So I am going to be running a non-Firewall scenario where the players are the unfortunate victims of a black-market cartel that snatches up people and then traffics their Ego/ID (sometimes for ransom, other times as indentures, sometimes to wealthy sickos, and also for fabricating fake ID's) and sells off their morph (sometimes back to the hypercorps that owned the morph to begin with).
I would rather not start the scenario with them already being captured. They'd be fine with that, but I feel like I owe them a "fighting chance," obscenely lopsided though it may be, prior to transporting them to the orbital processing facility. To that end...how do I non-lethally capture my players in style? Did my pervioius searching miss a thread dedicated to this very thing?
My experience with non-lethal take-downs in Eclipse Phase is currently 0 (to date most of my combats have been more evocative of a John Woo film). The crux of the issue is that I really do want my players to get Shanghai'ed (I realize that something this rail-roady is not to everyone's liking) so that the scenario I've dreamed up can unfold (escape their containment, do in some of their captors, save some other NPCs, nab a space plane, escape the station, narc out the cartel to the authorities with hard evidence, yadda yadda yadda, story as old as time right?).
My main concern is taking down the fury morph character before she manages to ventilate a good number of my shock baton weilding criminals. She wasn't supposed to be on the list of abductees, but she was in the wrong place at the right time and rather than simply shooting her to pieces the greedy buggers decide to abduct her as well since her morph will fetch a really decent price on the BM.
Welcome! These forums will be deactivated by the end of this year. The conversation continues in a new morph over on Discord! Please join us there for a more active conversation and the occasional opportunity to ask developers questions directly! Go to the PS+ Discord Server.
New Shanghai'ed - Getting Crimped in Eclipse Phase
Fri, 2011-12-30 13:33
#1
New Shanghai'ed - Getting Crimped in Eclipse Phase
Fri, 2011-12-30 14:11
#2
Re: New Shanghai'ed - Getting Crimped in Eclipse Phase
Your main problem with this scenario (besides bad feelings on the part of your players) is if you have any PCs in synthmorphs. The only way to non-lethally take down a synthmorph is to hack it, which is unreliable to say the least as if you are detected they can just shut down their mesh inserts. If retrieving an intact body is not a priority, just shoot to kill and take their ego from their cortical stack.
Non-lethal takedowns of biomorphs is pretty easy, though. Start with splash seekers containing injector swarms with twitch gas. Follow it up with zap rounds. Both of these methods have ways biomorphs can become immune to them, but otherwise they are fairly effective. In such cases, the answer is the same as with synthmorphs: waste the body, take the stack.
But... yeah, I'd start with your PCs already captured. Less bad feelings all around, especially if they have a way of getting their bodies back. Just describe how they were captured if they ask, or tell them their memories of the capture operation were deleted.
Fri, 2011-12-30 14:35
#3
Re: New Shanghai'ed - Getting Crimped in Eclipse Phase
I agree with Mad. As a player, I'd rather the GM just narrate through my capture, rather than pretend like I have a chance if I really don't.
However ... Yes, synthmorphs are basically immune to getting knocked out. They can be incapacitated in other ways, such as frozen in freeze spray, stuck to a giant magnet, or spaced. And they can be hacked. The problem with hacking is either they realize it and can defeat it handily, or they don't realize it until they're hacked, and you may as have just narrated it, because they'll still feel cheated.
And like Mad said, there's no real benefit to knocking someone out if you're stealing their ego (excepting flats, of course, but flats aren't synthmorphs). Just kill them and pull the stacks. It's ultimately simpler.
Fri, 2011-12-30 15:11
#4
Re: New Shanghai'ed - Getting Crimped in Eclipse Phase
Shock Batons are nice. Concussion grenades, Microwave Agonizers, and Zap ammo loaded pistols are better. Ambush is also key. So, let's say you have five ambushers. Three are equipped with Heavy Pistols and Under-barrel Seekers, both with smart/extended mags. The other two are equipped with the Microwave Agonizers. If you are feeling particularly fancy, a Creepy with a grenade attached to it can be quite useful as well (Sub-dual combat to grab onto the target, then explode the grenade).
Combat opens with an ambush, hopefully your attackers can catch a few of the targets flat footed. Two of the pistol users semi-auto four micro-missiles into the group, two concussion and two overload. The other pistol user uses FA (+30 to hit, not damage) on the Fury, emptying their clip as quickly as possible. Meanwhile the two Microwave Agonizers focus fire down whichever target is still not vomiting up their lunch from the grenades. Synthmorphs are annoying, you just have to hope that the Overloads bring them down enough that you can sub-dual them into submission.
In a single surprise round there is a good chance that you have applied so many neg-modifiers that the rest of the combat should just be plastering anyone still standing with zap rounds (or reg rounds for the Synths). When everyone is down, you go in with zip-ties, secure the lot, and frog march them off for processing. This approach is a bit noisy (concussion grenades go BOOM!), but it works. And it is very, very quick.
Or you can just ventilate them from half a mile away with sniper rifles. But that ruins the morphs. Not nice.
—
-
Fri, 2011-12-30 15:14
#5
Re: New Shanghai'ed - Getting Crimped in Eclipse Phase
There is some benefit to knocking people out, as you can then sell their valuable morph. Also, for those morphs that are vulnerable to it , very often knocking them out is even easier than killing them, and less messy. Biomorphs are incredibly vulnerable.
Freeze spray is a good idea if all you want to do is incapacitate, but if your goal is taking their ego you'll still need to hack them or destroy them. You may have access to a puppet sock if you incapacitate the morph... but all the ego needs to do in that case is ego-cast, which is simple if you are a synth. Surround them with a faraday cage first? Eh, it's too unreliable. Just kill them fast and use lots of firepower so they don't have time to call for help or egocast. Taking down synthmorphs is messy, no matter what.
Fri, 2011-12-30 19:42
#6
Re: New Shanghai'ed - Getting Crimped in Eclipse Phase
Just 3 things:
1) As someone said before, don´t play a fake combat, just tell the players they´re kidnaped by some evildoers.
2) Why to move them to a space station?, is expensive to move them to orbit just to process them. Is better to keep some expendable safehouses in the player´s habitat. You kidnap them, jail them in some garage or industrial plant and wait for a ban with an ego bridge. Valuable bodies are sold in the black market and the egos uploaded to some remote server. Then everybody leaves the location and no trails are left.
3) Freezers + interference generators are useful for this class of operations.
I hope you find these comments useful.
Fri, 2011-12-30 21:22
#7
Re: New Shanghai'ed - Getting Crimped in Eclipse Phase
How about this: What if their backups were stolen instead? So not only they have to escape, they'll have to find out what happened to their other selves.
Sat, 2011-12-31 12:01
#8
Re: New Shanghai'ed - Getting Crimped in Eclipse Phase
Thanks for the advice everyone. I am definitely going to just start with the players in a bind rather than try to hide my plot hammering with psuedo combat. I'll check back in afterwards to download how it went.
Sat, 2011-12-31 12:56
#9
Re: New Shanghai'ed - Getting Crimped in Eclipse Phase
When you say you're giving the players a fighting chance, albeit lopsided, can they actually win? What happens if, say, one of the players escapes but the rest don't? I'm assuming they're not going to be snatched as a group (much simpler and safer to grab people one at a time, after all, especially if they're doing violent grabs), so that's a very real danger. Never underestimate player ingenuity -- if them getting caught is critical to your story, pre-negotiate that outcome with your players. Nothing wrong with a little railroading if you've already talked to your players and made sure they're okay with it, and playing out the kidnapping attempt can give the players far more info about their attackers than they'd get from a narrative summary.
I'm assuming you're going with a combat scenario because combat is generally more fun to play out than having your food spiked with a nanotoxin or the like. In that case, location is key. You can't carry weapons everywhere (particularly in the inner system), and if you have to kidnap someone who might otherwise be armed, making sure they've been to one of those places is quite helpful.
Don't forget that communications are instantaneous. If your kidnappers aren't jamming mesh communications in their area, the attack is being reported to the authorities as it occurs, complete with footage of the attackers. Most public areas are also monitored at all times, and jamming the local security feeds is going to attract attention, so the kidnappers will need to be working with a good hacker so that the security feeds are getting the footage from some other day (or otherwise edited) for the duration of the kidnapping attempt.
Aside from precautions like that, overload grenades are _extremely_ useful if the kidnapping is taking place somewhere that loud and flashy isn't a problem. Twitch, which was mentioned before, is also quite valuable for takedowns -- I ran a very short combat for a group that ended very quickly when one player sent a twitch grenade amid the group of attackers and five of the six failed their resistance rolls, leaving the sixth to be swiftly dealt with by the second player. It was only meant as a low-challenge encounter, but I hadn't realized just _how_ easily they'd deal with it.
Sat, 2011-12-31 17:55
#10
Re: New Shanghai'ed - Getting Crimped in Eclipse Phase
A possibility would be to get in a fight, if they lose, they're taken
If they win, let them win, enjoy some game time feeling they're safe. They go sleep...
...and wakes up in captivity
Don't say how they got there, let their imagination do the job for you, feed their paranoia
You could also lead them to believe they were forknapped, somehow, and believe their alphas are looking for them..then break that illusion, HARD
Experimented with some thing like that in Trail of Cthulhu, and the result was a truly horrific game session
—
[center] Q U I N C E Y ^_*_^ F O R D E R [/center]
Remember The Cant!
[img]http://tinyurl.com/h8azy78[/img]
[img]http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg205/tachistarfire/theeye_fanzine_us...
Wed, 2012-01-04 13:42
#11
Re: New Shanghai'ed - Getting Crimped in Eclipse Phase
Everything went really smoothly by just having each player regain consciousness in a cramped box complete with the muscle fatigue brought on by being tazed into submission, and fuzzy unclear memories of their capture. Rather than feeling railroaded they were instantly engaged and 'wait what?!'
I had a note card for each character that had a single sentence memory on it. As we went along I added more of these memories to each card as the characters and their muses compared notes and they encountered situations that triggered additional memory. My character with eidetic memory implants recieved all of his at once, but it was still an incomplete picture of the greater situation at hand, since he only had his view and that of his various spy-bot feeds. It was fun for him to have his full memories whilst still having to do some investigation into the who-what-where-why of his Shanghai'ed condition.
Since it was a batch of brand new characters it was fun watching my players mistrust each other for one reason or another (each person was featured in some way in one of their fragmented memories leading up to their capture). Luckily they needed each other to escape the processing station, defeat a few nere-do-wells inhabiting said station, download some incriminating evidence and escape aboard a small shuttle with docking clearance for Progress.
If I had tried to round them up via in-game play I think we would have spent more time chasing our tails and less time having fun with investigation and dealing with the finer points of decompression. Thanks again for all the advice everybody.