There are definitely still schools. Schools are as much about socialization with peers as they are about memorizing facts. The curriculum is going to be very, very different, however. Memorizing facts is now something that's much more difficult to test for, short of requiring students to turn in XPs of themselves taking the test to ensure they didn't look up the answers on the mesh or download the curriculum in advance and just store the information locally. Conversely, it could mean that schools have a means of authenticating that a muse is denying mesh searches on topics related to an exam to ensure that students actually are learning material rather than just looking it up. Opens up all kinds of new avenues for cheating on exams...

You'd think so, but teaching kids thinking is difficult. That being said, smaller class sizes do help with that, and simple diminishing of numbers has probably helped with that. Also, I had a number of things to say, but, given its reception in another thread, I'm gonna post snippit examples here too. Here goes... [b]Little Orphan Annie - Mars[/b] Annie Majors was five when the Fall came to Earth, and she supposes now that she's ten. To her, life's what you live, not just how much time has passed since you were born. Her fathers said that it was a very grown-up sentiment, and she was proud of that. She doesn't remember much of Earth. She has vague recollections, most of which are lost to time and some psychosurgery to help her move on. There's some details, though: A beaten-up house, and that she had parents, though she can't remember what either of them looked like. Annie remembers her mother's voice from time to time, occasionally her singing a song, or saying that she'd have nothing to do with her brother anymore because he was "one of them". She isn't sure what she meant by that, but she assumes a synth, because that's why a lot of other people don't get along with him these days. Annie gets called a lot of names, like redneck, but she takes them in stride. She likes her red skin, and she likes Mars. She wishes her fathers would move out to a frontier town so she could go live like one of those cowboys and action heroes she watches in XP files. She spends as much of her free time as she can get away with following Jonathon (her uncle, though she calls him her father, just like his husband, Earnest) into the open-air areas that only synthmorphs go to regularly. She can breathe the air naturally, but she loves wearing her enviro-suit and carrying her laser pulser on her belt. Sometimes, she goes into the desert on her own and shoots rocks, or plays games of Flash Gordon with some of the other kids. Not so much the latter anymore, though; the girls won't play Flash Gordon and the boys are starting to not want to play with girls anymore. At home, Annie doesn't play many VR games. Jonathon and Earnest are both extremely active parents. They both play musical instruments and she sings along. Occasionally, they get into arguments over politics and even let her join in, and it always stays friendly. She knows they love her a great deal; she only realized recently how much Jonathon misses having skin, but, when it came to the choice of buying himself a new morph or getting his niece out of dead storage and getting her a body, there was no contest. She's started putting away credits from her part-time job gathering junk to recycle. It's not much, but, to her, every bit helps.

Erenthia wrote:

For instance, are children made-to-order? It's certainly possible, but what's the point? Once you've eliminated genetic disease and other unfortunate issues of birth, really why bother? Certainly some do it, but how common is it [i]really[/i]?

A child comes in two parts; a morph, and a mind. How those two are assembled almost certainly varies from place to place. I'm sure there will still be a drive to have babies though; it's one of the most fundamental drives of life, it brings many benefits to a habitat (especially one short on people and novelty), it brings a sense of normalcy, and it's just generally considered 'human'. In fact, I'd wonder if for many people, the ability to procreate doesn't become the new 'American Dream', since it suggests a level of stability and morph-control that many people aspire to, plus it's an opportunity to invest your energies in something personally meaningful. People building morphs the old-fashioned way will need a genetic strain, ideally from someone blood-related to the parent (or the parent themself), and it will likely be modified to be at least splicer-level. Making the genetic code to the level of other morphs is probably not really feasible though. Or your child can be just an ego modified to start as a blank slate, plus some 'mutations' in its preferences and behaviors. Unfortunately, a child raised like this loses a critical connection to humanity, and thusly may suffer a lot more of the issues associated with infomorphs. On the plus side, it takes a lot less resources, is more survivable, and can still operate in a full virtual version of the real world without ever having to know the difference. >Once the child is born, how long before a Muse is uploaded? Have you ever had a kid? There are two options here. Either I'm getting a muse in the first week, to sing lullabies and whatnot at 2am, or I'm putting him in a hibernation chamber. Muses are likely cheaper and safer, so imprinting be damned, that kid is getting a muse and I'm going back to sleep. >Do poor families give their children AR toys? Do poor families nowadays give children computer games? >Are there special social networks (or subnetworks) for parents? I'm sure. >Are there still schools? Most likely, but I agree, the focus would be on socialization (both 'learn how to work in a group' and 'get to know Dr. Blackwell's kid; that might get you a job in the future'). I think some degree of fact-learning will happen regardless, but I agree I doubt it will be the goal, any more than learning Latin is a major component of education in the 21st century. As an interesting note, historically we've always had more teacher candidates than money to pay them. In this setting, that's finally not the case, and teachers are given the lifestyle and respect they deserve. I suspect that small classes are the norm. If anything, the issue is most kids died with the Fall (who do you save? A 2-year-old no one will care for, or the multi-millionaire?) so that alone will limit the number of teachers. Many classes will have to be virtual, because the kids live too far apart to share physical proximity.

Quote:

With STDs and Pregnancy no longer a concern, what is the age of consent? I imagine it varies from place to place.

STDs and pregnancy have almost never been an issue with age of consent. The issue has been psychological harm done to developing minds. I imagine this does vary from place to place though, but in the consortium it's likely still 18, with special rules for teenagers doing it with one another. This also has an interesting result that by 18, someone can be 1,080 in subjective time (due to simulspace acceleration), but still not permitted to have sex.

I'd assume that age of consent varies mightily from habitat to habitat, but it's probably no younger than 14 anywhere in the Consortium. 16 is probably not out of the question in many habs (it's the case in some parts of Canada). It is curious to ponder, though, that the enhanced intelligence and self-ownership endowed in most transhumans by their superior genetics might result in them maturing earlier. Hard to say, though. How long is the "childhood" of a transhuman? When do they reach emotional maturity?

I'd think that it depends on where they're from and who their parents are. A scum born might never reach what we call "emotional maturity", and that might be considered just fine for a load of anarchistic gypsies traveling around for kicks...

I'm mentioned it several times on this forum and the French one, but considering reproduction and childhood, for me the template provided by Terra-E (old manga, fairly recent anime) has made it to canon in my EP setting, in the Consortium space Basically, children are conceived, carried ex-utero and born in labs. potential parents are selected randomly, as couple. Regardless of sexual orientation, given the morph and gender swap that's not an issue anymore, but prime in the examination is the set of memes the applicants follows and spread. Their ego is forked and questioned through psychosurgery to ascertain their parenting skills and determine their key personality strokes which are subtly imprinted on the new born through psychosurgery. the kid are born in their native morph, generally a Splicer, and stay in it until adolescence. Getting their own chosen second morph is something akin getting their first car in present day. Also, if parent and/or children chose to, both parties can have their memories edited and part ways, or remain as a family unit. This could also become a sentence if either child or parents committed a crime against the Consortium. Some parents can repeat the cycle many times, especially if raising the child in fast forward simspace for Scum, my template comes from Mass Effect. The Quarians, to be precise. Children grow raised by parents as family or collective. When they reach a certain age, they leave the barge/swarm to learn how to fend for themselves and gain rep. Maybe also to bring back something valuable for the collectives. Also, if you want to give your players a disturbing adventures, take a look at Suzanne Collins' trilogy The Hunger Games. I'm prepping a setting piece for the second quarter of 2012 issue of The Eye about this. in a nutshell, a tyrannical administration leading a nation made of twelve settlements called Districts is forcing each district to send one boy and one girl between 12 and 18, chosen pseudo-randomly to the Capitol to partake in an event that is part Battle Royale part Survivors, 24 contestants (called Tributes), only 1 surviving victor, everything filmed by hundreds of camera (spimes, in our case) and a mendatory spectacle to watch for all, including the loved ones of the Tributes. Another possibility is that some Hypercorps or faction either grow or select infants and raise them into their elite cadres. I'm thinking Direct Actions, Stellar Intelligence and the Ultimates are customary of that. Look at Ender's Game for example.

I just want to point out a handful of things about the sleep issue: 1. Even an average transhuman only needs four hours of sleep a night. The truly dedicated parent gets the circadian regulation biomod, making their life even easier. If you've got two parents, one just takes over while the other takes a two-to-four hour power nap and then they're up again to take care of the child. 2. Medichines are incredibly common and could be set with a "parent mode", in which temporary extreme wakefulness is induced so that a parent can cope with this. More energy is burned during this state but you've got a literal doctor inside your body monitoring your condition, so you should be fine. 3. Your child has medichines too, most likely, and they are probably monitoring them very closely. The baby will never get sick and you'll most likely be warned well in advance by predictive algorithms of any potential wake-ups. This would let you far more easily plan your day around your infant. Since most children are grown in exo-wombs, maternity leave is probably greatly different too; people are given an option to work from home or other place of convenience. The additional fact that children are always planned and easily conceived means that you likely have to inform your employer ahead of time if you're planning to have a child, and the better places likely plan around this and the worst ones basically acknowledge this as a nine month's notice in which they have you train your successor. Frankly, for the well-prepared parent in the transhuman future, child-rearing is probably unimaginably easier, and that's even if you don't include details like diaper-changing robots or sub-dermal tracking devices. No visits to the doctor, no having to learn considerable amounts about your child's fecal matter (every parent knows exactly what I'm talking about), no worrying about scraped knees and similar problems. This is all probably incredibly expensive, though. For a two parent family in the Consortium or anarcho-capitalist zones, you're looking at a considerable expense just for the child (exowomb services, genetic licenses, etc.) before you even get into accessories (Diaper Genie brand servitor bots, medichines for the child, toys, clothing, etc.). This is also discounting all other expenses to boot (possible job loss, more living space required, etc.). Even in socialist/communist habs, you're talking about serious waiting times or favors being called in. An average family is going to need to acquire the fabber time for all of the things above, [i]and[/i] justify to the government why the good people of their hab should give them access time to the exowombs, let them raise a child, and give them the living space to do so. I can imagine a lot of inner politics and corruption getting mixed up in that, with certain people trading favours to be able to finally have a child of their own, with others being left out in the cold because they do not possess the "politically appropriate" mindset. A child is pretty much the ultimate status symbol, too, which is probably why a lot of the hyper-elite socialites probably have whole lineages to their name. There are no doubt many very cold and unloving families in the upper echelons of the inner system. Makes me imagine a tabloid headline: [b]"My mother is an octopus!" - Heir to powerful Inoue-Abramson Dynasty tells all; fled inner system to Socialist Hab to escape cold and distant family, adopted by Titanians[/b] Edit: Small addition to my already long post on parenting in the transhuman future. The following biomods and other tools could have considerable benefit to a transhuman parent. 1. Sub-dermal tracking and sensors - Being able to keep an eye on your child, even when you're not looking at them, is an incredible boon. I imagine most parents get used to having a blind-spot somewhere in their vision from always having a screen there displaying their child. 2. Enhanced senses - Being able to see when your child has a fever or just what kind of cough they have is probably extremely useful. A T-Ray emitter even lets you see how their bones are developing. A great boon to any parent, even if the general use is reduced by medichines. Just be cautious about taking the Enhanced Smell augmentation... 3. Eidetic memory/Oracles - Your muse can handle a lot of tasks but everyone gets frazzled when they have a thousand things to do, and not having to ask your muse constantly if you did something or redoing it on auto-pilot is quite handy. 4. Circadian Regulation - The benefits should be obvious. 5. Clean Metabolism - Having a shower can sometimes be a luxury. Being able to go outside without feeling absolutely disgusting is a boon to any parent's sanity. 6. Drug Glands - While most designer drug cocktails aren't really suitable for parenting, being able to rapidly deploy a stimulant into your bloodstream is probably extremely useful. The same must be said about deploying a soothing drug. 7. Emotional Dampers/Endocrine Control - Endocrine Control is in every way superior here, but a lot of parents know the frustration of dealing with a newborn, and being able to temporarily turn that off is very handy. Endocrine control, meanwhile, allows you to function even when you're under a lot of stress or in a lot of pain. Very handy. Another possible benefit is for mothers who want the full experience and want their body to produce milk. 8. Enhanced Pheromones - These are very useful. Children are naturally calmed by their parent's presence and this just makes that effect more pronounced. It's a double-edged sword, though, because any emotion you feel will have a greater impact on them. When you're scared, they're very scared, and when you're angry, they feel afraid. 9. Enhanced Respiration/Oxygen Reserve/Respirocytes - More oxygen means less tiredness during periods of activity. Great for playing with the young ones. 10. Muscle Augmentation/Hardened Skeleton - Great for carrying them around! 11. Neurachem/Multi-Tasking/Mental Speed/Reflex Boosters - For those think-fast sort of situations. Multi-Tasking takes it even further by letting you get a lot more done in a day. 12. Prehensile Tail - For when you just need an extra hand. Great for walking in public with the little ones, too. Everyone who has seen parents that have their children hold onto a long string can imagine a similar scenario here. 13. Ghostrider Module/Skillware - AIs exist for every purpose, and having an extra one besides your muse who can advise you on various things is incredibly useful. An AI could be programmed with everything from child psychology to medical information to teaching guides. Skillware, meanwhile, cuts out the middle-man entirely. 14. Mnemonic Augmentation - Record all those treasured memories. 15. Puppet Sock - This is one that I imagine is probably the most controversial and horrifying and almost never used, but it's guaranteed that some people will: A puppet sock implanted in the child. When a child gets their mesh inserts, the sock is included, and their muse watches for a dangerous situation like being about to walk into traffic and stops them if they're about to do so. This is a very bad thing to do, but it's guaranteed some parents will do it. 16. Wrist-Mounted Tools - Always good to have tools for this sort of thing.

nezumi.hebereke wrote:

Erenthia wrote:

For instance, are children made-to-order? It's certainly possible, but what's the point? Once you've eliminated genetic disease and other unfortunate issues of birth, really why bother? Certainly some do it, but how common is it [i]really[/i]?

A child comes in two parts; a morph, and a mind. How those two are assembled almost certainly varies from place to place. I'm sure there will still be a drive to have babies though; it's one of the most fundamental drives of life, it brings many benefits to a habitat (especially one short on people and novelty), it brings a sense of normalcy, and it's just generally considered 'human'. In fact, I'd wonder if for many people, the ability to procreate doesn't become the new 'American Dream', since it suggests a level of stability and morph-control that many people aspire to, plus it's an opportunity to invest your energies in something personally meaningful. People building morphs the old-fashioned way will need a genetic strain, ideally from someone blood-related to the parent (or the parent themself), and it will likely be modified to be at least splicer-level. Making the genetic code to the level of other morphs is probably not really feasible though.

I was thinking about this earlier. We've evolved to choose mates based on a variety of criteria, including (according to recent studies) complementary immune systems determined through pheromones, to produce healthy offspring. Obviously, health and immunity can be genetically altered in the future, so what criteria are used to choose your child's genetics in the EP world? Do you use your original morph genetics? Do you even have those records, or were they lost during the evacuation of Earth? Do you use your current morph genetics? Are all morphs compatible genetically? What happens if you cross a ruster and futura? Do you make the child from scratch from a genetic bank? In the inner system, I imagine someone is not just controlling who gets to breed, but they may also have some control on what genes are expressed. Children are often seen as a legacy, we see part of ourselves carried on in them. Instead of having your nose and your mate's eyes, will your offspring have your first morphs hair color, and an off-the-shelf square set jaw to indicate authority, and your octomorph mate's chameleon skin? Will your kid even take after you personality wise, or will this put an end to "he gets that from your side of the family"? (Unless we use that "blank slate" ego idea, and start with one similar to your own.) Unless we have tampered with our genes at a very fundamental level in the EP setting, I'm sure people will still have the drive to procreate in some form. I just wonder how all these other changes will affect the psychology of having children, or will it even matter since we can use psychosurgery? :P

Quote:

>Once the child is born, how long before a Muse is uploaded? Have you ever had a kid? There are two options here. Either I'm getting a muse in the first week, to sing lullabies and whatnot at 2am, or I'm putting him in a hibernation chamber. Muses are likely cheaper and safer, so imprinting be damned, that kid is getting a muse and I'm going back to sleep.

It mentions in the book that very young children are among those that don't have cortical stacks (presumably because the morph is still developing). So I assume you get the muse when you get your stack? As for having your muse raise or teach your kid, well, first remember the experiments with Harry Harlow and the rhesus monkeys (I actually figured this study is a microcosm of the Lost generation). A muse may not be able to emulate true companionship, so parents who leave the bulk of the work to AIs may be damaging their children. Second, muses are made to be highly user compliant, adapting to your tastes and preferences. "I have noted your preference for VR games over homework, so no assignment for tonight. Shall I set an alarm for your cartoons?" :P Expert AI programs are probably better suited to the job, I'd think.

(These are just the impressions I've had of the setting so far.) This seems kind of crazy, to me. Immortality and infinite freedom cause people to imprison their kids? :/ At worst, you'd get ubiquitous surveillance, as opposed to mercenary bodyguards. (Even—or especially?—in hypercorps.) Also, the cortical stack is not the only method for making ego backups. Just make the kids visit the ego bridge (or, much more likely, download from their cyberbrain; I guess we're only talking about that tiny segment of the population born bio?) at X intervals. I feel like the rep system is, at most, mildly bored about any possible childish 'scandal'.

But that's today. Multiply it times a billion and mix with a transhuman space future, and it's so watered down that no one would even notice. They'd call it 'Tuesday'. Besides, it's totally shopped, you can tell by the pixels. :) Hehe. Even if kid scandals were an issue, there are lots of ways of dealing with them besides cloistering (in EP, this is probably a human rights violation, too). Some people try an extreme, unproven method called 'parenting', which I don't recommend. More effective is hacking all the sensor records. ;)

Azathoth wrote:

A child comes in two parts; a morph, and a mind. How those two are assembled almost certainly varies from place to place. I'm sure there will still be a drive to have babies though; it's one of the most fundamental drives of life, it brings many benefits to a habitat (especially one short on people and novelty), it brings a sense of normalcy, and it's just generally considered 'human'. In fact, I'd wonder if for many people, the ability to procreate doesn't become the new 'American Dream', since it suggests a level of stability and morph-control that many people aspire to, plus it's an opportunity to invest your energies in something personally meaningful.

Sort of. We're already seeing a progressive trend where people who are in high-end countries become more inclined to adopt or not have kids at all, while we observe the usual high procreation-rates in poorer nations. It seems that better medical care, longer lifetimes, and better economical conditions encourage people to not care about the idea of passing on their genes. In that sense, it's very possible that procreation has become more rare in a world with nanomedical technology, cortical stacks and immortality. You'll probably still see high birthrates in the Junta, but in most other places passing on your genetics is probably not that big an issue... because everyone is having their genetics manufactured. Adoption is probably more likely in 10 AF than it is today.

Azathoth wrote:

It mentions in the book that very young children are among those that don't have cortical stacks (presumably because the morph is still developing). So I assume you get the muse when you get your stack? As for having your muse raise or teach your kid, well, first remember the experiments with Harry Harlow and the rhesus monkeys (I actually figured this study is a microcosm of the Lost generation). A muse may not be able to emulate true companionship, so parents who leave the bulk of the work to AIs may be damaging their children. Second, muses are made to be highly user compliant, adapting to your tastes and preferences. "I have noted your preference for VR games over homework, so no assignment for tonight. Shall I set an alarm for your cartoons?" :P Expert AI programs are probably better suited to the job, I'd think.

Remember that Muses are very advanced AI. Besides assisting you, they are designed to sense your emotional states and be empathically tuned to their owners moreso than most AI. Even for very young children, this would be a very useful tool; imagine having an AI observing your child that could tell you if his crying was hunger or illness, or call you wirelessly when your kid needs you. I'd imagine that a muse would be granted right away. Either it would happen after an early install of mesh inserts, or your muse would be inserted into some external device attached to the child... an ecto bracelet for example. As for user compliance, they are probably configured to recognize your parents as their owners initially, so that they act more as nannies than assistants early on, but once you reach a certain age or your parents give a proper code, it's purpose changes to that of a standard muse.

Decivre wrote:

I disagree. I think cortical stacks are withheld for far less time, and most implantation begins at around 7. By that point, a child's body has developed enough the ultra-rapid growth of early childhood has ended, and the rest of their lives will be filled with growth spurts. Plus, that hardware is likely designed and tailored to adjust to a person's still-developing body. Remember that cortical stacks are a safety net. No one wants to lose their child to tragedy. cortical stacks are the obvious preventative measure to that. While parents are still going to be protective as they always have throughout the centuries, you probably won't see the same reaction from a parent in 10 AF when their child is hit by a Martian buggy than you would in the modern day.

Remember that the Lost Generation came from (as far as the public knows, by the way ^^) tampering with the children's development. So I doubt anyway will allow their children to get a cortical stack before they can take a minimal care of themselves (remember, the cortical stack also means a quick way of stealing an ego). Also I think a mistake has been made regarding the muses. A muse do not "live" in the cortical stack, but inside the Mesh inserts, or in the Ectos. I bet children don't have mesh inserts either, at least until they have enough knowledge of the mesh and a developed security consciousness, but ectos are safe enough and will help the child in "school".

scnd, I might just be wrong, too. :) These are just the things that I've 'learned' about EP so far, so who knows? I just want to reiterate that there's such a thing as an Ego Bridge; Cortical Stacks are not the only backup method, even assuming child biomorphs. Ego Bridges are expensive enough that most people wouldn't have their own, but I find it tough to imagine them not having periodic access to them. In fact, the authorities in many places might require that, right?

@Decivre: Actually, according to my sources, adoption rates have remained relatively stable, while the number of children put up for adoption in wealthier demographics has actually decreased. Inability to have biological children remains a major motivating factor in adoption as well. So, with better family planning through technology, adopting children will probably be rare as the only children that are born are wanted. I imagine if you are bothering to reproduce, then, you probably want to be somewhat invested in the offspring, either genetically or ideologically (raising them according to certain traditions). However, you are entirely correct that birth rates tend to decrease in modern societies, but it remains to be seen if this is a result of population genetics or economic planning and pressure. In a transhuman future, as has been suggested, you'd need a license of some form to reproduce, and the number of offspring may be limited, but I imagine after the Fall SOME groups may have a "repopulate the system" mind set, and try to reproduce like crazy! Others may just like the novelty of having small children around, and given the lifespan and exo womb availability (so none of the physical effects of pregnancy) may continue to apply for children every few years for decades. Re:muses Yeah, muses probably would have parental settings early on, that's a good point! A question came to mind: There are more egos than morph to go around. Many biomorphs are grown just to house an existing ego. How do you grow a body with no ego? Ok, I guess if you grow it in a vat or womb where it's in suspended animation it's like the brain has never been brought "online" so it never had a chance to develop, but certainly it HAS a brain and all the inherent criteria for an ego. Is it just written over when it is sold? Are there no moral issues to this?

It may be a bit limiting in terms of story and the setting to throw adoption on the back burner as a "relic of bygone days." Obviously there is no wrong way to slice up a post-fall transhuman culture and serve it at your table, but I thought I'd just toss out some adoption-esque nuggets before I retreat to the bleachers to watch the discussion some more. With the heavily controlled almost eugenic structure present in the inner system, I would imagine there are plenty of "inelligable" candidates who would gladly turn to sleeving a random child/adolescent infogee (likely requiring that they enter indenture unless they are on the up and up rep/financially) and raising them as their own. Also, given the "good ol fashioned" breeding programs present in the Junta, I bet there is at least one group in the solar system that smuggles children and babies out of the Jovian Republic so that they can have "good lives" amongst the more progressive clusters of transhumanity. The Junta angle would make for some good roleplaying fodder, and provide for a way to explain how a flat could ever have ended up elsewhere in the solar system or exocolony (kind of a Gattaca story for some "underprivaleged" kid who just can't keep up on a genetic level). Criminals in the Junta may let people pay off their debts by "selling" off their kids. Corporations could get cheap, impressionable indentures or test subjects if you want to go all corporate super villain. Crime organizations could take the kids and do all sorts of colorful "too grim for morning coffee" things. Some Autonomists could potentially see freeing the kids from the Junta as a neccessity. People wanting to raise a child, who are for one reason or another unable to procure their own genetic scion may turn to the adoption smuggling market. And for a bit of black humor, there will always be glitterati who see raising/owning a few flats from the Junta as a status symbol not un-like having a prize pygmy panda-monkey (I'll add that to the pets thread :-)).

Why are we assuming that children in EP have growing bodies at all? For a normal biological child you could just grow it in an exowomb and then after it's born uploaded it's body into a fully adult body. You then put the body of the newborn into an accelerated growth tank so that eventually another newborn can upload into it. Technology will make dealing with your literal manchild easier than raising a kid today.

1) In a culture where the vast majority aren't in the body they were born in and ego casting is the preferred method of travel I'm not sure that physical development means much. Sure you won't get to see your kid grow up and mature physically, but his first words and first steps will all still be there. This also means you don't need to worry about the physical frailty of infants. 2) I know that the source book claims that morph are expensive, but they likely shouldn't be. We already know they can grow a fully matured body in a few years so it shouldn't be that hard to build a genetic template and just mass grow them. It's not like harvesting the material to feed a growing human is hard when you have swarms of robotic resource collectors mining everything you need. Heck, if you wanted to you could likely nanofabricate a human body and keep it in storage until it's time to turn it on. 3) In a culture where you can wake up in the morning in a pod after a face to face business meeting, egocast home for a quicky and lunch, and end up in an octomorph on the other side I don't think physical maturity will be the thing you look for. Instead you look at how they act, what their rep is, who they're friends with. Look at a kids facebook page and then look at an adults, even without a birthday listed and an avatar that isn't them you'll know a kid from an adult with ease.

There are two things about that question that worry me. First, doesn't the 'birth then transfer' method result in piles of 'used' little infant bodies? What are they for, the next stage of morph growth? It seems doable, but untidy. The second, and I'm sure this has been answered before: is a mind that 'grows up' in a morph from square one not different from a 'baby ego' you just cram into an 'adult' morph (/synth/info/etc.)? Is it even possible, without an intervening step akin to the accel-simulspace method, which is specifically associated with the Lost?

Yerameyahu wrote:

There are two things about that question that worry me. First, doesn't the 'birth then transfer' method result in piles of 'used' little infant bodies? What are they for, the next stage of morph growth? It seems doable, but untidy. The second, and I'm sure this has been answered before: is a mind that 'grows up' in a morph from square one not different from a 'baby ego' you just cram into an 'adult' morph (/synth/info/etc.)? Is it even possible, without an intervening step akin to the accel-simulspace method, which is specifically associated with the Lost?

It's possible, but as I mentioned about, I think it would be ill-advised to put an infant mind into a body with the strength and hormones of an adult, while they do not have the maturity and capacity to properly wield it. It's like letting a puppy drive a panzer tank.

Yerameyahu wrote:

I got you there, Decivre, and I agree, but I think I'm trying to say something totally different. My thought is that it's maybe not even possible to put the infant ego into the adult. It's nothing to do with strength or hormones, but the extended mind/body feedback that seems fundamental to development. It seems like the only way to avoid growing a 'real human ego' in a real, growing biomorph would be to near-identically fake that process (i.e., the accel-simulspace method). I don't know anything, but it just seems like either an actual biological and temporal childhood is required to get actual adult minds… or something functionally indistinguishable is. :) I do think the infant ego in whatever brain/morph might function (everything I understand about the mind/brain is that they're tremendously adaptable), but I don't think it would be 'human'. People can decide for themselves whether that's good, bad, or neither. :D

Ah, I see what you mean. You're wondering if it's possible that an infant ego is simply incompatible with a fully mature sleeve... and I can see that being plausible. The earliest years of existence are made calibrating the mind to be able to move the body, and sleeving the ego into any other morph but an infantile morph (or infomorph) may simply have disastrous results. This may also occur in a similar manner with newly-produced AGI, who may be incompatible with any sleeving until their code has reached a certain point of maturity.