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Astronomical observation of Gatecrasher destinations?

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rfmcdonald rfmcdonald's picture
Astronomical observation of Gatecrasher destinations?
The nearest gate-accessible world nearest the solar system is Chrysaor, a colonized moon of the hot jupiter 51 Pegasi b some 51 light-years away from our corner of the universe. There's something interesting in that since 51 Pegasi b, known informally but consistently as "Bellerophon", is the first exoplanet discovered orbiting a normal star, detected in 1995 some years after the unexpected discovery pulsar planets earlier in the decade. Is this just a coincidence? Is part of the gate network Earth-centered, more precisely centered on the areas of the galaxy known to transhumans? Does the location of the gate that may be one of the ones nearest Earth have any relationship to the density of the gate network in our galactic neighbourhood? This sort of thing probably has people thinking. This also gave me an idea. With very few exceptions (Luca II), almost all of the gate settings open onto destinations which can be precisely located relative to Earth, even mapped in some detail. I'm almost certain that transhuman astronomers would have known of Chrysaor's existence before that world's gate settings were discovered: Bellerophon is just too prominent a target, astronomically and historically, for a substantial moon not to have been found. (This assumes that it is a substantial moon, which may be open to question. Orbiting 0.05 AU from its sun, can Bellerophon even retain a moon?) With the very extensive infrastructure in space predating the fall, transhumanity knew much, much more about the galactic neighbourhood that we could have imagined possible before Bellerophon's discovery. The re-analysis of data in light of discoveries from extrasolar destinations may be very fruitful. The astronomical observatories of the solar system could also have useful implications for the exoworlds. While the resolution might be low, with sufficient information about the locations of different Gate-reachable destinations astronomical observatories back in the solar system should be able to image these planets. It could provide useful historical data ("What was Droplet's climate like three thousand years ago?" "Happily it's three thousand light years away! Let's take a look right now.") The potential is there for the observatories to determine whether or not the Gates open onto actually existing reality as opposed to some sort of simulspace. They seem to do so locally, with information apparently having been transferred at effectively FTL speeds between gates in the solar system that can be made to link up to each other. Might things, somehow, operate differently on interstellar scales? It's too soon to find out: a signal sent from Chrysoar as soon as that world was reached would be only something like one-sixth of the distance to the solar system. Thoughts?
Arenamontanus Arenamontanus's picture
Re: Astronomical observation of Gatecrasher destinatiions?
The resolution of telescopes depends on their baseline. So in EP it should be easily possible to set up telescopes with receivers more than an AU apart. A 1 AU telescope using visible light can see objects larger than 8 km at one lightyear distance. A 100 AU telescope (across the solar system) can see 83 meter objects at one lightyear, or 8 km objects out to 100 lightyears. So it would be able to see 4 km objects at 51 Pegasi. The main limiting factor is to collect enough light: the number of photons you get from your target at these distances is so small that you need enormous lightbuckets or to collect for a long time. For example, that 8 km object, if it shines with 1000 W/m^2 in optical wavelengths (a brightly sunlit object) it sends off 2*10^29 photons per second. At a distance of 50 light years they are spread out over a spherical area of 1.7*10^36 meters - you get one photon every 14 million square meter per second. So that telescope, assuming it has an opening of 100 meters and an area of 10,000 square meters, will catch one photon every 20 minutes or so. In principle it could form a picture from this if you wait long enough, but it is going to be very, very grainy. Detecting planets (good contrast against dark background, large size) is definitely doable this way out to vast distances. Figuring out their overall climate is probably not too hard, since you can just average together all light from them. Making maps is probably hopeless more than a few tens of lightyears away.
Extropian
Herbo Herbo's picture
Re: Astronomical observation of Gatecrasher destinatiions?
rfmcdonald wrote:
*snip* The potential is there for the observatories to determine whether or not the Gates open onto actually existing reality as opposed to some sort of simulspace. *snip*
This is a tangential reply so I'll be brief. I hadn't really given this concept much thought but what a great bit of story generating conspiracy theory that could be! Some of the gates actually transport individuals to physical locations in the universe...but maybe others simply take everything apart and virtually reassemble it in some extremely complex simulaspace that was constructed by the TITANs as something of a "test run"? It would make gate locations opening on worlds previously studied from earth such as Bellerophon (and thus learned of by the TITANs on their take-off) likely candidates for experimental TITAN tech. The question that remains is "which gates are actual portals, and which are something else." dun dun DUNNNN. Okay I'm done, back to the topic at hand.
Extrasolar Angel Extrasolar Angel's picture
Re: Astronomical observation of Gatecrasher destinations?
I think the authors have certain reservation about giving out astronomical data, since they like to stick to some more scientific facts, and are unwilling to speculate about our exoplanet neighbours. This is somewhat difficult to combine with the idea of the setting being set in a future at least a century from ours, since it is probable that we will have mapped out stellar neighbourhood within a decade or two and even direct imagining of planets in nearby star systems is not out of the question using today's technology. See also www.oamp.fr/lise/publis/pedrettiAA00.pdf And my idea for EP universe project that could be worked on to map Galaxy's life http://eclipsephase.com/galactic-life-imager Also with EP technology missions like FOCAL can be used taking advantage of Sun's gravity lensing http://www.centauri-dreams.org/?p=785 http://www.snolab.ca/public/JournalClub/alex2.pdf
[I]Raise your hands to the sky and break the chains. With transhumanism we can smash the matriarchy together.[/i]
Axel the Chimeric Axel the Chimeric's picture
Re: Astronomical observation of Gatecrasher destinations?
There was a time when I tried to figure out how immensely large a telescope would need to be to view the surface details of an exoplanet. I'm not sure now if I ever found an answer, but I seem to remember doing so. Given the astonishing amount of construction tools and materials available in EP, could anyone possibly offer insight as to whether this would be possible? Yes, I'm aware I'm talking about a telescope with a receiving area thousands of kilometers or more in radius, but when you're immortal and wealthy, what else are you gonna do with your time?
Extrasolar Angel Extrasolar Angel's picture
Re: Astronomical observation of Gatecrasher destinations?
Axel the Chimeric wrote:
There was a time when I tried to figure out how immensely large a telescope would need to be to view the surface details of an exoplanet. I'm not sure now if I ever found an answer, but I seem to remember doing so. Given the astonishing amount of construction tools and materials available in EP, could anyone possibly offer insight as to whether this would be possible?
I think it depends on where it is placed. The gravity lensing would probably allow this. The Hypertelescope idea covers this: http://nextbigfuture.com/2010/04/hypertelescope-specifications-and.html
Quote:
a 100-pixel image of a planet twice the width of Earth some 16.3 light years away would require the elements making up a space telescope array to be more than 43 miles apart. Such pictures of exoplanets could make out details such as rings, clouds, oceans, continents, and perhaps even hints of forests or savannahs. Long-term monitoring could reveal seasonal shifts, volcanic events, and changes in cloud cover. * To resolve 30 foot objects looking 4.37 light years away the elements making up a telescope array would have to cover a distance roughly 400,000 miles wide, or almost the Sun's radius. The area required to collect even one photon a year in light reflected off such a planet is some 60 miles wide. To determine motion of 2 feet per minute — and that the motion you’re seeing is not due to errors in observation — the area required to collect the needed photons would need to be some 1.8 million miles wide.
I am not sure if you can combine this with Sun Gravity lensing, but I guess, you could(I am just a space enthusiast not an expert though) http://www.oamp.fr/lise/seminaires/imagesLabeyrieFormationFlight.pdf This paper above gives different examples of telescope sizes and available resolution using concepts available today. In general it seems likely that within EP universe you could have mapped a lot of Galaxy and its exoplanets. Mapping solar neighbourhood seems possible as well. Btw: I think a topic on possible astronomy projects in EP and space engineering projects would be a good one.
[I]Raise your hands to the sky and break the chains. With transhumanism we can smash the matriarchy together.[/i]
rfmcdonald rfmcdonald's picture
Re: Astronomical observation of Gatecrasher destinations?
Agreed. I'm a fan of [I]2300AD[/I], a setting which was drawn up in the 1980s using the latest information about the stars nearest Earth to detail dozens of planetary systems. Little did anyone know that, just a couple of years after GDW stopped supporting the [I]2300AD[/I], astronomy would develop to the point where we'd actually start discovering planets orbiting those same stars. (The American colony planet of Ellis, at AC+48 1595-89 or Gliese 623, now has a brown dwarf of 0.09 solar masses orbiting its star, too. Fortunately it's orbiting outside Ellis' orbit ...) Honestly, if you want to create a realistic SF space setting in a recognizably human future that won't by outdated as soon as we image the Tau Ceti system in kilometric detail (the millimetric resolution will come later, just after the live Twitter feed), Eclipse Phase's solution is the best one. "The planetary system is thousands of light years away, one of the many many we'd imaged in low detail before we got the FTL technology."
BlackJaw BlackJaw's picture
Re: Astronomical observation of Gatecrasher destinations?

I've put a little bit of thought into the idea of observing worlds that are accessible via gate travel. Or more precisely, observing their stars (which are a lot easier to make out than implied evidence for planets.)

Somewhere in Gatecrashing is a note about one exo-colony getting a distress call or fragmented ego transmission from another world 5 light years away. Apparently a gate crasher from years early died on that world and his ego spent some time at (near) light speed as a neutrino(? ) burst before luckily reaching a receiver on a much more recent colony in another solar system.

The idea got me thinking about some Exo-colony with an orbital observatory setup managing to catch the glimpse of a neighboring solar system experiencing a purging by some ETI event/weapon. Maybe something like the sun-spiking in Arthur C. Clarke's Sunstorm novel. The observatory can pick it up because it's a nice rig they have, and it's the other solar system's sun. Maybe the event happened 100 years ago (IE: 100 light years away). More interestingly, the solar system has Pandora gate, and explorers there can see the ruins of the civilization.

As a plot point, evidence (from earth's observatories, or maybe again from some other exo-planet observatory) might show that something similar is on it's way towards Earth's Solar system, crawling along a some pace slower than the speed of light. Maybe it was launched by the ETI after it detected Earth's first real radio transmission, so it's been en-route for hundreds of years? Maybe it's got only decades before it reaches our solar system and spikes our sun? Maybe it has a gate on it and the players can visit, and try to stop it. Hell, they might visit it well before they find out what it is.

I'd still need to work out some math on the travel time/speed/distance issues to make the time scale(s ) work. I'd also need to pick a radio broadcast. The first radio broadcast(s ) might work, although it would be weak. Alternatively it could be possible to pick one of our more deliberate alien contact attempts where we beamed information about ourselves towards nearby stars. One real disturbing idea, if the players enter the weapon via a gate and find evidence of it's purpose, is to steal a page from Contact and use Hitler's 1936 Olympics opening speech.

If the math gives me trouble, I can adjust the time scale system by making FTL Communications involved (like Quantum Entangled probes seeded by the ETI for just such a purpose.)

I also have some interesting ideas about the nature of an ETI weapon. It involves a Tesseract shaped complex wrapped around a singularity. I have to imagine dropping a decent sized black hole into the Sun would be a viable away to ruin our solar system.

crizh crizh's picture
Re: Astronomical observation of Gatecrasher destinations?
I thought it would be fun to do that the opposite way around. Build your observatory 51 lights years away and point it at Earth. It would be a fantastic opportunity to recover historical transmissions that were lost in the Fall.
Trust the Computer. The Computer is your friend.
Lord High Munchkin Lord High Munchkin's picture
Re: Astronomical observation of Gatecrasher destinations?
Oh, we managed to retrieve your ego lost in the Fall at our distant observatory facility last week... so what have you, "Mr Fork", been doing for the last decade or so?
crizh crizh's picture
Re: Astronomical observation of Gatecrasher destinations?
I so wish I had chosen Lord High Munchkin as my non de plume. Much jealousy.
Trust the Computer. The Computer is your friend.