17:05
#2
Jaberwo
Re: Removing negative traits
Buy a Skinflex implant for [moderate].
But if you are a canon Ultimate you shouldn't really care about what non-Ultimates think of you.
The trait comes from the fact that your morph is heavily optimised to the point that it doesn't look human anymore.
Tue, 2012-04-24 17:10
#3
Biscuithammer
Re: Removing negative traits
Well, I wasn't going to be an Ultimate. Just someone who uses a Remade. Nothing in the rules seems to indicate that only Ultimates can use them, or even that all Ultimates use Remades.
Tue, 2012-04-24 18:40
#4
Arenamontanus
Re: Removing negative traits
The interesting thing will be the reactions of people who succeed on a Kinesics or Interest: Morph roll and realize that it is a Remade.
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Wed, 2012-04-25 04:15
#5
Smokeskin
Re: Removing negative traits
The way I see it, the Uncanny Valley trait comes largely from the extensive redesign needed to gain the amazing stats of the Remade morph. The cranium has to be bigger, because you need the extra brain volume. The fingers have to be elongated to allow for their extraordinary fine motor ability, and so on.
In my opinion, a redesign of their appearance to hide the uncanny valley trait would hurt their stats. For example, if you redesigned their body to give it human proportions, based on the larger skull size, they'd be even taller, a lot heavier, and less gainly (perhaps SOM bonus was reduced to +5 and COO and REF aptitude maximum was reduced to 30). If you based it on their current height, you wouldn't get so large, but you'd still lose some of their grace and you'd have to reduce skull size and therefore brain size (much more difficult than just redesigning the body imo).
Wed, 2012-04-25 08:53
#6
Xagroth
Re: Removing negative traits
I think you don't really understand what "uncanny valley" means. It is not that the morph that causes it looks inhuman (look, in Gatecrashing there are damn mithological monsters as pods... or the Novacrab... talk about less human-like!).
No, Uncanny Valley is an expresion used for stuff that activates some subconscioous part of the brain that says you are talking to something that it is not human... yet EVERY other part of you tells you that you are with a human. In fact, a Kinesics roll might tell you mixed stuff (so the higher the skill, the higher the confusion).
Why does a Remade have Uncanny Valley? Because there is something utterly wrong with their absolute perfection. Perhaps the body is 100% regular and mirrored (usually, a leg is a few milimeters larger than the other, a thig a centimeter bigger than the other, etc...), perhaps they just don't have any subconscious body language (still pupils, they don't look at any side while trying to remember or invent something, etc...) and they don't emit the same smell a human would (they don't have the same bacteria, after all).
But seriously? If you are inside a Remade, you are either more than able to overcome that disadvantage thanks to your insanely high social stats, or it doesn't matter because you are either a combat character or a sage character. And if it does matter, leave the remade for the future and use an Exalt or a Sylph.
Wed, 2012-04-25 09:39
#7
Smokeskin
Re: Removing negative traits
My take on it is that it isn't the perfection that triggers it, and that they certainly have body language, and I can't imagine how smell would have that effect. It's the wrong proportions and such that causes it. In the same way as synths, they look like humans, but not really.
Wed, 2012-04-25 09:45
#8
Arenamontanus
Re: Removing negative traits
I'm reminded of this interesting study on creepiness:
http://www.neatorama.com/2012/04/24/why-creepy-people-give-us-the-chills/
http://news.sciencemag.org/sciencenow/2012/04/why-creepy-people-give-us-...
I think the same might be happening with the remade. It is not just the body shape but aspects of the articulation, motion (no tremor, perhaps no microsaccades) and perhaps even mindset (since in EP, the brain you sleeve in seems to affect you to some extent - consider WIL, SAV and INT bonuses) that are slightly "off".
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Wed, 2012-04-25 13:21
#9
Janusfaced
Re: Removing negative traits
I am figuring you have two questions -- A: Is it possible to remove negative traits "from morphs?" and B: Is it possible to remove negative traits "at character creation?"
About question A, I feel it is fine treating removed negative traits as added positive traits. so if you want a Remade morph without Uncanny valley Trait (10CP Bonus) in gameplay, pay it as a Remade morph with 10CP positive traits.
After all, mental disorders by psi infection are treatable(p. 221), so you can have asyncs without mental disorders. Why you can't have Remade without Uncanny valley Trait?
But about question B, I am negative a little. If you remove the trait as a negative trait, you must include the trait in 50CP negative traits limit and 25CP negative morph traits limit(p. 136). And in a precise rule, you must pay Rez point to shed off the trait. Since starting characters don't have any Rez point, you must invocate rule to pay in CP. But these complications make me negative.
It is easier to think there are things starting characters can't have.
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Wed, 2012-04-25 13:37
#10
King Shere
Re: Removing negative traits
I am reminded of this thread.
http://www.eclipsephase.com/uncanny-valley-striking-looks
Anyway for the OPs question.
A GMs could rule it modifiable or craft a "different" morph lacking the negative traits using the rules for Morph Customisation (Page 277)
Aside from those rules and such a generous GM, no.
I think its from a Game-mechanic point of view I think its also possible to "negate" negative traits, ie adding a advantage that collide on the modifier with the negative one. However that approach would open the interpretation that it would reduce the "remaining" modifiers, as there exist limits for maximum modifiers stack.
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Wed, 2012-04-25 16:51
#11
Xagroth
Re: Removing negative traits
As I thought, you need to look what is really the "Uncanny valley" (it is a real life exression, by the way), so I suggest you to read this wikipedia article: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uncanny_valley
Frankly, if you are not a Ultimate yet you want a Remade morph without the disadvantage of Uncanny valley, I'll just tell you that for a starting character a more sound inversion in a morph is the Exalt or, if you want an all-around good yet physically powerful, an Olympic. Of course, a synthmorph like the Steel Morph (masked variant, Sunward pg 163) is much better, unless you are playing with an async, of course. But the high limit in stats of a Remade morph means no starting character will use all those limits (or even two without crippling himself on others!).
Also, remember you can buy an advantage that lets you increment the limit on either the ego or the morph's characteristic of your choice by ten (to a max of 40, and you can buy this advantage both for the ego AND the morph... just one time to each one).
Wed, 2012-04-25 17:51
#12
Smokeskin
Re: Removing negative traits
I know what the uncanny valley is. You should check what I wrote (I bolded a section to make it easy for you), then compare it to the first line of the wiki entry you linked:
[i]The uncanny valley is a hypothesis [...] which holds that when human replicas [b]look and act almost, but not perfectly, like actual human beings[/b], it causes a response of revulsion among human observers. [/i]
Looks like I'm dead on to be honest, while you're very far from the mark with your ideas that perfect symmetry causes uncanny valley revulsion (when in fact symmetry is a key component to human beauty), or that a different smell does it (people can smell of everything from perfume to industrial lubricants without going into the uncanny valley). Your body language idea would fit the uncanny valley, but it seems ridiculous to me that such an advanced morph would lack that, especially since it has +5 SAV.