Conceptually and mechanically, I *think* I know how players are supposed to be able to use a favor to receive information... My problem is on the GM side, trying to figure out how to get from point A) Player ask to try networking for info, to B) Player has used a Level-N favor after successfully receiving said info...
My problem is that I don't want to give away a lot of meta-knowlege to the players, but I also don't want to present them with the bill, as it were, after the fact.
How would you deal with this situation:
A player wants to find out information on a mark he is going to attempt to steal from. He does not know it, but that mark is a secretly a Triad middle-man. It should be a level 1 favor to find out his habits and maybe some dirt on him that can be used to the player's advantage... but it would be a level 2 or maybe 3 favor to dig deep enough to discover his gangster secrets.
Here are my options as GM so far...
Option 1: I present the player with the option to call in a level 1 or level 3 favor, he now knows that if he does level 1, there is definitely something more going on that he doesn't know about yet.
Option 2: I have him do a networking test and based on his MOS give him more or less information but also ding him for the appropriate level favor after the fact.
Option 3: If he succeeds on his level 1 roll, I hint at possible black market ties, and if pressed, say it will be a level 3 favor to get the info.
Thoughts? Help?
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Handling info gathering via networking favors?
Thu, 2011-10-27 18:26
#1
thelabmonkey
Handling info gathering via networking favors?
Fri, 2011-10-28 13:00
#2
Re-Laborat
Re: Handling info gathering via networking favors?
I'd handle it via Option 2, personally. I find that in the case of a lot of social rolls it is to the GM's advantage to roll out of players' sight, as a side note. Not every social failure has immediately obvious results.
Fri, 2011-10-28 13:24
#3
Tyrnis
Re: Handling info gathering via networking favors?
While good in theory, the problem with hidden roles in practice is that a player always has the OOC option to spend moxie. While I suppose you can ask in advance if they'd like to spend moxie in the event of a failure or a critical failure, even then you're still telling them the outcome if you don't ask them to spend the moxie point...particularly with rolls whose failures aren't immediately obvious, it wouldn't be appropriate to not tell the player they've had to spend it, IMO.
Fri, 2011-10-28 15:19
#4
Smokeskin
Re: Handling info gathering via networking favors?
You talk to small time players you get small time or unreliable info. You ask high rollers, they might come back with something good. If a high roller checks something for you and he uncovers something nasty, it will cost you a favor of relevant level. You can't just go "hey I know that you went through some trouble and risk but F U".
In many cases, I don't see why the players can't know something is going to cost a big favor though. Is it any different than being offered some solid dirt for 1000 credits?
Fri, 2011-10-28 16:26
#5
Re-Laborat
Re: Handling info gathering via networking favors?
"Would you like to burn moxie if this roll fails and moxie'll turn it around, yes/no?" then track moxie expenditure yourself (unless, obviously, it's their last point and they need to know 'you've got no fallback now').
But yes, it is problematic. This is actually one of the things that bothers me the most about the EP system, though, you're right. It's a troublesome thing to do hidden rolls that a player can in theory change, and the social stuff is exactly the kind of thing where occasionally the outcome may not be apparent depending upon how many levels of conniving bastidge an NPC has been assigned.
Sat, 2011-10-29 02:35
#6
Smokeskin
Re: Handling info gathering via networking favors?
Does anything break if they can't use moxie on secret rolls?
Sat, 2011-10-29 09:26
#7
Xagroth
Re: Handling info gathering via networking favors?
Yes and no. No, because plenty of games don't have anything like Moxie: you fail a roll, that's it, live with it. Yes, because the Moxie is what tends to differenciate the most the players from NPC's, it's the luck of failing but getting things done anyway.
Personally, being the GM if I do a secret roll I would decide if the moxie point was spent or not, and then tell the player. It's unfair, yes, but not because I am usurping the player's decision, but because I know if that roll is critical or not, if it will ease the game or not, and if that point would be wasted or not.
Sat, 2011-10-29 14:55
#8
Re-Laborat
Re: Handling info gathering via networking favors?
Not entirely true. NPCs meant to be serious opfors can have Moxie as well.
Tue, 2011-11-01 07:18
#9
Xagroth
Re: Handling info gathering via networking favors?
What you call "NPC's with moxie" I call "GM's characters" or "antagonists" ^^. But yeah, you are right.
Tue, 2011-11-01 19:15
#10
thelabmonkey
Re: Handling info gathering via networking favors?
If the players are approached by someone who has info and wants to sell it to them, I guess that's true. But if they are the ones doing the asking, then I need to figure out if they are rolling networking against a level 1 or level 3 favor before I apply difficulty mods... and that's where it gets tricksy.
So maybe option 2 is the best and have them roll, but do calculations for both favor levels. If they roll well enough for the higher of the two, then they pay for that favor and get the better info...
Wed, 2011-11-02 00:03
#11
Quincey Forder
Re: Handling info gathering via networking favors?
I see two reasons for that:
-hide the true valor or the information. That will make the paranoid sides of any player work double, wondering exactly what this information is worth. I used a similar tactic in Cyberpunk 3.0 with the veracity index. it is extremely handy for manipulations driven plot hooks
-some information broker would probably try to milk all they can. they might have known the info all along, but when the pc's ask for it, they can go "amigo, do you know what you're asking of me? But aaah, because it's you, I guess I can call in some favors and see what I can get. but you owe me, compadre! and I always get my due! capito?"
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Wed, 2011-11-02 08:52
#12
Xagroth
Re: Handling info gathering via networking favors?
Quincy, stop talking about something that never existed... Please ^^U
An information broker that tries to milk everything he can for every single piece of data would be a last resort for everybody in no time, so unless he can deal in information no one else can get, he will find soon enough that almost no one wanna make deals with him. An honest-to-god, you-pay-for-what-you-get fair info broker, on the other hand, might get much more. Specially if he throws some more data from time to time "free" (if the receiver of the data has some sense of honor or the like, it creates a debt. If not, the broker will give enough information to make him wanna buy more).
Of course, one needs to be really careful about what can the players find in the mesh and what they might need to go to an information broker.