So I'm a student at the University of Queensland, Australia and study chemical science, majoring in nanotechnology. Of course I grew up just devouring sci-fi on nanotech but now that I have the opportunity to get into it, it's just amazing to see how much of a frontier it is, and how exciting the next couple of decades are going to be. Now, Eclipse Phase has got to be the best, richest, most well realised nanotech based fictional universe out there, so I want to know; who else out there actually studies nanoscale science and tech? Let's let loose with some crazy ideas and imaginings, what amazing things do you wish to see come out of your field in, say, 50 years?
Welcome! These forums will be deactivated by the end of this year. The conversation continues in a new morph over on Discord! Please join us there for a more active conversation and the occasional opportunity to ask developers questions directly! Go to the PS+ Discord Server.
RL Nanotechnologists and other singularity-strivers discussion
Tue, 2012-03-20 23:48
#1
Daedalus84
RL Nanotechnologists and other singularity-strivers discussion
Wed, 2012-04-18 23:21
#2
Aeroz
Re: RL Nanotechnologists and other singularity-strivers ...
One odd thing I found about anything I've read about nanotech, is that technically it isn't nanotechnology, we skipped nano and work on a much smaller scale.
I will say what elevated Eclipse Phase for me was when out of curiosity I did some research and learned there is a good chance we will have this in my lifetime. Which worries me a bit because as I commented on space travel isn't really progressing. Either the rich will have strict access to upgrades, or it will be wide-spread and we will see a population explosion that makes Earth a living hell.
I really hope something changes and we start colonizing soon.
Thu, 2012-04-19 04:31
#3
Arenamontanus
Re: RL Nanotechnologists and other singularity-strivers ...
Nanotechnology is right now in a slightly odd position. A lot of stuff labelled nanotechnology is just materials science and chemistry, and not aimed at atomically precise manufacturing. At the same time we are getting all sorts of ultra precise systems like DNA origami and applied biotechnology. I suspect the real breakthroughs will be weird convergent technology mixes that create ever more precise and high-throughput systems.
It is not obvious to me, not even after chatting about it with Eric Drexler, whether we will see manufacturing on the macroscale (which would make space cheaper) long before, after or simultaneously with the boutique style precision work that is important for enhancement and computing.
The cost and equality of enhancement will depend on whether they can be supplied as gadgets/drugs (prices typically decline exponentially) or services (prices typically constant). The big problem is going to be testing it: it might be too expensive to run the proper tests, just like current drugs.
—
Thu, 2012-04-19 15:44
#4
Smokeskin
Re: RL Nanotechnologists and other singularity-strivers ...
Why a population explosion? And why would that make Earth a living hell?
Thu, 2012-04-19 17:07
#5
Extrasolar Angel
Re: RL Nanotechnologists and other singularity-strivers ...
I think that due to initial costs and scarcity of the enhancements, the situation could likely see the ultra-rich restoring a sort of feudal social structure.Especially if the enhancements provide significant mental advantages. After initiall expansion where most of the modifications would be absorded by the ultra-rich caste, I wouldn't be surprised if we would see an attempt to licence or regulate the market for enhancements to keep control over the masses. This could have an interesting consequences in form of demands for the state to provide a basic "mod" for all citizens.
Another angle is, that while we civilians can debate on morality of enhancements, AI or nanotechnology, military has less time to study this. In the end those with more efficient weapons, soldiers, communications and analysis will win in conflicts. So if AI or enhancements prove themselves to be more efficient way of leading war, they will be implemented.
—
[I]Raise your hands to the sky and break the chains. With transhumanism we can smash the matriarchy together.[/i]
Thu, 2012-04-19 18:57
#6
Arenamontanus
Re: RL Nanotechnologists and other singularity-strivers ...
That assumes that 1) there is a rapid development of the enhancement, and 2) that the advantages are very big. Being in the enhancement-watching business myself I am sceptical of both of these. Developing anything that is to be interfaced with humans (especially well-paying humans who can sue you) is a very careful and slow process, and so far I have not seen any proposed enhancement that really looks like it would improve life chances enormously. Sorry, no Limitless pill - but I promise to keep looking for it.
Of course. Guess where the only serious enhancement programs are actually taking place right now? And where much of the funding for AI comes from?
However, this is not necessarily bad. In western civilian society there is often a knee-jerk response to the military as something automatically bad and dangerous. It *is* a dangerous tool of the already dangerous technology "the state". But we should not let this legitimate worry about how well it is controlled by democratic institutions blind us to the actual utility of having enhancement and AI developed and first tested in security-minded organisations. If you accept these technologies as being potentially dangerous (either inherently, like AGI, or because they give a lot of power, like nanomanufacturing or strong enhancement) then you should hope they get controlled by groups that actually have some chance of controlling them - just imagine what would happen if seed AGI was invented in the open source movement. Of course, given the long list of past disasters in military planning and security, we should not expect too much from them either...
—
Thu, 2012-04-19 21:22
#7
Aeroz
Re: RL Nanotechnologists and other singularity-strivers ...
Life extending nanotechnology and bio-mechanical augmentation (potentially ego back-ups) are probably going to show up long before cornucopia machines and space travel. We are looking at a drastic reduction in the death rate. The world will quickly overpopulate and we will see massive unemployment, homelessness, over-crowding and famine.
Why do you assume the elite make active attempts to disenfranchise people? The rich are mostly indifferent, not evil. They have no real interest in helping you, but if you live a better life they dont care either. Having some people that are stronger, faster, smarter will help their profit margins after all. You dont think Microsoft would love it if all their engineers had intelligence enhancing hardware? Plus all the cash they will make by selling it.
Now if you are thinking thats only employees, they help new businesses as well. Most new enterprises are funded by the wealthy, who also offer advice and suggestions to help you succeed. The "cut-throat business" does exist but it is not the norm. It is a wiser business move to help make a powerful ally, than it is to try and cripple an enemy.
Fri, 2012-04-20 00:25
#8
Arenamontanus
Re: RL Nanotechnologists and other singularity-strivers ...
Some technologies imply each other. Having ego backups implies uploading, and that in turn implies copyable software intelligence - something that changes the economic game enormously. The above issues will be swept away by an economic singularity (and besides, if you have uploading overcrowding and famine are non-issues anyway).
Life extension has a slow effect. If you run the demographics and assume people just stop dying, you will still not see a rapid rush of population - it is all set by the fertility rate (of course, forking uploads can fill this). Economically the immortality also means human capital gets cheaper: more educated healthy minds to work, and this is very good for economic growth. Typically the problem is not the number of people but their average wealth: Bangladesh and the Netherlands are about the same density. So life extension is not by itself going to lead to poverty.
Besides, you can get rich by selling enhancements and related services. Whoever has patents on the key enhancement technologies everybody will want will become very rich. Keeping people from getting them would mean giving up potential income.
—