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Building Valles-New Shanghai

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Jürgen Hubert Jürgen Hubert's picture
Building Valles-New Shanghai
My upcoming campaign will start out in Valles-New Shanghai, and spend considerable amounts of time there. Thus, I want to map out the basic layout of the city. And for that, I need to get a firmer grasp of the local topography - starting with where the city is actually located. The large Mars map in [i]Sunward[/i] is hard to read, but I suspect that it's [url=http://www.google.com/mars/#lat=-14.189837&lon=-41.072387&zoom=8]this Mesa[/url] where New Shanghai proper, Valles Center, and Little Shanghai is located. New Pittsburgh would then be located to the buff to the north - at a distance of 70 km! - and Nytrondheim to the east at a distance of 50 km. The Mesa itself has a length of a bit more than 25 km from East to West, and 15 km from North to South at its widest point - ultimately, that's not all that much room for expansion, so it is likely that New Pittsburgh - and especially Nytrondheim, given its lower elevation - will have more room for sprawl in the long run. Does that sound plausible? Or do you have better candidates for placing the city?
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Arenamontanus Arenamontanus's picture
Re: Building Valles-New Shanghai
Jürgen Hubert wrote:
And for that, I need to get a firmer grasp of the local topography - starting with where the city is actually located. The large Mars map in [i]Sunward[/i] is hard to read, but I suspect that it's [url=http://www.google.com/mars/#lat=-14.189837&lon=-41.072387&zoom=8]this Mesa[/url] where New Shanghai proper, Valles Center, and Little Shanghai is located.
Hmm, I always thought it was the bigger mesa complex north of the Chasma, http://www.google.com/mars/#lat=-11.329253&lon=-42.440185&zoom=7 either the full Mesa (bordered by Capri Chasma, Eos Chasma and Ganges Chasma to the north) or the southern part. The mesa you point at is pretty small. By the way, the old Building Extropia thread was great at fleshing out details and ideas for the place. I hope we can use this thread to also add local colour - the best sausage stand in New Pittsburgh, the secret clubs on the Bund, how the local transport system works, some of the cool media hangouts and some of the interesting/dangerous/important/strage locals.
Extropian
Jürgen Hubert Jürgen Hubert's picture
Re: Building Valles-New Shanghai
Arenamontanus wrote:
Hmm, I always thought it was the bigger mesa complex north of the Chasma, http://www.google.com/mars/#lat=-11.329253&lon=-42.440185&zoom=7 either the full Mesa (bordered by Capri Chasma, Eos Chasma and Ganges Chasma to the north) or the southern part. The mesa you point at is pretty small.
I don't think that area quite fits - the text in Sunward mentions that New Shanghai is located where "two rivers meet" and that the mesa will "one day be an island". The mesa I pointed out is surrounded by lots of low-lying terrain where rivers will likely build up, with the northern river likely carrying water from the entire length of Marineris!
Quote:
By the way, the old Building Extropia thread was great at fleshing out details and ideas for the place. I hope we can use this thread to also add local colour - the best sausage stand in New Pittsburgh, the secret clubs on the Bund, how the local transport system works, some of the cool media hangouts and some of the interesting/dangerous/important/strage locals.
By all means, go ahead. I plan to draw a map of the city (using Inkscape), and more detail is always good to fill it up. And there is no reason why this thread should only be of use to myself.
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Arenamontanus Arenamontanus's picture
Re: Building Valles-New Shanghai
Jürgen Hubert wrote:
Arenamontanus wrote:
Hmm, I always thought it was the bigger mesa complex north of the Chasma, http://www.google.com/mars/#lat=-11.329253&lon=-42.440185&zoom=7 either the full Mesa (bordered by Capri Chasma, Eos Chasma and Ganges Chasma to the north) or the southern part. The mesa you point at is pretty small.
I don't think that area quite fits - the text in Sunward mentions that New Shanghai is located where "two rivers meet" and that the mesa will "one day be an island". The mesa I pointed out is surrounded by lots of low-lying terrain where rivers will likely build up, with the northern river likely carrying water from the entire length of Marineris!
It is often hard to tell the intended scale of things on the Mars map in EP, so the "two rivers" could very well have been intended to be the chasmas themselves. The big problem is that you are unlikely to have much of a river anywhere in the uplands given the likely conditions. If there is any river it is going to be down in the blue chaotic terrain, possibly (if it is fed by rain created by moist air bumping into the chasma walls) starting at the south or north side of a chasma. I have a very hard time imagining much of a river forming that high up as your mesa lies (but then again, it is just as messy with the northern mesa too). I also have a hard time imagining the southern mesa as a potential island. Notice the colour of the surrounding elevation, and check the rest of the Mars map (I think it is ~0 km elevation). To make it an island you would need to flood most of Terra Arabia and almost turn Mons Olympus into an island. That is an insanely ambitious terraforming plan, and requires not just some ice but one or two icy Saturn moons to get enough water. BTW, I wonder whether Ashoka intends to become an underwater city as sea levels rise? Apropos general setting: rains on Mars tend to be pretty torrential when they happen. The atmosphere has a high scale height due to the low gravity, so clouds tend to be higher. When wet air bumps into a chasma side it rises and starts to rain or snow. Ice crystals have much more time and volume to build up as they are descending than on Earth, allowing both absurdly big snowflakes, really nasty hail and truly torrential rains. Just like in terrestrial badlands there is little vegetation to prevent erosion and slow down the water, so you get flash floods, wadis suddenly filling up and heavy landscaping. Around Valles there seems to be plenty of infrastructure and settlements, so there is also an active industry of snow/sandplows maintaining the roads, and plenty of roadworks all the time. Water and flood management probably has Japanese civil defense proportions. "A hailstorm is approaching the southeast sector, aerial traffic has been cancelled until further notice. On the ground, serious traffic disruption is expected on the G7 between Central and Nuevo Wuhan, and we are already seeing a bit of a jam. The landslide east of junction D473 has been patched but Valles Traffic Authority warns that only two lanes are open and the expected snow and ice will make the road risky. They also warn of a sanddrift north of Acron: if your vehicle is not rated for level II dust, do not use the G35. Thank you for listening to the Valles-New Shanghai Weather Feed. Here are a few words from our sponsors..."
Extropian
Jürgen Hubert Jürgen Hubert's picture
Re: Building Valles-New Shanghai
Now I am getting confused again. I re-read the section on Valles-New Shanghai, and found that the location I selected can't be the right one after all - the higher elevation of New Pittsburgh is to the [i]east[/i], while the lower elevation of Nytrondheim is to the [i]north[/i], and not the other way around as I had assumed. I've played around with the Mars layer of Google Earth, and there are two regions entitled "Eos" that have sufficiently low elevations - the Eos Chasma to the NE of my initial location, and the Eos Chaos to the SEE. Since the Eos Chasma is depicted as being far to the east of Valles-New Shanghai, I am going with the latter. But where in this area are decent mesas where "slow-moving rivers" could trisect them - with a higher elevation in the east, and a lower in the north?
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Arenamontanus Arenamontanus's picture
Re: Building Valles-New Shanghai
Jürgen Hubert wrote:
I've played around with the Mars layer of Google Earth, and there are two regions entitled "Eos" that have sufficiently low elevations - the Eos Chasma to the NE of my initial location, and the Eos Chaos to the SEE. Since the Eos Chasma is depicted as being far to the east of Valles-New Shanghai, I am going with the latter. But where in this area are decent mesas where "slow-moving rivers" could trisect them - with a higher elevation in the east, and a lower in the north?
Hmm, maybe the trick is to assume at least one of them to be artificial? It wouldn't be too out of place to have a pump system bringing up water for a temperature and vegetation balancing river that isn't prone to misbehavior. Looking at the Coprates and Margaritifer regional maps http://planetarynames.wr.usgs.gov/images/mc18_mola.pdf http://planetarynames.wr.usgs.gov/images/mc19_mola.pdf (overall, check out http://planetarynames.wr.usgs.gov/Page/mars1to5mMOLA and http://planetarynames.wr.usgs.gov/Page/MARS/target I am starting to wonder whether Capri Mensa might be the place. It is large, it is surrounded by Capri and Eos Chasmae but not too high (my location Eos Mensa is probably pretty cold and windy).
Extropian
Jürgen Hubert Jürgen Hubert's picture
Re: Building Valles-New Shanghai
Arenamontanus wrote:
Hmm, maybe the trick is to assume at least one of them to be artificial? It wouldn't be too out of place to have a pump system bringing up water for a temperature and vegetation balancing river that isn't prone to misbehavior. Looking at the Coprates and Margaritifer regional maps http://planetarynames.wr.usgs.gov/images/mc18_mola.pdf http://planetarynames.wr.usgs.gov/images/mc19_mola.pdf (overall, check out http://planetarynames.wr.usgs.gov/Page/mars1to5mMOLA and http://planetarynames.wr.usgs.gov/Page/MARS/target I am starting to wonder whether Capri Mensa might be the place. It is large, it is surrounded by Capri and Eos Chasmae but not too high (my location Eos Mensa is probably pretty cold and windy).
I had thought of Capri Mensa as well... but there isn't much in the way of terrain that would make for two suitable riverbeds, as well as the other geographic limitations (higher across the eastern river, lower across the northern river). About the only place that could fit would be that outlier in the northwest of the Mensa...
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Arenamontanus Arenamontanus's picture
Re: Building Valles-New Shanghai
Just a little firm for Valles-New Shanghai: First Arc Recycling Demolitions/recycling/construction firm. The last ten years has seen tremendous change across the Valles-New Shanghai region, including the influx of many times the original population leading to a huge housing crisis, hypercorp-sponsored megascale engineering of new domes, new building technologies and economic chaos. If there is one thing that is always needed, it is a way to get rid of the old mistakes. First Arc is one among the many deconstruction firms that have profited greatly. First Arc maintains a fleet of demolitions robots and nanoswarms, dismantling everything from obsolete settlements to roads and neatly recycling valuable resources. While it started out as merely a demolitions company it has grown into a full “urban recycling solution”, allowing architects and engineers to rebuild using nearly all the original material. It works closely with construction firms like Fa Jing Engineering, Yili Habitronics and GMAC Valles, but also ecoengineering and terraforming firms such as Arbortech and Merah ke Hijau. One of the secrets of FAR’s success is the open and transparent structure of the company. While CEO Miriam Fraenkel is no extropian, she has cribbed some of their ideas on transparent modular corporations. The company consists of numerous internal units and projects bidding on internal markets for offers, encouraging employees to become stockholders in the company or in individual projects. It makes use of many indentured workers but is known for giving them relatively fair deals: the work is not too exciting and the morphs tend to be more industrial equipment than nice shells, but there are few cases where indentured workers feel they have been cheated (FAR currently is rated as 84% Green in JobRate by former employees). Although FAR might internally be fairly just, many outsiders does not welcome it when it arrives to recycle a neighborhood into a modern development or reshape the local ecosystem into the next stage biome. It regularly comes into contact and conflict with squatters, community activists, people trying to preserve the “historical treasures” of Mars and even some Barsoomians seeing them as the arm of the hypercorps. In such situations FAR likes to contract security firms on shorter or longer leases to provide security during work, but usually gets tarred for whatever the firms do or don’t do. Adventure possibilities FAR workers have access to heavy equipment, explosives and powerful disassembler swarms. This makes theft or hacking a serious risk. Characters in desperate need of something destructive to combat something dangerous might want to infiltrate FAR or even hijack demolitions equipment. Conversely, a series of thefts might be of Firewall interest since whoever is behind them is acquiring a pretty destructive arsenal. During routine demolitions to make way for a new development in the outskirts of New Pittsburgh FAR encounters something left from the Fall. It appears to be unexploded TITAN ordnance, and God knows what it could do. Firewall agents tipped off about the find must rush to ensure that it is handled safely and doesn’t end up the wrong hands. But the find might be stranger still: exactly what is Project Ozma’s interest here? Is the “TITAN weapon” actually an alien artifact? And how did it end up under a disused garage just outside Valles-New Shanghai? Contact is lost with a FAR work team recycling some remote flood control channels. They have been infected with the exsurgent virus, and now a group of heavily armored and very destructive synthmorphs are becoming alien monstrosities. Discovering this and stopping them might be a tough challenge in itself (especially since they seem to have decided to camp close to the Nyima Dam – a heavy assault might blow up the dam and connected aquifer, flooding some densely populated land in the chasmas below). But the real mystery is how they caught the virus in the first place – if a group of deconstructors working in the middle of safe Marineris can get it, then others could get it too. Did someone *deliberately* send them the virus? And why? There have been a few cases of “nail house” situations where everything but a lone holdout has been demolished. FAR as a company usually tries to follow their contract to the letter, but individual workers might be sympathetic and there are often public opinion supporting the nail house holdouts. A tense situation often develops where different groups might want to manipulate events to their advantage. A serious workplace accident has occurred where a “smart building” deconstructed itself prematurely, crushing several workers and a few outsiders. Safety inspectors descend on the scene, blocking further operations until they have investigated the cause. Some FAR workers really want to ensure their bonuses/stocks and hire the characters to investigate, hopefully speeding up the investigation. But the real cause might be a seething, long-running quarrel between two gangs of reinstantiated that by sheer chance found themselves working within the same company. Getting too nosy might lead to further “accidents” involving dangerous equipment. And the quarrel itself might date back to a pre-Fall conflict, a conflict where the truth could be somewhat damaging for other people who did much better after the Fall and now are in positions of relative power.
Extropian
Jürgen Hubert Jürgen Hubert's picture
Re: Building Valles-New Shanghai
Well, I guess if there is no good site on the topography map, I might as well make one up myself, somewhere in the Eos Chaos...
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Arenamontanus Arenamontanus's picture
Re: Building Valles-New Shanghai
Looking in Sunward, there is a mention that the river that bisects New Shanghai is the artificial river Ares. Some local colour: Rosary Square A quiet square in the Back-of-Bund district. Just behind the Bund lies a complex of office buildings and corporate spaces. Squeezed in among the blocky offices lies Our Lady of the Peace, a catholic church that is the oldest remaining on the planet (the archdiocese - later papacy - was moved to a much more imposing New Vatican structure down on the Bund). It is not very well visited but still maintained as a historical location - and perhaps as an investment, since the property value is quietly accelerating through the stratosphere. The square has two good cafés, catering to the office-workers of the neighbourhood. Shen Coffee on the south tries to imitate the ubiquitous pre-Fall franchise Míngxīng Deháizi, going for the nostalgic. Collateral Coffee on the north is a matter-of-fact modern café, providing whatever stimulants and social spaces the visitors need. If you are trying to meet somebody working at the Bund in a not so prominent position - secretaries, clerks, minor officials, paralegals, social club butlers, security guards, anybody who might be junior enough to be sent for a good cup of coffee - then this is a good place.
Extropian
Arenamontanus Arenamontanus's picture
Re: Building Valles-New Shanghai
Grand Lodge of Mars Condatis Chief Adept: “Very Honoured 3rd adept, what do you know of the Word?” 3rd Adept: “Peh, the Letter of Mars, of the Path joining Hod to Netzach, which also a Letter linked to Water, as Mars ruleth Water, and to Fire, as Mars ruleth Fire in Geburah.” 2nd Adept: “Mars in Peh, linketh the base of the Black Pillar to the Base of the White Pillar, and the converse of Mars is Jupiter – for Jupiter is Lord of Fire, but in Chesed he ruleth Water, balancing Mars in Geburah.” -Rite of the Pentagram and the Five Paths, Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn Hermetic order in Valles-New Shanghai. Belief in magic and the supernatural has never decreased in times of crisis - quite the opposite, no matter how technological the crises may be. While most people turn to old or new religions others seek to understand traditional esoteric knowledge. The Grand Lodge of Mars Condatis is a descendant of western hermeticism, tracing its ancestry back to the Renewed AMORC Caliphate fraternal order before the Fall, and through them back to Ordo Templi Orientis, the Golden Dawn, Freemasons and (mythically, at least) the Illuminati, Rosicrucians and ancient mystery schools. While there exists several similar lodges on Mars (and one on Venus), they have so far not been unified. There are ongoing debates about how (or even if) they could be unified under an Imperator into a single order, with different lodges making varying claims of authenticity and leadership. The grandmaster of the Grand Lodge is Gergo Bernát. In daily life he is a simspace designer, building customised environments for companies and glitterati, but all his spare time is spent running the Grand Lodge. He may not be the sharpest occulist around, but he is an efficient administrator who is good at networking and maintaining the hermetic mystique. Under him are a number of Adepti, who monitor and tutor members of the lower grades (Neophyte, Zelator, Theoricus, Practicus, Philosophus and Dominus Liminis). As members advance in understanding (often checked by tests) they are initiated into higher grades through solemn ceremonies. The Grand Lodge operates the Temple of Mars, a religious establishment located in Central. Inside a nondescript office building they have an outer office linked to an interior temple equipped for solemn hermetic ceremonies. While they prefer to perform these in person, for practical reasons much activity is online or done using AR. The Temple sells training in cabbala, visualization, meditation techniques, modern astrology, practical magic and many forms of esoteric philosophy. It can also provide services such as exorcisms, blessings and the makings of magickal talismans. The Temple is protected by Tyler, an old and somewhat crusty security AI, and Veli-Matti Virtanen, the resident computer security/hacker who also doubles as AR maintainer. The order does not see modern science as incompatible with a magical worldview, just an incomplete take on the whole. Reports about strange events before, during and after the Fall are taken as evidence that there are indeed more things in heaven and earth than is commonly acknowledged. Some members have pursued independent investigations into reports of “supernatural” phenomena, including exsurgents and asyncs. In fact, the order is “aware” of asyncs – they have always believed it is possible to awaken tremendous powers with the right training or conditions. The order employs “modern astrology” – as mankind spread into space the traditional form of astrology became increasingly absurd: what does it mean if a child is born on the Moon with Earth in Sagittarius, or has Jupiter covering nearly half the constellations? Among the precursors to the order there was a great debate. The model that the order accepts assigns complex metaphysical “forcefields” to the different planets and moons, affecting things according to the angles they make with each other. Within the order there are still vigorous debates between the formalists (who claim the pattern is explained by complex mathematics, and that this math reveals deep insights) and computationalists (who have a more empirical bent, trying to refine astrology by correlating news and mesh sentiment analysis software with planetary positions). They all agree that the transition in the Fall from Earth as the centre of humanity to Mars as the centre is a clear indication that we have fully entered the Aeon of Horus. Contrary to conspiracy theory, the order does not have branches at the highest levels of government or business – freemasonry went out of style a long time ago. While the order does have a handful of socially prominent members the vast majority are just normal Martians interested in the esoteric. That doesn’t stop them from thinking they do have more influence than they do. This is especially true because of the belief in the “The Secret Chiefs”, unseen powers that have been guiding mankind – and especially the order – behind the scenes. Some members like Veli-Matti are full-blown conspiracy theorists, trying to map the secret forces influencing the solar system. Adventure possibilities The order is very interested in gaining async abilities, and if they figure out the truth about the Watts-MacLeod virus they will likely seek it out and deliberately experiment with infecting volunteers with it (while of course doing sensible purifications and wardings of course, you can never be too sure). Firewall agents might become involved in trying to track down attempted virus smuggling or stopping these experiments. Alternatively, members of the inner circles might successfully make themselves asyncs, framing their new powers as a vindication of their beliefs. An investigator might come across people who do indeed seem to have magickal powers. The problem might be that not everybody gets the right strain An order that believes in secret chiefs might be open for clever manipulation by con-men, infiltrators and other unscrupulous characters. While it would be hard to turn it into a dangerous tool, it is always useful to have people willing to run errands motivated by mystical fervour. All it takes is to make truly convincing “occult” events, using technology, psi or good old-fashioned manipulation. However, an infiltrator might discover that there really are secret chiefs – maybe some other manipulator beat them to it, or there is something out there that really is using the order for some strange purpose. An order member was threatened by some local Triad gangsters. Feeling desperate he threatened them back with a curse – which came true! Through a very unlikely accident there was a medical malfunction and his morph had a heart attack. Now the member is in real trouble. The Triad is superstitious and believes he really has some form of power – and they plan to get back at him, or force him to work for them. The member cannot go to the order for help, since his curse broke their rules against black magic. So he seeks out some of his friends, the PCs, to try to find a way out.
Extropian
Xagroth Xagroth's picture
Re: Building Valles-New Shanghai
Sorry for the necro, but I would like to know if you found some useful images to show the players of the different zones of New Shanghai, photos/drawings that can be showed to them instead of reading the long descriptions every now and then. I say this because I'm starting a new campaign in the Valles-New Shaghai zone, of course XD. Right now, my players are a social character in a ruster morph, a tech wiz AGI in a masked steel morph, and a corp-tied character with a Hello Kitty rifle and most likely a customized Olympian morph adapted to Mars.
Arenamontanus Arenamontanus's picture
Re: Building Valles-New Shanghai
Necromancy is always fun, and I would love to see more stuff on Valles. Away from my renderin computer at the moment, but it would be fun to make some pictures.
Extropian
Axel the Chimeric Axel the Chimeric's picture
Re: Building Valles-New Shanghai
Last time I saw a grave dug like this, they were checking for bacterial DNA in plague victim's teeth. Just wanted to throw that in there, I'll contribute something meaningful at a less unnatural hour.
Xagroth Xagroth's picture
Re: Building Valles-New Shanghai
There is no need for rendered pictures (though that could help a lot), I was thinking more in the way of real photos or drawings of what the five domes look like inside (for example, one was a recreation of the Shanghai waterfront, so a photo of that could suffice, other is quite similar to an old European city, and other used an architectural style so blocky that old comunists buildings in the USSR looked stylized). Making alterations to the photos to show some subtle reminds of the transhuman setting could be good too, like adding some parts of the dome showing between clouds in the sky, adding a little more blue, I think it was, to the color of the photo, or red dust... things like that.
Jay Dugger Jay Dugger's picture
Re: Building Valles-New Shanghai
Please give the latitude and longitude of the areographic features you mention for the readers' sakes. It helps to have names and links to source imagery, but unique identifiers for places have their own advantages. * Valles-New Shanghai Location Candidate #1 (-14°, -40°) - From Jürgen Hubert's original post * Valles-New Shanghai Location Candidate #2 (-11.1°, -42.5°) - From Arenamontanus's counter-suggestion and his KML file ** Capri Chasma (-9.79°, -43.3°) ** Eos Chasma (-11.97°,-39.7°) ** Ganges Chasma (-7.91°, -48.1°) * Valles-New Shanghai Location Candidate #3 - From Jürgen Hubert - Eos Chasma (-11.97°,-39.7°) * Valles-New Shanghai Location Candidate #4 - From Jürgen Hubert - Eos Chaos (-16.62°, -46.9°) * Valles-New Shanghai Location Candidate #5 - From Arenamontanus - Capri Mensa (-13.85°, -47.4°) Man...I really should've spent that time working on my own campaign. Must... break... Google... Earth... trance...
Sometimes the delete key serves best.
Xagroth Xagroth's picture
Re: Building Valles-New Shanghai
Jay, that's not really relevant, what I meant I want to show my players is not really a map of Mars (which is useful if they wanna travel and you wanna them to have an idea of the route), but some snapshots of the zones inside the domes where they go. Also, I think Valles-New Shanghai is located in Sunward's Mars map (in the Valles Marinieris, south of the Gages Chasm). Edit: I've been working in Working! (that's a pun, if there has been one! XD), an anime about a japanese family restaurant and the employees as a bar/restaurant in a building near the Mars University in New Shanghai, with some extra bits (the owner, Otoo, is a Barsoomian courier, while one of the cooks, Söma, is an information broker). The restaurant is called, of course, Wagnaria XD. I also made a disco (wathever the english name is for a building with several floors devoted to high-volume music, dancing, alcohol and such) in Nytrondheim that is also a cover business for a group of ultimates in the mercenary bussiness (and also they have a darkcast and morphs stored for Ultimates bussiness). I was going to call this The Atlantis, as a reference to CP2020's Night City's classical disco... but I decided for an african theme (panther/tigre/lioness security pods...), so I'll go for Savannah. I think I'll make a meeting place per each of the four neighborhoods the players can access freely (Valles Center is... not advisable XD), but I'm not sure about what to make in New Pittsburg (Little Shanghai... well, it will be disgusting to say the least). Oh, I'll try to get it in english for next week and post it here. Most likely, the Savannah will be considered a little overkill...